Would'nt There Be a Bigger Religious Presence in a Post Apocolyptic World?

[Fkemman11]

To me it just seems likely that religion would make a major comeback in the burned out, irradiated world of FO4. Probably, Beth wanted to skirt the subject as much as possible. But, I can't help thinking that whatever elements of the religious community were left would have had a much greater influence on Post Apocolyiptic America. I suppose its easy to forget that American Society was (and is?) deeply rooted in their religious beliefs. If for no other reason, I think a larger presence of religion would have helped create a richer story atmosphere in the game. If anyone would like to comment- feel free. But please remember that I asked about religion in FO4. Not religion in general......This topic was not created to advocate religious beliefs of any kind. Rather to discuss traditional religion in FO4.

 

What is the Brotherhoods stance on religion? You never see a small alcove anywhere " for brothers and sisters to contemplate their religious beliefs".

 

What about the citizens of the Commonwealth?

 

Is there more to the Children of Atom?

[bmt12]

There's a lot of potential to work out a rapture theme in this kind of game but like you said they skirted the issue almost entirely, I don't know if that was just out of political correctness or simply a symptom of how lacking FO4 was in every other regard.

[Fkemman11]

I liked that NVidia sort of addressed this with their vault 1080. But, yeah. I do think Beth avoided religion since it is potentially an "explosive" issue. With that being said- does it deserve a place in FO4?

 

With the inclusion of more religious tones- wouldn't that open the door for more "paranormal" elements like Ghosts and Demons? Or is the FO series in general supposed to be more about technology and its inherent "Peaks and Valleys"?

[taryl80]

I don´t think so.

 

The most people would just struggle with surviving. A lot of them would be selfish and that we have in all Fallouts with the Raiders. Besides that, there are a big loss of knowledge in this world. Many religious symbols have gone lost truth the wars (remember, for the great war was also the ressource wars). One of the last "bastion of knoweldge" would be the few ghouls, but they are mostly being hunted and shot down.

 

There are no major religions anymore. If you see someone is praying, he does it mostly to some weird-cult god.

 

ShoddyCast had make a good video about it:

 

[TheVampireDante]

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Religion

 

does it have a place in FO4?

 

They do include it, just not as a "frontline" theme for the most part.

 

They continue to include the Children of Atom after all - and in a bit more detail than in FO3, what with the settlement in the glowing sea and the Far Harbour group.

 

I don´t think so.

 

The most people would just struggle with surviving.

 

A lot of people would be looking for something to rally around after the bombs fell. Could have been plenty that survived who turned to a religion in the aftermath.

No doubt some of the vaults themselves where designed with a religious theme as part of its experiment, and if anyone from those survived and made it out then those individuals would likely have taken their beliefs with them into the wasteland.

[Ethreon]

A variety of religious cults/styles still exist, whether they are newly emerged or already existing. Why does it have to be a major theme?

[montky]

@fkemman11

this is a great lore-tastic thread, again with the awesome questions!

It is another one of those complex aspects of Fallout games which was under-developed in FO4.

 

it goes without saying I talk too much,

and that my head-canon and continuity might not align with other folks' canon and versions.

I don't know who R Barthes is, and what the 'definitive officially official' continuity definitively is. :smile:

though it's always awesome to share lore-discussions with other FO fans,

and see what fallout means to them.

there's all kinds of stuff that goes into exegesis this way.

 

indeed, let's consider what we know so far, and then FO4;

The Shii, the mutants from Necropolis, Harold, the Enclave, the BoS, the mojave,

the NCR, the children of atom, the Old Mormon Fort and Followers of the Apocalypse,

Caesar's Legion etc...

 

in FO4, we have;

cyrogenics, the "Pillars of the Community", the Cabots and immortality/death defying Lorenzo serum,

the case of reincarnation/transhumanism for CVRIE, Danse, and Nick Valentine, maybe shaun.

the supermutant cure etc,

"the hedonist colony at Goodneighbor" as the top stands from Diamond City put it...,

children of atom and DiMa

We cannot forget the Vault Tec Salesman or the Preacher at Diamond City.

FO4 also rewards players that go to the preacher in diamond city and sit to have 'reflection' with XP bonus etc.

 

now we have that out of the way and further context, we can have some lore discussions and answers to the last 3 questions.

 

"What is the BoS's stance on religion?"

That depends on the FO fan, the BoS fan, and what they think the BoS is.

BoS fans get really passionate about this, so I look forward to lore tangents.

I like to think the BoS has anyone who is ready willing and able to serve in it involved.

setting FO4 aside momentarily,

the BoS ostensibly is secular.

It does not make authoritative judgements about how individuals conduct themselves,

and ought not regulate private lives of it's members. FONV and what happened to Veronica Santangelo were the exception and not the rule.

much as many modern militaries allow individuals more freedoms in their private life.

I'd like to think that ghouls, sentient AI and ZAXes, people, synths... any lifeform that can live by the BoS codes,

can serve in the BoS for the betterment of all human kind.

So, it's secular or non-denominational, and would have members from all different worldviews and beliefs, who work together to achieve their goals.

It might be repugnant to some wastelanders or the Enclave,

but yes, there are proud Asian-Americans who have served in the BoS from Mariposa to the present.

other wastelanders still harbor resentment towards persons of asian descent for what happened in 2077... even if they're not related to the combatant parties. that's partly what makes the Yangtze moment so poignant in FO4 - a pre-war american meets a post-war chinese person, and the prewar american may have been an Anchorage vet...

They are free to practice their belief.

There are also many Scribes in the BoS who are of non-beliefs etc.

