We have a name! And a Q&A session with Tannin regarding the new mod manager.

[Ethreon]

In response to post #50135442. #50140607, #50170477 are all replies on the same post.

btn2k3 wrote: Any Chance we could see a Virtual version of the root folder.
So tools like xedit, enb, etc can be installed in virtual folder and not touch the game folder at all?

This could also work out well for quickly swapping out enb configs without having to worry about if you have removed all of the old files from a previous enb (each gets a folder and that folder can be enabled/disabled from a tab in Vortex similar to how MO currently enabled and disables folder reads for virtuallization).

Just a thought...

wheelchairwillie wrote: Great idea! Image enhancers are so common now having improved root support to switch between them from a dropdown or something as well as storing the setting in the mod list (in case one switch between have several) would be a great time saver.
Particularly since many mods are optimized to only work with specific releases and versions like weather changers or overhauls.
Would also make mod development easier by making it quicker to change between "vanilla" and modded setups with the required tools in place for testing.

JakFlacket wrote: This would be an EXTREMELY appreciated edition to vortex. It would further serve to streamline management of these mods, and as a user of multiple of these root folder modifications, it would really make vortex the obvious choice.

A mod manager should not have access to the root folder, no discussion. If Vortex has that the chance of even more user blunders is increased too much. If you know how to install the modding utilities needed to make your game function correctly you shouldn't be needed a manager to deal with them.

[Olivir2019]

In response to post #50135442. #50140607, #50170477, #50170702 are all replies on the same post.

btn2k3 wrote: Any Chance we could see a Virtual version of the root folder.
So tools like xedit, enb, etc can be installed in virtual folder and not touch the game folder at all?

This could also work out well for quickly swapping out enb configs without having to worry about if you have removed all of the old files from a previous enb (each gets a folder and that folder can be enabled/disabled from a tab in Vortex similar to how MO currently enabled and disables folder reads for virtuallization).

Just a thought...

wheelchairwillie wrote: Great idea! Image enhancers are so common now having improved root support to switch between them from a dropdown or something as well as storing the setting in the mod list (in case one switch between have several) would be a great time saver.
Particularly since many mods are optimized to only work with specific releases and versions like weather changers or overhauls.
Would also make mod development easier by making it quicker to change between "vanilla" and modded setups with the required tools in place for testing.

JakFlacket wrote: This would be an EXTREMELY appreciated edition to vortex. It would further serve to streamline management of these mods, and as a user of multiple of these root folder modifications, it would really make vortex the obvious choice.

Ethreon wrote: A mod manager should not have access to the root folder, no discussion. If Vortex has that the chance of even more user blunders is increased too much. If you know how to install the modding utilities needed to make your game function correctly you shouldn't be needed a manager to deal with them.

My opinion: Anything that must be installed in root directory should be placed there manually and not using any mod manager, let alone a mod manager with virtualisation. SKSE virtualized? No, thank you. Also, anything like that would make Vortex another candidate for bashing by mod authors, just like MO. A mainstream mod manager strongly unsupported by number of mod authors (and especially the utility authors)... Edited May 17, 2017 by J.O.D.

[H3X1C]

In response to post #50135442. #50140607, #50170477, #50170702, #50173447 are all replies on the same post.

btn2k3 wrote: Any Chance we could see a Virtual version of the root folder.
So tools like xedit, enb, etc can be installed in virtual folder and not touch the game folder at all?

This could also work out well for quickly swapping out enb configs without having to worry about if you have removed all of the old files from a previous enb (each gets a folder and that folder can be enabled/disabled from a tab in Vortex similar to how MO currently enabled and disables folder reads for virtuallization).

Just a thought...

wheelchairwillie wrote: Great idea! Image enhancers are so common now having improved root support to switch between them from a dropdown or something as well as storing the setting in the mod list (in case one switch between have several) would be a great time saver.
Particularly since many mods are optimized to only work with specific releases and versions like weather changers or overhauls.
Would also make mod development easier by making it quicker to change between "vanilla" and modded setups with the required tools in place for testing.

