Big changes for the Nexus Mod Manager and the introduction of Tannin42, our new head of NMM development

[elezraita]

I am excited and optimistic about the upcoming Nexus Mod Organizer. I love MO and use it for all Beth games but FO4 and Morrowind (obviously), but one thing that annoyed me was the 32-bit limitation with MO1. That obviously will no longer be an issue. Hopefully, we can keep the virtual installation though in NMO.

[Pazuzu156]

In response to post #43223435.

turulo wrote: I use a customized version of the NMM (previous version) because I needed some UI related bugs that annoyed me.

So I have a little knowledge of the internals and I can tell you (although you probably miss this post) that the UI programming has way too many hands involved. Things are done multiple times differently because I bet that different people wanted something and didn't know that others had already implemented the same in another place.

All the UI code in NMM got too complex for what it is really (a few docking panes with grids and toolbars). So in my opinion, what you need is to switch to something more declarative like WPF to simplify your UI.

Please take that into consideration since WPF will allow to reuse the mod/omod/fomod related code that you already have (all that is not UI related) and also will be more simple to maintain. And should you feel the UI needs to be changed afterwards, well with WPF you can change it without changing the code most of the time.

I swapped to WPF mid development on my tool for Mass Effect. Safe to say, I've never gone back to WinForms. And with the ability to extend/create controls in an XML styled markup language, it's like web development..only for the desktop :D

[Phacteria]

I like the thought of an MO-NMM, but I'd like if Wrye could be contacted and work out an MO-WB hybrid.

I honestly never really liked the Virtual Install idea, and I think Wrye Bash is probably the best mod manager there is, aside from compactibility and not being able to download directly from Nexus.

 

I like the thought of mods for mod managers, and I hope that maybe I can see a Wrye Bash - NMM hybrid someday.

But the best part probably would be that we can get an "Unofficial NMM Patch". *laugh*

 

[turulo]

In response to post #43223435. #43223890 is also a reply to the same post.

turulo wrote: I use a customized version of the NMM (previous version) because I needed some UI related bugs that annoyed me.

So I have a little knowledge of the internals and I can tell you (although you probably miss this post) that the UI programming has way too many hands involved. Things are done multiple times differently because I bet that different people wanted something and didn't know that others had already implemented the same in another place.

All the UI code in NMM got too complex for what it is really (a few docking panes with grids and toolbars). So in my opinion, what you need is to switch to something more declarative like WPF to simplify your UI.

Please take that into consideration since WPF will allow to reuse the mod/omod/fomod related code that you already have (all that is not UI related) and also will be more simple to maintain. And should you feel the UI needs to be changed afterwards, well with WPF you can change it without changing the code most of the time.

Pazuzu156 wrote: I swapped to WPF mid development on my tool for Mass Effect. Safe to say, I've never gone back to WinForms. And with the ability to extend/create controls in an XML styled markup language, it's like web development..only for the desktop :D

Exactly, it's less code and better code. And it forces you to think in model-view-controller, which keeps everything at bay when a project grows.

[Phacteria]

In response to post #43213960. #43215115, #43215850, #43216775, #43216980, #43223725 are all replies on the same post.

darthbdaman wrote: We'll see how this turns out I guess. This makes me very uncomfortable

NMM has never been a particularly stable or powerful mod manager, and has only gotten worse with new features added to ape MO. It is slow, crashes a lot, and just does a worse job than MO at basicallly everything. If MO supported more games, I wouldn't even have NMM installed. If I do have to use an older manager, I use FOMM or OBMM, as they are more functional at this point. I don't mean to harangue anyone, and it is far better than anything I could write, but it simply withers in comparison to the alternatives.

MO, on the other hand, is an amazing piece of software that I couldn't live without anymore, and it will be a shame to see it die. Hopefully this new NMM (NNMM?) will draw far more heavily from MO than old NMM. MO is simply a sleaker, faster, and far more stable piece of software that I actually enjoy using (unlike NMM).

I'll try to remain hopeful, but I have some serious doubts about this decision. It will depend heavily upon the inspiration taken for the final product.

silencer711 wrote: It depends wholesomely on what you make[NMM] it do. For some of us, we install mods in a specific order, from a personally curated list and don't mess with it from that point because our end goal has been achieved.

I have no experience with MO, I'd love to try it but currently I have a stable, organized 122 mod install with NMM 62.1

Credit is due however, to the albeit aging NMM, as it is an ORIGINAL piece of software that sort of came first from where others have built upon it or based their own managers upon its features and abilities.
Not speaking for Tannin42, but if I was going to create a mod manager from scratch I would look to others as a template, write my own code to do the same and just add features from everyone else's mod managers to make mine the ultimate one lol. You gotta start somewhere.

