Freedom

[evilkoal]

i believe that the only laws we need are:

 

murder = death penalty

 

theft = jailtime

 

assault = jailtime + being assaulted yourself

 

i admit there would be a little chaos with my idea, but that would only be until people can learn to control themselves.

 

the country i live in (america,) as i see it is nothing short of crap. (well, the land is nice, just not the government.) nobody should be able to tell anybody what to do, aside from basic things like: dont kill people, dont steal crap, and dont hurt anybody.

 

where i live, there are so many stupid "little" laws that anger me to no end. one being that the government can take your land at any time without notice, as long as they "fairly compensate" you. so in effect, that makes the land you own not yours.

with this new "patriot act" did you know that if you are not pro globalization, you are considered a terrorist?

 

i just have many thoughts about this country that i cannot let out, because of fear of being locked up for being a "terrorist." what ever happened to the right to put down your government if it was not working out?

[hoots7]

this may be harsh , But people need to quit running like rats to the crums and act like mankind should, with a loud voice, start speaking about what they desire. cause a little chaos, a little disorder. Rework our goverments and redifine who our leaders should be. I dont mean start killing, because that goes on all the time anyway. We are so used to it, chaos and disorder would be to stop killing each other and get along, elect people, not politicians.

I agree we should shake things up in America but not chaos, it needs to be organized & I believe term limits for politicians & getting rid of their special retirement plans is a good start.

Make them have to live under the laws that they pass & with social security like most everyone else, then you would see real change.

 

Get rid of our weapons and live in peace. And i dont say america, i say the entire world down to the last person. in only that way could it happen. And only then could we actually be totally free, within the boundries of what can be considered, Laws morals, ect ect ect.

This is just way too naive, if you get rid (assuming you actually could) of all the weapons people would just make their own like clubs, swords bows & arrows. People didn’t have more freedom before them, why do you think they will if you could get rid of them? Guns are a great equalizer, take them away from the old & helpless and you create more victims.

 

A leader is not a leader, without his followers.

Wrong…a good leader leads whether anyone follows or not, they do the right thing even when no one is looking.

 

 

i believe that the only laws we need are:

 

murder = death penalty

theft = jailtime

assault = jailtime + being assaulted yourself

 

i admit there would be a little chaos with my idea, but that would only be until people can learn to control themselves.

 

One being that the government can take your land at any time without notice, as long as they "fairly compensate" you. so in effect, that makes the land you own not yours.

with this new "patriot act" did you know that if you are not pro globalization, you are considered a terrorist?

 

i just have many thoughts about this country that i cannot let out, because of fear of being locked up for being a "terrorist." what ever happened to the right to put down your government if it was not working out?

I’ll 2nd that; the pendulum has swung too far in many cases, but I think we need to put down the politicians, not the government.

[doomjockey]

I agree with Chesto in a fashion, for if (as Linspuppy states) the educated man can ably defend the concept of freedom so can he easily pervert it to his personal motives. You've heard certain presidents mention the word far too many times in far too many speeches and why? Not as a concept or an ideal, but as a means to an end like a bullet in the chamber. An appropriate comparison considering I seem to hear "freedom" more in these times of war than I ever heard in times of peace. Americans had a chance to (peacefully) fight for freedom during the scandal of the 2000 election, but didn't then ended up in a real fight after lives were lost in the 2001 terror attacks. It shows that we can and will take our general liberties for granted until blood stains our doorsteps.

 

And that's an ironic truth. Freedom can be used as a tool, much like the promise of lower taxes and higher wages, to shackle the citizenry.

[Lisnpuppy]

I agree with Chesto in a fashion, for if (as Linspuppy states) the educated man can ably defend the concept of freedom so can he easily pervert it to his personal motives. You've heard certain presidents mention the word far too many times in far too many speeches and why? Not as a concept or an ideal, but as a means to an end like a bullet in the chamber. An appropriate comparison considering I seem to hear "freedom" more in these times of war than I ever heard in times of peace. Americans had a chance to (peacefully) fight for freedom during the scandal of the 2000 election, but didn't then ended up in a real fight after lives were lost in the 2001 terror attacks. It shows that we can and will take our general liberties for granted until blood stains our doorsteps.

 

And that's an ironic truth. Freedom can be used as a tool, much like the promise of lower taxes and higher wages, to shackle the citizenry.

 

 

I agree that freedon can (and has) been used as the carrot hung in front while the whip is used from behind. And that those with intelligence can use the concept to pervert and destroy. However the educated person is the only person with a true chance of seeing through the lies and having hopes of changing things. It is well known from history that most revolutions and revolts come when people are BETTER off that before..when they are MORE literate and MORE educated.

That is why those in power have not and still don't wish to have an educated population. Keep them dumb and stupid and they will be two busy to figure out the shenanigans that are going on around them.

A perfect example is the French Revolution. Most people think the peasants were in a much more horrible state than they were. In fact at the time less people were suffering from starvation, the literacy rate in France at the time was higher than in the US today, and there was like 3 people in the Bastille because the KING was shutting it down.

 

So whatever your views of freedom....being educated and having the most access to information will give you more power over your fate that any other thing you can have. It is also (especially now in the computer age) more accessable than ever and you probably have a better change aquiring education and information than any other comodity.

[nosisab]

The Bene Gesserit (I think most here knows the Dune universe from Frank Herbert) have a saying

 

All governments suffer a recurring problem: Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible. Such people have a tendency to become drunk on violence, a condition to which they are quickly addicted.