JakFlacket wrote: This would be an EXTREMELY appreciated edition to vortex. It would further serve to streamline management of these mods, and as a user of multiple of these root folder modifications, it would really make vortex the obvious choice.

Ethreon wrote: A mod manager should not have access to the root folder, no discussion. If Vortex has that the chance of even more user blunders is increased too much. If you know how to install the modding utilities needed to make your game function correctly you shouldn't be needed a manager to deal with them.

J.O.D. wrote: My opinion: Anything that must be installed in root directory should be placed there manually and not using any mod manager, let alone a mod manager with virtualisation. SKSE virtualized? No, thank you. Also, anything like that would make Vortex another candidate for bashing by mod authors, just like MO. A mainstream mod manager strongly unsupported by number of mod authors (and especially the utility authors)...

I would love this, disagree with the two above, pretty sure it will reduce user error tbh with download with manager it gives users a one click solution, maybe require mod authors to pack files in a folder named root or a simpler solution would be to add an option on nexus files page when mod authors upload to choose whenever you want vortex to place files in data (default) or root folder and then just have a different link that vortex recognises, also would prevent other managers wrongly installing root stuff in data directory.

[sopmac45]

In response to post #50017357. #50023137, #50023837, #50026827, #50032642, #50058787 are all replies on the same post.

sopmac45 wrote: Hi Tannin42 ... I started to play Skyrim SE like 4 months ago so I've never used MO and I am just familiar with NMM, however, I am practically a rookie to mods ( but I am not a teenager though .. lol .. ) and my question are :
1 - Will Vortex clean up files as SSEDIT does ?
2 - Will I have to use LOOT or Vortex will do the sorting ?
3 - Assuming that I want to restart the whole game again, will Vortex allow me to just deactivate/delete all the mods and most important, must I delete all Skyrim data/files and reinstall it again as I am doing now ?
If I do not make any sense, just please bear with me because I am new to mods as I said but it is a pain in the butt to go nuke and restart the whole thing again .. will be there a more practical/fast solution to this ?
Regarding the name, I did not vote for Vortex but I am ok with that name. It will be impossible to please the world. Simplicity and reliability of this new program is what it count IMHO.
Thanks so much.

Pabulum wrote: I'm not Tannin but at least there's a response.

1 - Will Vortex clean up files as SSEDIT does ?
2 - Will I have to use LOOT or Vortex will do the sorting ?

I hope not! xEdit doesn't belong within a mod manager. Same with LOOT. It makes stuff harder to keep updated.

3 - Assuming that I want to restart the whole game again, will Vortex allow me to just deactivate/delete all the mods and most important, must I delete all Skyrim data/files and reinstall it again as I am doing now ?

That won't be until the VFS-related crap is released.

TerminusVitae wrote: @Pabulum not Tannin either, but I'd dispute your last assertion; the "purge" feature that the Q&A describes would *effectively* uninstall all mods without un/re-installing the whole game, much like trying to run a game outside of Mod Organizer.

For those who don't know, when running a game with MO, the VFS makes it seem to the game as if the files are there when they aren't, (Virtual File System; think of it like a Virtual Reality headset that MO puts on the game's head, so the game can see and interact with files that aren't technically there.) But when not running the game through MO, the folders are clean of all those files, and the game is essentially entirely unmodded. No mod files visible, thus no mods installed.

Ostensibly, the purge feature would allow instant access to the exact same thing even in a symbolic link set-up, instantly and easily removing the file system links that made the files visible and the game modded at all. (For symbolic links, imagine that instead of making the game wear a headset, you just tie a bunch of strings to it's fingers, and tie the other end to stuff that's not usually in reach. The purge button feature would cut all the strings, until you pressed a different button to re-tie them.) You'd theoretically almost never have to "empty out the whole game folder and reinstall" again, as any files that are mod related could be automatically and precisely removed without ever touching or otherwise damaging the original game files (or, for that matter, the mod files at the other end of the strings), as opposed to the usual "wiping everything to make sure nothing got missed".

