[WIP] Weapon Addition and Replacement Suite (WARS)

[antistar]

Hey there. I haven't been in this forum of WARS for long time, but I did read that the progress is almost done for getting ready for the next phase of wip before beta testing. I'm very excited for that and even heard that ammo tweaks will be integrated to WARS. I do however have a question related to the ammotweaks where I did heard that it's still waiting for the updated version to be released. Is there an another plan or at least an backup plan if in case if it's likely that the ammotweaks may not be updated for another long time?

The backup plan is to use the currently available AmmoTweaks v1 - though it'd definitely be better to not need to do that, since AmmoTweaks v2 is so different to v1 that I'd need to throw that work away and do the v2 integration from scratch.

 

With that in mind - and this is something that didn't really occur to me as a possibility until recently - if that were to happen I'd probably try to do the AmmoTweaks v1 integration as an add-on plugin for WARS, rather than building it directly into the main WARS plugin. It would make it (somewhat) easier to move from v1 to v2 since I wouldn't need to painstakingly fish out the v1 integration stuff first, at least.

 

Hey, maybe I'll end up doing that for AmmoTweaks v2 regardless. It could even mean that WARS could come to XB1 after all (since the main plugin theoretically wouldn't need F4SE), though it'd be a pale shadow of the full version on PC.

[Winterworld19]

That totally make sense for that plan. It's good to see that progress and keep up the good work Antistar! I'm going to be excited that hopefully that WARS mod will be great and I can't wait to try it out when WARS will be given updates later on.

 

Hey there. I haven't been in this forum of WARS for long time, but I did read that the progress is almost done for getting ready for the next phase of wip before beta testing. I'm very excited for that and even heard that ammo tweaks will be integrated to WARS. I do however have a question related to the ammotweaks where I did heard that it's still waiting for the updated version to be released. Is there an another plan or at least an backup plan if in case if it's likely that the ammotweaks may not be updated for another long time?

The backup plan is to use the currently available AmmoTweaks v1 - though it'd definitely be better to not need to do that, since AmmoTweaks v2 is so different to v1 that I'd need to throw that work away and do the v2 integration from scratch.

 

With that in mind - and this is something that didn't really occur to me as a possibility until recently - if that were to happen I'd probably try to do the AmmoTweaks v1 integration as an add-on plugin for WARS, rather than building it directly into the main WARS plugin. It would make it (somewhat) easier to move from v1 to v2 since I wouldn't need to painstakingly fish out the v1 integration stuff first, at least.

 

Hey, maybe I'll end up doing that for AmmoTweaks v2 regardless. It could even mean that WARS could come to XB1 after all (since the main plugin theoretically wouldn't need F4SE), though it'd be a pale shadow of the full version on PC.

 

 

[tonysuns]

Squeal, can't wait for this! I have a question, since you are planning to use AmmoTweaks V2 (I do hope that you can make it an add-on like you said, instead being baked into WARS), will there be any mod compatibility issues with New calibers and other such mods that add more ammo/tweak ammo? I don't think they would interfere but would like to check just in case, been waiting for the Scorpion, one of my favorite guns!

[antistar]

Mods like that would almost certainly need a compatibility patch to be used alongside AmmoTweaks, since (unless plans have changed, and I don't think they have), both AmmoTweaks v1 and v2 add their own new calibres. Not to mention all the ammo sub-types, of course. (FMJ, AP, HP, etc.)

[Mavkiel]

Yeah that was my main concern, ammotweaks requiring patches from all other gun mods I am using. Don't get me wrong, it'd still be worth it for access to the guns you have made, it'd just be annoying to patch a dozen mods. To be fair, the annoyance could be tempered by how the ammotweaks mod performs. If it's the best thing since sliced bread, I'd be drooling when making the patches.

[tonysuns]

Thanks for the info, okay so I would definitely agree making ammotweaks an option instead of integrated. I am using LOTS of gun mods, and most of them I just don't bother with using them with New Calibers etc, I just stick with what they come with or use the vanilla ones.

[antistar]

I should stress that IF the integration of the AmmoTweaks framework were to be in an add-on plugin rather than the main WARS plugin (and this is far from certain), it would be to make development of this big, complicated mod more manageable - with the side effect of making an XB1 version of the mod (albeit a necessarily compromised one) somewhat more possible. It wouldn't be because I considered AmmoTweaks to be optional; I don't. It wouldn't be designed or properly tested without the AmmoTweaks integration part. It may technically work, but would it be balanced, or any fun?

 

Other weapon mods will require a patch to work smoothly alongside WARS regardless; weapons are set up very differently in WARS to in vanilla. Different omod structures, different stats, different perk interactions, etc. Separating out the AmmoTweaks integration wouldn't change that.

 

In fact, the immediate assumption that it being in an add-on plugin means that it's optional makes me more hesitant to handle it that way. I'm not having a go at you two for that reaction; it's maybe a reasonable assumption, and I can definitely imagine it being a common one... and that's the problem. It'd muddy the waters for people wanting to make compatibility patches for WARS, making it more difficult than it otherwise might be.

 

So I was really just thinking out loud in my previous post there, but maybe it would create more problems than it would solve, in the long run. An alternative I can imagine is doing the AmmoTweaks v1 integration as an add-on plugin, like I said - but as an internal testing thing only. The idea being that I could at least do a full playthrough test with most of the ammo-swapping, etc features in place - so that I can work out any kinks re: balancing and whatnot.

 

Then it would be faster to incorporate AmmoTweaks v2 - before beta testing and the public release - since I could simply drop the AmmoTweaks v1 integration plugin but move forward with the benefit of having refined the stats/balance/etc a bunch already.

 

I can also easily imagine that the main benefit of separating v1 integration out would be making that transition easier. Actually working on it while it's divided up might be more annoying and fiddly than anything.

 

 

Anyway, I dunno! This is all thinking out loud. It is a WIP, after all. ;)

[Mavkiel]

Yeah, by no means feel that we are pressuring you in one way or the other. You do have me curious as to how the stats/perk interactions differ from vanilla. Don't take that as a criticism, I loath the vanilla feel of weapons. Imo, either weapons murder everyone and you are godlike, or you up the difficulty, and you can unload a clip into a persons head and they walk away from it.

[tonysuns]

OHhh I see *facepalms myself* I didn't read carefully enough. I see what WARS is now (at least I hope so, an overhaul, I somehow missed that part). Don't want to put anymore work on you already, but would there be any chance that after the WARS main release, you could potentially make a version of where it just adds the weapons itself and not the whole system of WARS? It's the weapons (especially the Skorpion/Scorpion) that really has me going for this mod. Thanks.

[antistar]

Yeah, by no means feel that we are pressuring you in one way or the other. You do have me curious as to how the stats/perk interactions differ from vanilla. Don't take that as a criticism, I loath the vanilla feel of weapons. Imo, either weapons murder everyone and you are godlike, or you up the difficulty, and you can unload a clip into a persons head and they walk away from it.

I go into some detail on these things in the Mod Features part of the second post in the thread, actually. :)

 

 

OHhh I see *facepalms myself* I didn't read carefully enough. I see what WARS is now (at least I hope so, an overhaul, I somehow missed that part). Don't want to put anymore work on you already, but would there be any chance that after the WARS main release, you could potentially make a version of where it just adds the weapons itself and not the whole system of WARS? It's the weapons (especially the Skorpion/Scorpion) that really has me going for this mod. Thanks.

This is also covered in the second post of the thread, in the FAQ and Commentary sections. ;)