Creation Club Summer 2017

[chucksteel]

Everyone wants a job doing what they love.

Also, if Bethesda had decided to do creation club on their own, no hiring people from the comunity, would you still call it paid mods?

 

good question, and I would like to add one.

 

what if they did it the same way but didn't announce they would also be subcontracting modders from the community but, used community members anyway! would it still be paid mods?

[DSPiron]

what if they did it the same way but didn't announce they would also be subcontracting modders from the community but, used community members anyway! would it still be paid mods?

<Yes.>

[MrJoseCuervo]

 

Everyone wants a job doing what they love.

Also, if Bethesda had decided to do creation club on their own, no hiring people from the comunity, would you still call it paid mods?

 

good question, and I would like to add one.

 

what if they did it the same way but didn't announce they would also be subcontracting modders from the community but, used community members anyway! would it still be paid mods?

 

 

If they are selling Crab Armor and single items yes. But they want the cheap labor to help them fleece their users. Offer a few butt-hurt greedy modders some chump change to help rake in millions seems like a boardroom concocted idea made by some C word with an MBA.

[Alexotero1219]

I think what he's saying is "So modders are wrong to try and sell their hard work, but youtube personalities are allowed to monetize their videos and even turn it into a job in some rare cases? Why aren't they called greedy for allowing ads to plague their work for money?"

 

Also, would Banksy be in the wrong if he sold reproductions and photos of his art, or even opened up a commission stall somewhere?

(And Pepsi is never called out for selling their soda, as no one in their right mind would argue that any beverage beyond water should be free)

The key difference in this whole argument about youtuber vs mod author is that youtubers don't charge people to watch their videos.

 

Imagine if youtubers got together and decided they would petition youtube to allow them to charge individuals if they wanted to watch their videos.

 

I would be willing to bet my entire savings account that every channel that participated in the program would vanish in under a couple months and youtube itself would enter a downword spiral as users fled the site in disgust. Hence the CC creates the exact same problems.

 

In fact most youtubers don't even earn most of their money from ads. They open merchandise stores and sell t-shirts and the like as a form of strings off monetization. In fact mod authors could actually learn alot about good business practices from youtubers.

[MrJoseCuervo]

 

I think what he's saying is "So modders are wrong to try and sell their hard work, but youtube personalities are allowed to monetize their videos and even turn it into a job in some rare cases? Why aren't they called greedy for allowing ads to plague their work for money?"

 

Also, would Banksy be in the wrong if he sold reproductions and photos of his art, or even opened up a commission stall somewhere?

(And Pepsi is never called out for selling their soda, as no one in their right mind would argue that any beverage beyond water should be free)

The key difference in this whole argument about youtuber vs mod author is that youtubers don't charge people to watch their videos.

 

Imagine if youtubers got together and decided they would petition youtube to allow them to charge individuals if they wanted to watch their videos.

 

I would be willing to bet my entire savings account that every channel that participated in the program would vanish in under a couple months and youtube itself would enter a downword spiral as users fled the site in disgust. Hence the CC creates the exact same problems.

 

In fact most youtubers don't even earn most of their money from ads. They open merchandise stores and sell t-shirts and the like as a form of strings off monetization. In fact mod authors could actually learn a lot about good business practices from youtubers.

 

True. I would buy an Ethreon urinal cake.

 

lol J/k bud.

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

 

 

I should have said "the minority that feels entitled to free mods"

the majority of gamers already have to pay for their extra content as until recently, that's all there was on consoles.

 

I am not saying they will serve C&Ds on F4Edit and F4SE and Nexus, et al, I am saying that with the industry going after free modding and even the use of console commands to cheat in games, once precedents are set other publishers will see how they can use them to their advantages.

