Niborino9409 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 On 12/20/2017 at 7:34 AM, axonis said: No, the dull hard truth is that many mod authors are very poor and need this money to survive. By survival I don't mean trips to warm islands for summer vacations, but rent, health and food. That's not what the system is for, Dark0ne stated so in the post: Quote Let me cut to the chase and clarify right now that this system definitely isn't going to let any mod author quit their day job. However, it should fulfill that original wish many mod authors have expressed for years now of wanting at least a little something tangible back from their modding hobby, even if it's just some recognition and a couple of free coffees/beers each month to keep them topped up while they're working on their mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambit77 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 In response to post #56081996. #56082276, #56082736, #56082851, #56104651, #56106911, #56107726, #56108276, #56109611, #56109726, #56109881, #56110486, #56111056, #56112401, #56113291, #56113516, #56113836, #56113921, #56114506, #56117001, #56118371 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote JimmyRJump wrote: I like the overall concept, although for SSE this could prove a bit of a hornet's nest with a lot of "modders" adapting restrictionless Skyrim2011 mods for the SE version.What I'd like to know is if folk willing to donate to the pool will be able to do so on an automated basis for a fix amount per month, like the recurring fee paid for Supporter/Premium status? Quote nesbit098 wrote: Interesting point of view.... Quote ousnius wrote: The opt-in will be off by default for each mod page. That means, people won't be allowed to make "points" off of porting SSE mods, unless the author specifically enables the permissions option for it. Quote JimmyRJump wrote: Thanks for the clarifcation, Ousnius. Quote sullyivan wrote: I'd prefer to donate funds directly to the pool on a monthly basis that would be a recurring automated process. This would be a great option. Great idea. Quote bchick3 wrote: I personally don’t see a problem with an sse porter like myself receiving donations this way or the old way. You know it’s not like there is an easy button you press and miraculously an oldrim mod is now an sse mod. It takes hours of work and that’s not including the time it takes to properly support said mod. Please folks don’t be hatin on porters. Quote JimmyRJump wrote: @bchick3Well, for a lot of small mods, the SSECK *IS* a magic button of kinds. I was referring to mods from modders who didn't have any restrictions on what was done with their mods. And with all due respect and certainly without any meaning of spreading *hate*, but whatever the time it takes to port a mod, it's still "just" a port and not original work. If the result of your port differs so much from the original then in my eyes it's no longer a port but a new mod that uses assets from what was the original.If the amount of time spent on doing something should be taken into acount, well, then I want in on the action for spending hours to upload a few screenshots because of going back and forth to get the links for the mods I use in my game that are representative for the way the screenie looks.Again, my comment was absolutely not intended to look down on "porters" but to raise the issue that it could prove more complicated than first thought to sort who is due what and what for. I'm not the kind of guy who's first downloading ported mods like a madman to then form a committee against the people who do the porting. I love mods and appreciate the people putting in the effort, but when it comes to recompense this better be thought out to within the most minute details or we risk running out of modders and porters because they could say, "well, if it's like this then I won't bother anymore". It has always struck me as odd that, from the moment there's money involved, things tend to go pear-shaped because of folk feeling entitled and getting nought, people getting jealous because "they" get some and "we" get nought,etc...The issue at hand is to set up a system that is fair towards everyone, not to start a smearing campaign. We're talking games here, not politics.And as important (to me) is the question about a possible automated contribution from non-modders towards the main pool of septims that will go towards the modders, if/when non-modders will be allowed to contribute money at all. Quote bchick3 wrote: Yeah I see your point and it’s not like I’m getting rich off donations I just dont want porters to get a raw deal here. It really does take some work to get mods ported. I f you don’t believe me give it a try. I’m not saying original authors should not get a percentage. Just that it should be a lower percentage. Otherwise it’s like you said, I will lose incentive to do ports at all. I do want to help people enjoy sse and that’s why I started porting some of the best mods. I have ported over 200 mods and I hate to think that would lose the ability for folks to show thier gratitude. Quite a lot of them were done by request. AnywY that’s my two cents Quote JimmyRJump wrote: @bchick3That's what I meant with "from the moment there's money involved things go pear-shaped" because you're already on that path with claiming that not getting anything will make you lose the incentive to continue porting. Well, first off, money should NEVER be the incentive, even when you do this for a living, and second, which ties in with the first, until now you did it because you wanted to do it, for free and at no cost, so, why all of a sudden stop when there's no