 

I would hope they would not forgo the differences between

the BoS and the Enclave,

or forget what happened at Mariposa,

or how 2077 really happened.

Maxson knew.

 

"What about the citizens of the commonwealth?"

I think a lot of commonwealth citizens in FO4 are too busy surviving to have much organized belief.

they seem to be agrarian and are not averse to use force to get what they need.

a vast majority would seem to eschew belief altogether, and I don't know that applying the label

'non-belief' or 'atheist' is really accurate. I don't think a lot of folks are like Riddick and "anti-deist' etc though.

most of the sentient beings post 2077 seem to be unfamiliar with a lot of the pre-war world and it's ways.

they have spiritual tribalism and customs all their own.

that's what makes encounters with 'characters' - folks that have different ways in FO,

and non-violent ways to play and FORPG, fun.

 

"Is there more to the Children of Atom?"

this is a great question. I'd like to hope so.

Megaton, if the player sided with Tenpenny... that was a massacre.

all they did was worship an unexploded bomb.

those children of atom were not harming anyone.

they had found a way to communicate and control wild ghouls and people alike.

The Enclave would use that to wipe out mutants and rad-ghouls... the Children of Atom would be the last the Enclave eradicated.

though, most Children of Atom are a lot like the Ghouls at Novac.

they're a different lifeform altogether.

They don't really seem to want to harm anyone.

 

they also don't seem to be quite like the Ghouls at necropolis or the ghoul-museum in FO3.

why are the Children of Atom armed with rad-guns, if they don't want to forcibly convert wastelanders to

Children of Atom? Critically, it seems pariah-ish.

if they make a formerly non-rad area irradiated, non-Children of Atom cannot live near that without ill effect.

though it seems Children of Atom also clean areas that were formerly uninhabitable,

restoring areas into liveable environments for other lifeforms in the wasteland.

 

So, it felt lousy in FO4 when things like the karma system, the faction costume system and stealth were absent.

The Children of Atom in most locales were auto-enemies.

the Glowing Sea ones could be easily non-violent or avoided altogether though.

 

I didn't want to blast the Children of Atom, and tried my best to spare them.

though settlements had to be defended, and auto-turrets kill auto-enemies on sight.

It would have been awesome to see a win-win;

maybe they could enter into detente with the other factions too?

they might have ways of removing rads from afflicted people.

The BoS, Institute and Enclave among others, would be interested in how they retain their sentience despite prolonged rad-exposure.

How is it, that Children of Atom don't just melt or go feral from all the rads?

Maybe, Hancock could be returned to his pre-Ghoul self, if he wanted to.

Though, Hancock doesn't appreciate or need 'rad-demption'. hehe

[DoctorKaizeld]

dang it Montky! your responses are always great.

 

actually i kinda am with Dante here. the religions are there just thankfully not front line. we have the children of atom and the church in Pun Name City. when you merge the various games though and take into account the settings you can see that religion is there.

 

(note: i am only covering Beth games for this)

 

FO3

 

we have the Children of Atom all worshiping the bomb in Megaton

we have thee Ghouls (albeit feral) worshiping the Monolith

we have the Swampfolk of Point lookout who worship Ug-Qualtoth

 

FONV

 

now this game is a lot harder to cover on the grounds that it really isnt addressed by most directly and the game is centered on the city of sin sooo... take that as you will. remember this game was released before it was finished.

 

the Khans clearly worship something it can be seen by their culture and in their settlement though i dont recall if they ever addressed it

the Legion seemed to worship their leader (some of them that is) though again i dont think this is every directly stated or was just implied... or i miss understood what was said.

it could be argued people worshiped Vegas itself as a refuge though this probably stretches the definition to its limits.

it is implied that the Followers of the Apocalypse have religious subsections and factions

the tribes in the Grand Canyon all have something they worship though off the top of my head i cant remember what it was and dont care enough for the DLC to bother googling it.

 

FO4

 

Baseball City Church

Children of Atom

 

to be fair though... the base game only has three settlements and you gain control of one of those:

-Goodnighbor

-Bunkerhill

-Swatter City

[Fkemman11]

I was thinking that it would have been very cool if say one person sorta was revered as a "living god" in the Commonwealth. Perhaps a very old ghoul with seemingly supernatural powers. I envisioned a society in which some are fanatically loyal to this individuals "new- old religion". There would be grand religious ceremonies and maybe a huge cathedral. This new "God" of the Commonwealth would be very much akin to the ancient Egyptian Pharaohs. This would be a great opportunity to either side with this religious establishment or to "take it to the man" and stamp it out with a little help from your friends (or take it over).

 

I'm only using this as an example to show where religion could play a bigger part in the game. The religious aspect of it is only to add "flavor".

 

I had another idea about a Children of Atom splinter group. One that is more aligned with "traditional" religion and seeks to "enlighten" their brethren.

 

@ Taryl80. Thanks for the vid. Kinda makes me want to go back and play FNV again. It did a good job of weaving a complex tapestry to make a player think about their role in the game. Perhaps we might bring more of this to FO4. I must admit that following the story of "The father in the caves" was what helped keep me interested in that DLC.

[DoctorKaizeld]

 

I was thinking that it would have been very cool if say one person sorta was revered as a "living god" in the Commonwealth. Perhaps a very old ghoul with seemingly supernatural powers. I envisioned a society in which some are fanatically loyal to this individuals "new- old religion". There would be grand religious ceremonies and maybe a huge cathedral. This new "God" of the Commonwealth would be very much akin to the ancient Egyptian Pharaohs. This would be a great opportunity to either side with this religious establishment or to "take it to the man" and stamp it out with a little help from your friends (or take it over).

sooo Master from Fallout 2?