Zenimax wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't look at what Take2 and Topware are doing and work out ways to increase their profits.

they could put a stop to free modding at there is nothing we can do to stop them.

we could boycott their games out of protest but seeing that PC makes up such a small percentage of the market and only a small percentage of PC users would actually go that far, it would make no difference to Zenimax.

if every PC user did boycott the next BGS title, the accounting boys will point out the cost of porting to the PC vs zero sales and recommend that they stop bothering with PC ports to save time and money which would be better spent on the console versions.

 

given that PS4 users are desperate for mods that add new quests and content, if Sony are happy with CC mini DLC packs then there is a market twice the size of the PC market that is desperate to pay for new content.

 

but you have to take into account that there is a mod limit which includes DLC as well as the 2GB limit on console mods, it won't take many free mods to stop people from being able to buy CC mini-DLCs.

CC cost Zenimax money so they will want a return on that.

Bethesda.net is a mess, costs them money and for no return.

if you were working for Zenimax, what would you do?

remember that Take2 have set a precedent that could be applied to F4SE and F4Edit and Topware have set a precedent to lock the developer tools and console commands so that they can sell cheat codes for god mode. and every free mod downloaded means a lost sale of a CC mod

 

How about the modders who "Feel entitled" to be paid?

 

Mods are free. They have been free for years. The truth is some modders are extremely butthurt that You-tubers are making a living talking about mods. You know why they make money? Because people find THEM entertaining, not the video of your mod. If anything you should be thankful they give you the exposure.

 

We've already proven that youtube videos do nothing for modders.

 

Why is it everyone EXCEPT the Mod Author can make money off their products? How is that even remotely fair?

 

It appears to me, that you are the one acting all entitled to the fruits of others labors.

 

 

So you are telling me if someone makes a video about their love of Pepsi they should pay Pepsi for talking about their product? Or lets make it closer to home, lets say they make a video about how great Banksy (the street artist) is. Should they pay up for discussing or critiquing the art work?

 

LOL that's not the way it works. Your childish jealously will destroy modding for ever.

 

Whaaa! It's not Fair! Well become a Youtuber that mods perhaps? Just stop whining like a little..

 

I would point out, that in each of your examples, the company/artist already sells their product. They don't give it away for free, so other folks can make money off of it. Should pepsi make their product, and then just give it away?

 

Maybe you should stop whining about folks actually wanting to get paid for their work. No one says that you have to buy it. No one is saying that free mods should be banned.

 

I know, why don't you go to GM, work at a job for several hours a day, for no pay. Then, everyone else can benefit from the fruits of your labor EXCEPT YOU. That is what you are expecting from mod authors.

 

Also, not all of them 'expect' to get paid. As a matter of fact, NONE of them EXPECT to get paid. A selection of them would LIKE to get paid, but, if they don't, that doesn't mean they are going to stop. And if they do get the opportunity to get paid, that doesn't mean they will stop making free mods either.

 

 

That's the thing. Its not work. You can go through this a thread and read it yourself. To Modders, Modding is their game. They want Players who play the game for entertainment to pay them for modding the game for entertainment. How does that make sense? As I have pointed out, I stepped into their world for a short time. Most modders are pretty cool, others are like Ethreon above who are so arrogant and selfish they have no problem betraying everything that made their hobby possible just because they have some sick elitist attitude.

 

And don't believe for a second that this Creation Cult of Modders is a done deal, we as consumers have the power to steer this ship away from the iceberg. Our buying power will ultimately decide. I suggest people un-endorse any mods by authors who support the Creation Cult and not spend a dime on Bethesda products until they cease and desist. We stopped it last time and we can this time despite the traitors in our midst.

 

Never made a mod, have you. (that's not a question.)

 

So, folks that like what they do shouldn't get paid for it? Is that really your position? You think everyone should hate their job, because that's the only thing that justifies getting paid for it? Wow. Never run for public office......

[minngarm]

 

I think what he's saying is "So modders are wrong to try and sell their hard work, but youtube personalities are allowed to monetize their videos and even turn it into a job in some rare cases? Why aren't they called greedy for allowing ads to plague their work for money?"

