Is there anything similar to "don't call me settler"?

[crawe1x]

@NCRForever: I don't know, it's a complete mystery. I've got 150+ mods, including DCMS, BS, and a fair few other mods that are settler/settlement focused, but I've never experienced any major problems with settlements.

 

Thinking about it further... Maybe it's not Better Settlers - in general terms - causing the conflict. It's been many months since I last updated BS, but could it be a specific setting within that mod? You know, like when you choose the options in the FOMOD? Maybe one of the specific options is causing a conflict. Maybe me and cossayos chose a version that doesn't conflict with DCMS, while you chose one that does? From memory, I have the clean faces/mortal version of that mod (can't remember what other options I chose at the time). Anyway, just an idea. I'm probably talking crap - honestly, I haven't a clue how some of these mods work under the hood.

Edited December 14, 2016 by crawe1x

[NCRForever]

No. You're not talking crap. Maybe it's because I install mods manually. I don't know. But, for me, DCMS is mandatory. So, if a mod causes issues with it, I remove it.

[crawe1x]

No. You're not talking crap. Maybe it's because I install mods manually. I don't know. But, for me, DCMS is mandatory. So, if a mod causes issues with it, I remove it.

 

Yep, on that we can most certainly agree. I've decided against installing a fair few top mods because I suspected they might conflict with DCMS.

[cossayos]

No. You're not talking crap. Maybe it's because I install mods manually. I don't know. But, for me, DCMS is mandatory. So, if a mod causes issues with it, I remove it.

 

Which never happened to me, using dozens of mods simulateneously. So, to use your choice of words, maybe you're the one talking crap. First, by installing manually, secondly by not updating DCMS when an update was available, and thirdly because you blame your problems on one mod, just because disabling it seemed to take care of your issues. Without any regards to the possibility that another one of your rather peculiar choice of mods may have caused a problem with an outdated version of DCMS and/or better settlers, and/or DLC and/or official patch. The possibilities are endless.

 

By installing manually I also assume you don't uninstall any of your mods to install a new version but simply overwrite the files in your folders.

[NCRForever]

 

No. You're not talking crap. Maybe it's because I install mods manually. I don't know. But, for me, DCMS is mandatory. So, if a mod causes issues with it, I remove it.

 

Which never happened to me, using dozens of mods simulateneously. So, to use your choice of words, maybe you're the one talking crap. First, by installing manually, secondly by not updating DCMS when an update was available, and thirdly because you blame your problems on one mod, just because disabling it seemed to take care of your issues. Without any regards to the possibility that another one of your rather peculiar choice of mods may have caused a problem with an outdated version of DCMS and/or better settlers, and/or DLC and/or official patch. The possibilities are endless.

 

By installing manually I also assume you don't uninstall any of your mods to install a new version but simply overwrite the files in your folders.

 

First off, you're completely off with your assumption. My entire folder is backed up to the latest FO4 release. So if something goes wrong, I just start over. For me, it's no biggie. Secondly, wow. You are one rude piece of work. I'm done with this convo.

[cossayos]

 

For me, it's no biggie. Secondly, wow. You are one rude piece of work. I'm done with this convo.

 

 

Why? Because I took issue with your use of "talking crap" and played the ball back to your own field? So it's OK for you using the phrase but it's rude to treat you to the same phrase?

[Ethreon]

When the person that made the mod says mod has issues, but rando no.5 insists they know better, you abandon the ship.

[ouyin2000]

When the person that made the mod says mod has issues, but rando no.5 insists they know better, you abandon the ship.

Mr Rando doesn't seem to have heard of Occam's Razor or Sherlock Holmes' quote "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

Edited December 16, 2016 by ouyin2000

[IronGator454]

Going back to DCMS still working for some but not others, I would like to say that mine finally bugged out on me yesterday. Running V1.7.3 with NMM maxed at 255 active mods, 25+ settlements, several with 175-250 settlers. It has worked flawless for months though started getting slow to auto-assign jobs. Most of it is still functioning now, but is assigning 71 new settlers and a total of 230 to Guard Post every time I hit Call of the General at Nordhagen . I have come to rely on it as we all have but hard to believe it worked as long as it did. It does seem to be a cumulative effect that causes it to start bugging out but not depending on how many mods or really even conflicts. My save files are all still great, so would suggest to anyone that has a working DCMS to continue using it until it starts to bug. As popular as mod is and the fact has been hidden, the Author apparently is very dedicated and probaly trying hardest to get it fixed for us. We just have to have a lil patience