Additionally, the intent from day one to support a wide range of games means that unlike NMM or even MO, the manager would theoretically be able to handle a wider range of folders within the game's files than usual, as it'd have to... not all games are as cleanly organized as Bethesda's "stuff it all in .\ Data" mentality. :P This would still help Beth games though, because by being able to handle (for example) the main Skyrim folder (as opposed to only the Skyrim\ Data folder) even stuff like ENB presets and SKSE loaders can be handled (and for ENBs, even easily switched between) by the manager and thus purged by it if needed, even if only needed temporarily.

Tannin42 wrote: 1) No, we don't integrate xedit and for now we have no plan to do so. Vortex will be extensible through extensions so if someone with development experince comes along they could add such a feature
2) Vortex integrates loot and userlist management from inside the gui so you don't have to run loot manually. This can of course be disabled for users who don't like convenience. ;)
3) Sure. You could either simply create a new, empty, profile and switch to that or use the purge option.
Both should lead to a clean data directory (at least clean of the files Vortex added, of course we don't remove anything added through other means like steam workshop).

TechAngel85 wrote: 2) Will this solution be similar to that of MO's sort feature? The reason I ask is because you couldn't create any sort of meta rules with the sort feature alone, thus you were still required to have LOOT for any medium to heavily modded game unless you locked the plugins into place which wasn't the best solution for ease of management.

Tannin42 wrote: Vortex allows you to edit the loot userlist directly from the ui, this way you can customise the sorting.
Also, the sorting happens in the background so the UI doesn't lock while sorting happens. Apart from that it's similar to MO.

Thanks Tannin42 ... got a couple of more questions :
1 - Right now, if we reinstall Skyrim, we must clean the .esm skyrim files and double-clean Dawnguard and manually remove a couple of cells inside to make it work as it should and avoid CTD, my question is, with Vortex, will we have to do this also or not ?
2 - Some mod creators suggest to place their mods in a specific load order to avoid CTD and conflict with other mods, so, how Vortex will handle this part or how will we handle this part to be more clear ? Will it a matter how order the mod is place at, based on the mod creator suggestion ? How Vortex will know which mod to load first into the game ? Right now, it is a pain in the a... to do this and figure it out. For those that have been modding for a very long time and are programmers, this should be piece of cake but the majority of us are not in that level, so how friendly will be Vortex with the "rookie" community which I belong to?

Thanks

[Olivir2019]

In response to post #50017357. #50023137, #50023837, #50026827, #50032642, #50058787, #50174632 are all replies on the same post.

sopmac45 wrote: Hi Tannin42 ... I started to play Skyrim SE like 4 months ago so I've never used MO and I am just familiar with NMM, however, I am practically a rookie to mods ( but I am not a teenager though .. lol .. ) and my question are :
1 - Will Vortex clean up files as SSEDIT does ?
2 - Will I have to use LOOT or Vortex will do the sorting ?
3 - Assuming that I want to restart the whole game again, will Vortex allow me to just deactivate/delete all the mods and most important, must I delete all Skyrim data/files and reinstall it again as I am doing now ?
If I do not make any sense, just please bear with me because I am new to mods as I said but it is a pain in the butt to go nuke and restart the whole thing again .. will be there a more practical/fast solution to this ?
Regarding the name, I did not vote for Vortex but I am ok with that name. It will be impossible to please the world. Simplicity and reliability of this new program is what it count IMHO.
Thanks so much.

Pabulum wrote: I'm not Tannin but at least there's a response.

1 - Will Vortex clean up files as SSEDIT does ?
2 - Will I have to use LOOT or Vortex will do the sorting ?

I hope not! xEdit doesn't belong within a mod manager. Same with LOOT. It makes stuff harder to keep updated.

3 - Assuming that I want to restart the whole game again, will Vortex allow me to just deactivate/delete all the mods and most important, must I delete all Skyrim data/files and reinstall it again as I am doing now ?

That won't be until the VFS-related crap is released.