 

Also, would Banksy be in the wrong if he sold reproductions and photos of his art, or even opened up a commission stall somewhere?

(And Pepsi is never called out for selling their soda, as no one in their right mind would argue that any beverage beyond water should be free)

The key difference in this whole argument about youtuber vs mod author is that youtubers don't charge people to watch their videos.

 

Imagine if youtubers got together and decided they would petition youtube to allow them to charge individuals if they wanted to watch their videos.

 

I would be willing to bet my entire savings account that every channel that participated in the program would vanish in under a couple months and youtube itself would enter a downword spiral as users fled the site in disgust. Hence the CC creates the exact same problems.

 

In fact most youtubers don't even earn most of their money from ads. They open merchandise stores and sell t-shirts and the like as a form of strings off monetization. In fact mod authors could actually learn a lot about good business practices from youtubers.

 

That has been a thing for years on Youtube. Paywall videos have been successful for over half a decade.

[Alexotero1219]

 

 

I think what he's saying is "So modders are wrong to try and sell their hard work, but youtube personalities are allowed to monetize their videos and even turn it into a job in some rare cases? Why aren't they called greedy for allowing ads to plague their work for money?"

 

Also, would Banksy be in the wrong if he sold reproductions and photos of his art, or even opened up a commission stall somewhere?

(And Pepsi is never called out for selling their soda, as no one in their right mind would argue that any beverage beyond water should be free)

The key difference in this whole argument about youtuber vs mod author is that youtubers don't charge people to watch their videos.

 

Imagine if youtubers got together and decided they would petition youtube to allow them to charge individuals if they wanted to watch their videos.

 

I would be willing to bet my entire savings account that every channel that participated in the program would vanish in under a couple months and youtube itself would enter a downword spiral as users fled the site in disgust. Hence the CC creates the exact same problems.

 

In fact most youtubers don't even earn most of their money from ads. They open merchandise stores and sell t-shirts and the like as a form of strings off monetization. In fact mod authors could actually learn a lot about good business practices from youtubers.

 

That has been a thing for years on Youtube. Paywall videos have been successful for over half a decade.

 

You're talking about youtube red?

 

Thats more of a subscription model and its actually not as successful as you might think.

 

Youtube doesn't actually give out its performance figures for programs it offers (so im not sure how you would know whether red was successful or not) but looking at some market research on it Ive found pretty abysmal statistics but its a lot of guesswork. Something like only converting 1.24% of youtubes total userbase to Red while also only being able to monetize about 10% of that 1.24%.

 

Secondly an example of the type of content youtube red produces is staggeringly different from what bethesda seems to intend to produce. The most popular youtuber partnering with the entire production team from AMC's the walking dead to produce multiple videos on a pay per month basis is hardly comparable to crab armor and pipboy color mods produced on a pay for download basis. Even then youtube red doesn't actually seem to be a real success by any sense of the word. Especially considering video content has traditionally generated revenue based on the size of audience and red appears to have an abysmal conversion rate.

 

Edit: youtube red itself is also a different animal completely. It provides consumers with many services that people could reasonably find worth paying for such as the ability to watch videos without an internet connection, ad free videos ect. ect. Its not the same as simply charging for videos.

Edited June 20, 2017 by Alexotero1219

[Deleted631007User]

I don't even care anymore. Here's a more low quality version of what I already posted. It's the only way I can express my feelings towards this clustertruck of a total community breakdown.

Funny, how just when you think life can't possibly get any worse it suddenly does.

[MrJoseCuervo]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I should have said "the minority that feels entitled to free mods"

the majority of gamers already have to pay for their extra content as until recently, that's all there was on consoles.

 

I am not saying they will serve C&Ds on F4Edit and F4SE and Nexus, et al, I am saying that with the industry going after free modding and even the use of console commands to cheat in games, once precedents are set other publishers will see how they can use them to their advantages.

