The evolution of gamers and gaming

[PoorlyAged]

Are or Aren't TES and Fallout games RPGs is a question I have seen argued before. But for me, the argument is without meaning.

 

Why? Because the R in RPG is a function of the player and not the game. Yeah, the game provides the platform, but it is the player that is ultimately responsible for the Roll that is played. If the player wants to play one character archetype or another, they are taking on a roll. If a player wants to combat their adversaries in one style or another, the player is taking on a roll. If the player makes a decision on the course of the game, they player is taking on a roll.

 

So for me, 'tis simple. If the R in your RPG is lacking, the issue and the solution are not in the game.

Edited June 3, 2017 by PoorlyAged

[Lisnpuppy]

When people speak of having their actions matter, and in older TES games this was true. For example, in Morrowind if you did a certain Thieves Guild quest, it locked you out of the Fighter's Guild (without mods of course.) Also you had to eventually pick a faction and build your Stronghold, and after that alternate factions would attack you. This is a simple example.

 

But in Oblivion, you actually do a thieves quest where you steal from the Mage's Guild. But you can be in the Mage Guild and be the Master and basically steal from yourself on the thieves quest. Or do the stealing and still become the leader of the Mage Guild. That is silly.

 

In theory a player can avoid this by not participating in the quest lines, but that isn't the same. You steal from the Mage Guild then there should be consequences for that. Regardless of if you join the other quest line or not.

 

Streamlining certain things, making games appeal to a wider audience doesn't mean a game has to just let one go do anything without consequence. Part of the fun is making those choices and having to deal with them. If one wishes to play another way, then start a new character.

 

As for the mechanisms, well that is debatable. However in earlier games (like NWN) then your choices of the skills for your character, their race, class and point you put in skills-may be a bit complicated but it allows a character to be different, play different and have different consequences. Now games seem to ignore this and more importantly many only provide one way to play the game. You can't choose not to kill someone. You can't complete a quest more than one way. It gets a bit boring at times.

 

Since TES made games before that allow some of these things, I don't see why they can not now. They can still streamline. They can still have ways to play to appeal to the larger gamer world. Just to have one thing doesn't mean you must totally give up the other.

[JimboUK]

Are or Aren't TES and Fallout games RPGs is a question I have seen argued before. But for me, the argument is without meaning.

 

Why? Because the R in RPG is a function of the player and not the game. Yeah, the game provides the platform, but it is the player that is ultimately responsible for the Roll that is played. If the player wants to play one character archetype or another, they are taking on a roll. If a player wants to combat their adversaries in one style or another, the player is taking on a roll. If the player makes a decision on the course of the game, they player is taking on a roll.

 

So for me, 'tis simple. If the R in your RPG is lacking, the issue and the solution are not in the game.

 

The tools to play a role should be in the game, what are we paying them for? arguing you can do it all in your head makes every single game a possible RPG, in fact if you're going to do everything yourself why even bother with the game? just close your eyes and use your imagination. If a game is sold as an RPG I expect to be able to play different roles and have the game react to that, no game could react to all possibilities but I do expect to be able change something, Skyrim and Fallout 4 do not react in any way. Both Skyrim and FO4 are decent enough games but they're both appalling RPGs.

[Fkemman11]

Devs have gotten lazy and unimaginative with story- boarding in favor of open world, go anywhere, do anything free style game play. Skyrim was a beautiful game when it first came out- and you could tell that is where the focus was. I don't think they streamlined the gameplay mechanics so much to make it easier for players as they did it to make it easier for themselves to program. It is a trend in gaming that has taken root probably since the success of Skyrim. The only way that a dev will ever be forced to "make a better game" is to deal with a releases failure- something that EA has relearned recently.

 

I would happily give up streamlining games for a deeper, better written story any day of the week. Choices in a story are good. Having them mean something would be even better. :geek:

[PoorlyAged]

 

Are or Aren't TES and Fallout games RPGs is a question I have seen argued before. But for me, the argument is without meaning.

 

Why? Because the R in RPG is a function of the player and not the game. Yeah, the game provides the platform, but it is the player that is ultimately responsible for the Roll that is played. If the player wants to play one character archetype or another, they are taking on a roll. If a player wants to combat their adversaries in one style or another, the player is taking on a roll. If the player makes a decision on the course of the game, they player is taking on a roll.

 

So for me, 'tis simple. If the R in your RPG is lacking, the issue and the solution are not in the game.

 

The tools to play a role should be in the game, what are we paying them for? arguing you can do it all in your head makes every single game a possible RPG, in fact if you're going to do everything yourself why even bother with the game? just close your eyes and use your imagination. If a game is sold as an RPG I expect to be able to play different roles and have the game react to that, no game could react to all possibilities but I do expect to be able change something, Skyrim and Fallout 4 do not react in any way. Both Skyrim and FO4 are decent enough games but they're both appalling RPGs.

 

 

Why of course. The inability of a game to meet expectations has absolutely nothing to do with what the player brings to the keyboard. It is completely the games failing.

[AdamRundolf001]

The solution to this problem is modding. The Worlds Dawn and Disparity mods are what I use. They're mods that add classes and attributes as well as randomized enchanted/tempered loot to the game. If you want races but don't want an extensive overhaul I'd try Imperious races. Morrowloot and ordinator for the added weapons, armor, etc. and also for the manually placed daedric equipment. This feature was in morrowind but was since removed. If you want an unleveled world I'd try Real Unleveled Skyrim Reborn... search for it on the nexus page. Trust me you'll like it... I know that I have!

[minngarm]

Technically Mario is an RPG, you play the role of Mario or Luigi. There is no accurate definition for what an RPG is. Some define mechanics for JRPG and WRPG, others require choices.

 

But if its not mechanics than Dues Ex is not a RPG, or Fallout 3, NV, 4.

 

If its not choices than none of the final fantasy games are RPGs

[iXenite]

Technically Mario is an RPG, you play the role of Mario or Luigi. There is no accurate definition for what an RPG is. Some define mechanics for JRPG and WRPG, others require choices.

 

But if its not mechanics than Dues Ex is not a RPG, or Fallout 3, NV, 4.

 

If its not choices than none of the final fantasy games are RPGs

 

You're really beginning to stretch the definition of RPG. While it is a broad term that can encompass many types of "RPG's" - a standard Mario game would certainly not qualify.

[PoorlyAged]

 

Technically Mario is an RPG, you play the role of Mario or Luigi. There is no accurate definition for what an RPG is. Some define mechanics for JRPG and WRPG, others require choices.

 

But if its not mechanics than Dues Ex is not a RPG, or Fallout 3, NV, 4.

 

If its not choices than none of the final fantasy games are RPGs

 

You're really beginning to stretch the definition of RPG. While it is a broad term that can encompass many types of "RPG's" - a standard Mario game would certainly not qualify.

 

 

I think you may have missed the point.

 

The definition of "RPG" is so imprecise and nebulous that the appellation can be (and is) stretched to cover a whole host of disparate games. In the end, what is or isn't a RPG is pretty much left up to the players preferences, imagination and opinion.

[iXenite]

I think you may have missed the point.

 

The definition of "RPG" is so imprecise and nebulous that the appellation can be (and is) stretched to cover a whole host of disparate games. In the end, what is or isn't a RPG is pretty much left up to the players preferences, imagination and opinion.

 

 

I can already tell that this is not going to be worth discussing, so I'll just concede and leave it at that.