TerminusVitae wrote: @Pabulum not Tannin either, but I'd dispute your last assertion; the "purge" feature that the Q&A describes would *effectively* uninstall all mods without un/re-installing the whole game, much like trying to run a game outside of Mod Organizer.

For those who don't know, when running a game with MO, the VFS makes it seem to the game as if the files are there when they aren't, (Virtual File System; think of it like a Virtual Reality headset that MO puts on the game's head, so the game can see and interact with files that aren't technically there.) But when not running the game through MO, the folders are clean of all those files, and the game is essentially entirely unmodded. No mod files visible, thus no mods installed.

Ostensibly, the purge feature would allow instant access to the exact same thing even in a symbolic link set-up, instantly and easily removing the file system links that made the files visible and the game modded at all. (For symbolic links, imagine that instead of making the game wear a headset, you just tie a bunch of strings to it's fingers, and tie the other end to stuff that's not usually in reach. The purge button feature would cut all the strings, until you pressed a different button to re-tie them.) You'd theoretically almost never have to "empty out the whole game folder and reinstall" again, as any files that are mod related could be automatically and precisely removed without ever touching or otherwise damaging the original game files (or, for that matter, the mod files at the other end of the strings), as opposed to the usual "wiping everything to make sure nothing got missed".

Additionally, the intent from day one to support a wide range of games means that unlike NMM or even MO, the manager would theoretically be able to handle a wider range of folders within the game's files than usual, as it'd have to... not all games are as cleanly organized as Bethesda's "stuff it all in .\ Data" mentality. :P This would still help Beth games though, because by being able to handle (for example) the main Skyrim folder (as opposed to only the Skyrim\ Data folder) even stuff like ENB presets and SKSE loaders can be handled (and for ENBs, even easily switched between) by the manager and thus purged by it if needed, even if only needed temporarily.

Tannin42 wrote: 1) No, we don't integrate xedit and for now we have no plan to do so. Vortex will be extensible through extensions so if someone with development experince comes along they could add such a feature
2) Vortex integrates loot and userlist management from inside the gui so you don't have to run loot manually. This can of course be disabled for users who don't like convenience. ;)
3) Sure. You could either simply create a new, empty, profile and switch to that or use the purge option.
Both should lead to a clean data directory (at least clean of the files Vortex added, of course we don't remove anything added through other means like steam workshop).

TechAngel85 wrote: 2) Will this solution be similar to that of MO's sort feature? The reason I ask is because you couldn't create any sort of meta rules with the sort feature alone, thus you were still required to have LOOT for any medium to heavily modded game unless you locked the plugins into place which wasn't the best solution for ease of management.

Tannin42 wrote: Vortex allows you to edit the loot userlist directly from the ui, this way you can customise the sorting.
Also, the sorting happens in the background so the UI doesn't lock while sorting happens. Apart from that it's similar to MO.

sopmac45 wrote: Thanks Tannin42 ... got a couple of more questions :
1 - Right now, if we reinstall Skyrim, we must clean the .esm skyrim files and double-clean Dawnguard and manually remove a couple of cells inside to make it work as it should and avoid CTD, my question is, with Vortex, will we have to do this also or not ?
2 - Some mod creators suggest to place their mods in a specific load order to avoid CTD and conflict with other mods, so, how Vortex will handle this part or how will we handle this part to be more clear ? Will it a matter how order the mod is place at, based on the mod creator suggestion ? How Vortex will know which mod to load first into the game ? Right now, it is a pain in the a... to do this and figure it out. For those that have been modding for a very long time and are programmers, this should be piece of cake but the majority of us are not in that level, so how friendly will be Vortex with the "rookie" community which I belong to?

Thanks

@Pabulum:
Based on this thread:
1) xEdit will not be incorporated, unless someone will make a plugin for it in the future
2) Loot - it's included API will do the sorting just like MO; however, you could just run the LOOT from its standalone installation Edited May 17, 2017 by J.O.D.

[lued123]

In response to post #50135442. #50140607, #50170477, #50170702, #50173447, #50174202 are all replies on the same post.

btn2k3 wrote: Any Chance we could see a Virtual version of the root folder.
So tools like xedit, enb, etc can be installed in virtual folder and not touch the game folder at all?