Zenimax wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't look at what Take2 and Topware are doing and work out ways to increase their profits.

they could put a stop to free modding at there is nothing we can do to stop them.

we could boycott their games out of protest but seeing that PC makes up such a small percentage of the market and only a small percentage of PC users would actually go that far, it would make no difference to Zenimax.

if every PC user did boycott the next BGS title, the accounting boys will point out the cost of porting to the PC vs zero sales and recommend that they stop bothering with PC ports to save time and money which would be better spent on the console versions.

 

given that PS4 users are desperate for mods that add new quests and content, if Sony are happy with CC mini DLC packs then there is a market twice the size of the PC market that is desperate to pay for new content.

 

but you have to take into account that there is a mod limit which includes DLC as well as the 2GB limit on console mods, it won't take many free mods to stop people from being able to buy CC mini-DLCs.

CC cost Zenimax money so they will want a return on that.

Bethesda.net is a mess, costs them money and for no return.

if you were working for Zenimax, what would you do?

remember that Take2 have set a precedent that could be applied to F4SE and F4Edit and Topware have set a precedent to lock the developer tools and console commands so that they can sell cheat codes for god mode. and every free mod downloaded means a lost sale of a CC mod

 

How about the modders who "Feel entitled" to be paid?

 

Mods are free. They have been free for years. The truth is some modders are extremely butthurt that You-tubers are making a living talking about mods. You know why they make money? Because people find THEM entertaining, not the video of your mod. If anything you should be thankful they give you the exposure.

 

We've already proven that youtube videos do nothing for modders.

 

Why is it everyone EXCEPT the Mod Author can make money off their products? How is that even remotely fair?

 

It appears to me, that you are the one acting all entitled to the fruits of others labors.

 

 

So you are telling me if someone makes a video about their love of Pepsi they should pay Pepsi for talking about their product? Or lets make it closer to home, lets say they make a video about how great Banksy (the street artist) is. Should they pay up for discussing or critiquing the art work?

 

LOL that's not the way it works. Your childish jealously will destroy modding for ever.

 

Whaaa! It's not Fair! Well become a Youtuber that mods perhaps? Just stop whining like a little..

 

I would point out, that in each of your examples, the company/artist already sells their product. They don't give it away for free, so other folks can make money off of it. Should pepsi make their product, and then just give it away?

 

Maybe you should stop whining about folks actually wanting to get paid for their work. No one says that you have to buy it. No one is saying that free mods should be banned.

 

I know, why don't you go to GM, work at a job for several hours a day, for no pay. Then, everyone else can benefit from the fruits of your labor EXCEPT YOU. That is what you are expecting from mod authors.

 

Also, not all of them 'expect' to get paid. As a matter of fact, NONE of them EXPECT to get paid. A selection of them would LIKE to get paid, but, if they don't, that doesn't mean they are going to stop. And if they do get the opportunity to get paid, that doesn't mean they will stop making free mods either.

 

 

That's the thing. Its not work. You can go through this a thread and read it yourself. To Modders, Modding is their game. They want Players who play the game for entertainment to pay them for modding the game for entertainment. How does that make sense? As I have pointed out, I stepped into their world for a short time. Most modders are pretty cool, others are like Ethreon above who are so arrogant and selfish they have no problem betraying everything that made their hobby possible just because they have some sick elitist attitude.

 

And don't believe for a second that this Creation Cult of Modders is a done deal, we as consumers have the power to steer this ship away from the iceberg. Our buying power will ultimately decide. I suggest people un-endorse any mods by authors who support the Creation Cult and not spend a dime on Bethesda products until they cease and desist. We stopped it last time and we can this time despite the traitors in our midst.

 

Never made a mod, have you. (that's not a question.)

 

So, folks that like what they do shouldn't get paid for it? Is that really your position? You think everyone should hate their job, because that's the only thing that justifies getting paid for it? Wow. Never run for public office......

 

 

Not everything needs or should be for profit. Leave the community alone. Leave mods alone. There is no need for paid mods. Is there a shortage of mods? Not the last time I looked around.