[crawe1x]

Going back to DCMS still working for some but not others, I would like to say that mine finally bugged out on me yesterday. Running V1.7.3 with NMM maxed at 255 active mods, 25+ settlements, several with 175-250 settlers. It has worked flawless for months though started getting slow to auto-assign jobs. Most of it is still functioning now, but is assigning 71 new settlers and a total of 230 to Guard Post every time I hit Call of the General at Nordhagen . I have come to rely on it as we all have but hard to believe it worked as long as it did. It does seem to be a cumulative effect that causes it to start bugging out but not depending on how many mods or really even conflicts. My save files are all still great, so would suggest to anyone that has a working DCMS to continue using it until it starts to bug. As popular as mod is and the fact has been hidden, the Author apparently is very dedicated and probaly trying hardest to get it fixed for us. We just have to have a lil patience

 

You raise some very interesting points here. DCMS may well be the culprit. I certainly agree about the cumulative effect being a factor.

 

However, we also need to remember that having up to 250 settlers is taking the game way, way, WAY beyond what Bethesda had in mind. In the vanilla game, for practical purposes, settlement populations maxed out in the low 20s. Now you're talking about increasing those populations by more than 1000%. In other words, the game is being forced to operate in an manner that it was never really designed to operate in and was therefore never optimized for. I wonder, the fact that you game bugged out, is it down specifically to DCMS or is it down to weaknesses in the vanilla settlement system?

 

I use Puma's old Increased Settler Population mod. Puma himself always warned that the settlement system could get increasingly buggy the higher the population. I previously used the 100 limit version of the mod, but I experienced on two occasions problems like the one you've described, where settlers refused to accept jobs, etc. and when they did, it would often take up to fifteen minutes for them to respond. This happened when I hit the mid-60s in headcount, so well within the limit of Puma's mod. The first time this happened to me was before DCMS was released. The second time was shortly after its release (in other words, when it was being actively supported and working for most people). So I'm not convinced that this (and similar issues) are directly or solely related to DCMS.

 

On my last playthrough, which lasted many months, I used the standard version of Puma's mod, which allows 50 settlers plus charisma (so you max out in the low 60s). However, I always stopped recruiting when I hit the high 40s. Honestly, this felt like more than enough. My main settlement was Sanctuary. Having close to 50 settlers, plus 20+ provisioners streaming in and out, the Bunker Hill caravans, and a bunch of crafted dogs and robots (not Automatrons but the ones from Robot Home Defence) was more than enough. It felt like a bustling community, more active than Diamond City, without being complete overkill. The only other settlements that came even close to this in terms of population (but without all the provisioners passing through) were Spectacle Island and the Castle. I kept all my other 20+ settlements relatively small (i.e. 10-20 population headcount). Using this method, I had zero problems of any kind.

 

Generally, with settlements, I follow a best practice approach:

 

1. Don't go overboard with the populations and keep well within the limits. A theoretical headcount of 60 should be treated as a practical headcount of 50.

2. I never let settlers spawn naturally. Instead, I only spawn them via the console. I then immediately assign them a job to a work station (all of which have been built beforehand). If a mission objective insists that I build a recruitment beacon, then I will do so - but I then immediately scrap it literally seconds later (pretty much instantaneous) so as to complete the mission objective but before any settlers can respond to it.

3. DCMS is a complex and script heavy mod. I only making sparing use of its functionality. I never use the more complex scripts like auto-assign settlers and Call of the General. I had problems with these commands even when DCMS was fully supported. The only commands I use regularly are Burn Baby Burn and Track Damaged Resources. Very occasionally, I may use the command to call up unassigned settlers (I don't have a need to do this often though, because nearly all my settlers are normally assigned the moment I spawn them into the game). Also, whenever I use these simpler commands, I only use them one at a time and never simultaneously.

 

My overall conclusion is that DCMS has the potential to cause game-breaking bugs, and that this potential may be significantly higher than that of other large complex mods. However, the chances of bugs can be hugely minimized by using some simple rules: be careful about what other mods you use alongside DCMS, keep it near the bottom of your load order, avoid pushing your game way beyond the limits (i.e. 50 settlers rather than 250), and treat DCMS with a degree of caution (i.e. don't use some of the more extreme commands and use the others carefully and sparingly).

 

Now having said all this, I'll probably turn on my game tonight and discover that it's totally bugged out. :laugh: And if that does happen, I'll keep it to myself and eat my humble pie well away from prying eyes. :whistling:

Edited December 16, 2016 by crawe1x