This could also work out well for quickly swapping out enb configs without having to worry about if you have removed all of the old files from a previous enb (each gets a folder and that folder can be enabled/disabled from a tab in Vortex similar to how MO currently enabled and disables folder reads for virtuallization).

Just a thought...

wheelchairwillie wrote: Great idea! Image enhancers are so common now having improved root support to switch between them from a dropdown or something as well as storing the setting in the mod list (in case one switch between have several) would be a great time saver.
Particularly since many mods are optimized to only work with specific releases and versions like weather changers or overhauls.
Would also make mod development easier by making it quicker to change between "vanilla" and modded setups with the required tools in place for testing.

JakFlacket wrote: This would be an EXTREMELY appreciated edition to vortex. It would further serve to streamline management of these mods, and as a user of multiple of these root folder modifications, it would really make vortex the obvious choice.

Ethreon wrote: A mod manager should not have access to the root folder, no discussion. If Vortex has that the chance of even more user blunders is increased too much. If you know how to install the modding utilities needed to make your game function correctly you shouldn't be needed a manager to deal with them.

J.O.D. wrote: My opinion: Anything that must be installed in root directory should be placed there manually and not using any mod manager, let alone a mod manager with virtualisation. SKSE virtualized? No, thank you. Also, anything like that would make Vortex another candidate for bashing by mod authors, just like MO. A mainstream mod manager strongly unsupported by number of mod authors (and especially the utility authors)...

H3X1C wrote: I would love this, disagree with the two above, pretty sure it will reduce user error tbh with download with manager it gives users a one click solution, maybe require mod authors to pack files in a folder named root or a simpler solution would be to add an option on nexus files page when mod authors upload to choose whenever you want vortex to place files in data (default) or root folder and then just have a different link that vortex recognises, also would prevent other managers wrongly installing root stuff in data directory.

I think this could be a good thing, as long as it's purpose (switching between enbs, basically) is made explicitly clear. You wouldn't want to use it for SKSE (since SKSE is basically just better than vanilla) or your enblocal.ini, since that file is system-specific if you set it up right. Lots of files it wouldn't be suitable for, actually.
Also, I do agree with Ethreon to an extent. Managers have always just dealt with the data folder, and suddenly changing that could open the program up to lots of hate. This would have to be an opt-in feature if it existed at all.
What I imagine will happen is that someone will write an enb manager extension, and if you want it, you can install it.

[crysck2002]

In response to post #50034892.

TheEyeIsBlind wrote: should have named it "Goober"

"download with goober"

"Goober is now installing the mod"

it just has a nice ring to it.

Heheh...okay, that's a good one.

[Calicodisco]

most important question.. will it install legacy of the dragonborn without taking 45 mimutes..

 

[UhuruNUru]

In response to post #50135442. #50140607, #50170477, #50170702, #50173447, #50174202, #50177812 are all replies on the same post.

btn2k3 wrote: Any Chance we could see a Virtual version of the root folder.
So tools like xedit, enb, etc can be installed in virtual folder and not touch the game folder at all?

This could also work out well for quickly swapping out enb configs without having to worry about if you have removed all of the old files from a previous enb (each gets a folder and that folder can be enabled/disabled from a tab in Vortex similar to how MO currently enabled and disables folder reads for virtuallization).

Just a thought...

wheelchairwillie wrote: Great idea! Image enhancers are so common now having improved root support to switch between them from a dropdown or something as well as storing the setting in the mod list (in case one switch between have several) would be a great time saver.
Particularly since many mods are optimized to only work with specific releases and versions like weather changers or overhauls.
Would also make mod development easier by making it quicker to change between "vanilla" and modded setups with the required tools in place for testing.

JakFlacket wrote: This would be an EXTREMELY appreciated edition to vortex. It would further serve to streamline management of these mods, and as a user of multiple of these root folder modifications, it would really make vortex the obvious choice.