-Keep in mind: If the author of your favorite mod manager is now head of NMM development, you can expect the new NMM to present all the best things about NMM and all the best things from MO... no need to have serious doubts here. :)

darthbdaman wrote: We'll see. MO is an invaluable tool as an author and a user. Having it regress towards an NMM feature set isn't exactly ideal from my position. It could turn out fine, but I will reserve judgement

Biohazard186 wrote: Considering the developer of MO is the lead developer of the new NMM I wouldn't worry one bit. Lead developers are generally in charge of the actual development process and philosophy. I expect we'll see a "best of both worlds" outcome with the new NMM.

Charmareian wrote: MO is the best manager by far. I don't have to say more because what you said mirrors my opinion.

silencer711 wrote: @darthbdaman: Yea I feel ya. I have a desktop that runs my playthrough mods, and a laptop that I create mods on. I understand a mod author's point of view any day.

On the other hand, I hope that we can have a MO-Wrye Bash hybrid.
Wrye Bash has all the NMM functions, is more stable and offers gimmicks that work. It also makes making installers not as that important as you can customize your installation without it. It's also multilingual.
I'd love the best of the old paired with the best of the new.

[elezraita]

In response to post #43210580. #43210750, #43221460 are all replies on the same post.

IceBox wrote: Based on the "complaints" coming up already, wouldn't it be a good idea to simply offer two seperate views like "simple" and "advanced".
Simple covers the basics like turning mods on and off, basic load order etc. like NMM currently does while the advanced view offers things like managing data overrides etc.?

People with a low amount of conflicts can just stick to the simple view and be happy and not worry about which file gets overwritten by what, while more advanced users can fiddle with their overrides etc.

Simple might just look like OBMM/FOMM while advanced looks along the lines of NMM/MO?

Just and idea :D

Tannin42 wrote: Basically we plan to build the new mod manager very modular and extensible.
The base application will then be a very simple tool with only the necessary functions. When you need an advanced feature you add the appropriate extensions.
A moddable mod manager basically.
This way you get a smoother learning curve and the UI isn't as cluttered with features you never use.

But that's only the vision, how much of that we can realize remains to be seen.

AbsentLunchbox wrote: That's an interesting concept! While I've only ever used NMM and not MO, and with my current interest in the learning and understanding of modding game content, I think this is a fantastic idea if possible to implement successfully. And congratulations on the new position! Glad to see another passionate member of the Nexus come along! :)

Give me all the modules! I need them alllllll!

[Phacteria]

In response to post #43210580. #43210750, #43221460, #43224135 are all replies on the same post.

IceBox wrote: Based on the "complaints" coming up already, wouldn't it be a good idea to simply offer two seperate views like "simple" and "advanced".
Simple covers the basics like turning mods on and off, basic load order etc. like NMM currently does while the advanced view offers things like managing data overrides etc.?

People with a low amount of conflicts can just stick to the simple view and be happy and not worry about which file gets overwritten by what, while more advanced users can fiddle with their overrides etc.

Simple might just look like OBMM/FOMM while advanced looks along the lines of NMM/MO?

Just and idea :D

Tannin42 wrote: Basically we plan to build the new mod manager very modular and extensible.
The base application will then be a very simple tool with only the necessary functions. When you need an advanced feature you add the appropriate extensions.
A moddable mod manager basically.
This way you get a smoother learning curve and the UI isn't as cluttered with features you never use.

But that's only the vision, how much of that we can realize remains to be seen.

AbsentLunchbox wrote: That's an interesting concept! While I've only ever used NMM and not MO, and with my current interest in the learning and understanding of modding game content, I think this is a fantastic idea if possible to implement successfully. And congratulations on the new position! Glad to see another passionate member of the Nexus come along! :)

elezraita wrote: Give me all the modules! I need them alllllll!

I'm dying for the Unofficial NMM Patch.
BTW, can you guys get in contact with Wrye and the Wrye Bash dev team?
An MO-WB hybrid woulf be nice.

[Phacteria]

In response to post #43223195.

Nephenee13 wrote: >Ctrl-F "Wrye"

>0 results

*sigh*

Same here...
Please, Nexus... Make WB - MO happen...

[deanoman]

This is lovely, LOVELY news!

 

Here are some features I hope they consider since they are rewriting it from the ground up:

 

* Support for foreign languages

* Fully scalable, customizable and theme-able UI

* Support for the latest technologies with Windows 7, 10 [maybe C# WPF]

* Clean code using CodeRush (https://www.devexpress.com/Products/CodeRush/) or Resharper (https://www.jetbrains.com/resharper/)

* Ability to switch between (Simple) and (Advanced) view

* Ability to backup installed mods to a backup set

* High quality game banners for each detected game and a slick interface transition

* A more obvious login function

* Better multi-stream networking for mod download handling

* Integration with the Nexus website built into the client, maybe hot-files only or top 5 for the current game

 

Best of luck to Tannin and the team! :D

[Gefri]

The pursuit of money leaves destroyed beauty in it's wake. Bean counters can only aspire to be as likeable as Undead Radrats. (Ok, I made those up.) The beauty of OMM, FOMM, NMM, and MO was that they were created and operated by enthusiasts who simply loved their work. Now one of those artists, one of the greatest, does the same work, but this time for the buck. And so commercialism has/will destroy NMM.