Missionara Protectiva,

Text QIV (decto)

Chapterhouse: Dune

 

and too:

Give me the judgment of balanced minds in preference to laws every time. Codes and manuals create patterned behavior. All patterned behavior tends to go unquestioned, gathering destructive momentum.

Darwi Odrade

Chapterhouse: Dune

 

We see the first happening now and ever while the second is almost never used.

Fiction sometimes carries more of the reality than it itself.

Maybe we can't be totally free, maybe freedom is more a concept than a feature, yet we must fight to have and keep all of it we can.

[Lisnpuppy]

There must be a balance in freedom and safety of the whole... To have more freedom we must give up safety. Or we can be safe from terror, crime, etc at the expense of individual freedom.

 

That freedom and security are mutually exclusive is the big lie of modern American politics. In truth, if one is diminished, the other is diminished as well. "Exchanging freedom for security" is an excuse made up by cowards for situations where they're really giving up both.

 

 

To what I refer are things like search and seizure without warrant, wiretapping, etc without warrants in the name of "security"

The government as it stands in the US at present has and is infringing on civil liberty and freedom of the American people by using fear to cirvumvent the Constitution.

 

Is it this concept that you disagree, or am I being a "coward?"

[Tamujiin]

I have many different views i guess that go with my moods, Does that make me insane? Or saner?

 

anyway, another thought on freedom, as long as i keep the beurocratic bull out of my daily life, have a job, make money, pay my taxes, dont blow up anything or kill anyone, ( hard to do for me......video games luv em.), i can buy what i want, go where i want ( if i get a visa elswhere ) get crapfaced drunk, smoke ciggerettes ( outside which is fine by me ) or whatever else i want, within the bounderies of the law, that was written to protect me , and you, from each other. There was a time when i stole stuff, or wanted to kill someone, or did drugs. What the Law was written for is immature people, I know and some of you know, its not okay to kill someone. If it was the world would be alot quiter.

 

So aside from the various ways you can steal from someone ( petty theft to corporate embezlment), or murder someone, ( drunk driving death, to Mass muder ), or the variaty of drugs, the only other laws you can break are traffic laws, and imposing your will upon someone by force and/or a con. The law is written so crazy there are so many problems with it, people do suffer because of it, whether it be an innocent man in prison, or a victim of crime. ( in the extreme circumstance there are other laws you can break. )

 

In order to have order we need a system to follow that guides us along a path of what the majority believes is right and moral, even though our laws can be messed up, they are not to the point of needing a total reform. We just need to elect people, and not politicians, who suck up money to have sex with hookers or put there earmark on every bill they right.

 

And in my own personal opinion it seems to me that Barak Obama's wife wont let him step in the pile of poo that is politics, seems to me he might be a person. Maybe thee person to get us out of the crap the last administration put us in leading up to and following sept 11, 2001.

 

the sad thing is he has the Charisma and charm of JFK. And its scary to see the man run for office in the same damn circumstances he ran in. Lets just hope and pray that it works out. no matter who is elected. I fear for my country and those who live in it.

[Marxist ßastard]

To what I refer are things like search and seizure without warrant, wiretapping, etc without warrants in the name of "security"

 

Yes, and you said these things are necessary to maintain the "balance in freedom and safety of the whole." I'm saying that they are diminishing both freedom and security at the same time, because there is no balance between the two.

[Blake4000]

Freedom as we know it is definitely an empty phrase, a myth, somewhat of a dream. since we've never actually achieved total freedom and liberty. We're bound by alsorts of laws, perhaps some are good but some are simply making life difficult for people and serve only the greedy wealthy elite class. I believe we should have the most basic laws in the world and never change them, a universal law that applies to everyone, and is fair to everyone. Treats everyone equally. We don't have that. So yes, freedom is a myth so far.

Because if we keep having amendments that suit to change constantly, subject to change then evil people can and will make up evil laws to control the masses and make life even worse for people.

 

Perhaps a new world government will not be a bad thing, but it will, because theres evil people out there who want a new world order to centralize a total control and dictatorship style control over the world. But if there was 1 world, and no governments or borders or "nations", just basic laws of the world, and the police were the general population who policed themselves. Not so called "police" who do not serve and protect, but only serve to rip us off with fines and wrongful imprisonment for stupid laws. Noone ruled over anyone else. and everyone was harmonous, that would be nice. Abit like the Shires in lord of the rings I guess. and then we have a council every few years to address major issues if there are any. Not political but natural ones. Since no government means no political divisions or issues to deal with. Only the people and nature. But people are too absorbed in their divisions and labels and they think they are better than other nations etc. It couldn't work yet. People, human nature is too corrupt.

Perhaps we need a fresh start, a major event to bring us all back to stoneage and start again..world war 3 perhaps?

 

To deal with criminals, would just be "whatever someone does to you, do to them equal measure" all the religions say the same thing also. Known as the golden rule.

 

People need to take control and do what is right and stop letting the greedy elitist bankers and money owners control us with ridiculous laws that only infringe on our personnel freedom.

[Chesto]

I read a lot of 'treatment' of symptoms on this thread, but, with a few exceptions, very little about dealing with the lack of 'freedom'. And the fact that so many speak of what to do to get ' freedom', indicates that we aint 'free'.

 

Say again: if one hasn't found freedom within oneself, then all that is happening is that the walls of ones cell are getting a new paint job.