Ethreon wrote: A mod manager should not have access to the root folder, no discussion. If Vortex has that the chance of even more user blunders is increased too much. If you know how to install the modding utilities needed to make your game function correctly you shouldn't be needed a manager to deal with them.

J.O.D. wrote: My opinion: Anything that must be installed in root directory should be placed there manually and not using any mod manager, let alone a mod manager with virtualisation. SKSE virtualized? No, thank you. Also, anything like that would make Vortex another candidate for bashing by mod authors, just like MO. A mainstream mod manager strongly unsupported by number of mod authors (and especially the utility authors)...

H3X1C wrote: I would love this, disagree with the two above, pretty sure it will reduce user error tbh with download with manager it gives users a one click solution, maybe require mod authors to pack files in a folder named root or a simpler solution would be to add an option on nexus files page when mod authors upload to choose whenever you want vortex to place files in data (default) or root folder and then just have a different link that vortex recognises, also would prevent other managers wrongly installing root stuff in data directory.

lued123 wrote: I think this could be a good thing, as long as it's purpose (switching between enbs, basically) is made explicitly clear. You wouldn't want to use it for SKSE (since SKSE is basically just better than vanilla) or your enblocal.ini, since that file is system-specific if you set it up right. Lots of files it wouldn't be suitable for, actually.
Also, I do agree with Ethreon to an extent. Managers have always just dealt with the data folder, and suddenly changing that could open the program up to lots of hate. This would have to be an opt-in feature if it existed at all.
What I imagine will happen is that someone will write an enb manager extension, and if you want it, you can install it.

You're all not thinking clearly, this is a Mod Manager for all games, not just the Bethesda ones, as such to do that job correctly, for every game/engine, it must be able to install mods whereever they need to go, it can't cater for just type like ENB's.

The MO approach is the correct one, if a better tool already exists, get that tool to work with the manager. Good ENB Managers allready exist, Vortex should work with them, not remake them, especially in a Multi-game/engine manager

Tannin's response to the Backup question, of use a backup solution that can manage links, raises the biggest problem I've found when using NMM's Sym/Hard Link system.

Most, if not all 3rd party mod tools, (like Bodyslide, FNIS, xEdit, etc) also don't handle links correctly. Every tool I used. put new, and modified files directly in the Data folder, not as links, breaking all existing links, and negating any NMM management, for those files, which relies on those links, to switch profiles.

MO's virtual file system did handle, these 3rd party tools correctly (eventually), but it took a lot of testing to get it there, and sometimes needed user intervantion.
Mo's Overwrite Mod is this fail safe system, and it's the thing, most new users had problems with.

this is the only problem with using Sym/Hard Links as the means of Virtual Management, but it needs fixing, or like NMM, it becomes useless at multi-profile management, if any 3rd party tool is used with it.

Single profile games do work with NMM, as long as that profile is the only one used.
Swtch, even to an empty profile, and all the files added by other tools, remain in the data/mod folder.

Vortex must be able to mamage, 3rd party, files correctly, and intercept the added, changed files, creating links, and putting the originals in the isolated mod folders.

It's a difficult task with MO, and it's only does it for TES4, TES5, F3, and FNV, which have the same basic 32-bit engine. Vortex will have to do this, as the 3rd party tools are unlikely to do so, especially the older tools.

That's always the big sticking point, to work with all games, it can only be a basic manager. In my opinion, the best manager for any game/engine, is designed for only that task. I simply don't believe, you can have an advanced, and generic manager.

It must be a Jack of all games, but master of none. Advanced mod management, requires the tool be Master of one game/engine, and it then becomes unusable for the rest.
I'll stick to choosing a manager on a game by game basis, as it gives me the best for them all. If you want, a one size fits all tool, use Vortex, but don't expect advanced game specific featuires, beyobd the Bethesda Game Studios titles, that Nexus relies on. Edited May 19, 2017 by UhuruNUru

[Jiopaba]

My first thought is that Vortex is the new name/upgrade for the Android app "Remotr" which lets you use your tablet as an interface to play games remotely on your computer over the internet.