money in it for you?Mind you, when it depended on me, everybody would profit. I was and am speaking from within the proposed system here. I'm not at all proposing that only original modders or porters that make a mod their own by drastic changes should get a share of whatever pecunary amount is available.Also keep in mind that this is not a done deal yet as is. Tinkering will need to and shall be done. Compromises will possibly have to be made. And heads will have to be kept cool when a nice mod -new or ported- that has cost a lot of effort gets only a couple of dozen endorsements and still brings the author zero point whatever in cash...Because it's not like this is gonna make some modders rich and steep others into poverty. In the end, if any kind of benevolent payment is implemented, the differences in bank account levels will be minimum and this whole discussion will probably be looked back upon with weary smiles a few weeks/months from now. Quote bchick3 wrote: Yeah, I probably overreacted a bit. Just got a tiny bit upset that some would think it’s supereasy to port a mod and therefore aren’t entitled to some recompense if folks wanted to do it out of their hearts. I will continue to port mods regardless. It’s hard to say no to someone who is requesting a ported mod when I know how to do it. And the author doesn’t know how or doesn’t want to port Didn’t mean nothing against you. Sorry if it sounded that way. Quote JimmyRJump wrote: No-no-no... I never took it the wrong way or thought you were getting back at me. This is just a discussion, or small debate if you like, hampered by turn-based game-like time-lapses and lack of vocal intonation and body language that often leads to misinterpretation.Don't apologise for making a point which is as valid as what I said (if my point is valid at all, that is). I think we both -and all the people involved- are smart enough to be able to have a pro/contra chat without imagining the other parties sitting at their PC ready to throw some dynamite at the screen. Or maybe they are. If so, we'll propbably read about it in the papers tomorrow... Quote bchick3 wrote: Thanks, I was afraid I was too vocal and embarrassed I might have offended you. You are right about one thing, money does bring the nasty out of people doesn’t it? Quote Levionte wrote: I don't think this is really a problem with the policy. Before you can use someone else's assets or upload their mod in its entirety, you need their permission. If the mod author specifies, during that "transaction" of permissions, a preference regarding donations of any kind, then that preference needs to be honored otherwise you don't have permission. I don't see that anything has changed in that regard. Except, perhaps we all need to review our collaborations when the changes take place to make sure we're all on the same page. However, and with all due respect, porting a mod is "supereasy" compared to making one from scratch. I'm not saying it doesn't take time and some amount of competence to do it, because it does. And I would not necessarily have a problem with someone who ported my mods receiving a profit for their time and energy- which I assume would be negotiated and agreed upon in advance. But, in my experience, porting a mod is absolutely trivial compared to developing one from nothing. And if some creators think that fact is salient to this conversation, I have no issue with that. But, again, that's more relevant to private discussions between collaborators than it is general policy. Quote bchick3 wrote: Levionte, Well it’s not supereasy. And that you would say that is upsetting. Yes I see you ported four of your own mods which maybe is supereasy for you. But I challenge you to try and port a mod that isn’t yours with nothing but the original mod and your wits. Try Tania the hermit from oldrim and then tell me how easy it is! Without looking at my port that is. Or if you want a real challenge, try eomsic yunsol port. That one took three days. But I’m sure you could do it in what, 5 minutes And another thing, me receiving donations does not in the least take away from the authors ability to do so on thier page. They can implement the donations button if they wish. Wether they do or not should not make a difference if I want to on my own page, unless the author doesn’t want me to. And so far only one author has asked me not to accept donations, which I of course compliedjimmyrjump, this is a hornets nest! I haven’t got this riled up in quite a while! Quote FrankFamily wrote: In response to post #56081996. #56082276, #56082736, #56082851, #56104651, #56106911, #56107726, #56108276, #56109611, #56109726, #56109881, #56110486, #56111056, #56112401 are all replies on the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote JimmyRJump wrote: I like the overall concept, although for SSE this could prove a bit of a hornet's nest with a lot of "modders" adapting restrictionless Skyrim2011 mods for the SE version.What I'd like to know is if folk willing to donate to the pool will be able to do so on an automated basis for a fix amount per month, like the recurring fee paid for Supporter/Premium status? Quote nesbit098 wrote: Interesting point of view.... Quote ousnius wrote: The opt-in will be off by default for each mod page. That means, people won't be allowed to make "points" off of porting SSE mods, unless the author specifically enables the permissions option for it. Quote JimmyRJump wrote: Thanks for the clarifcation, Ousnius. Quote sullyivan wrote: I'd prefer to donate funds directly to the pool on a monthly basis that would be a recurring automated process. This would be a great option. Great idea. Quote bchick3 wrote: I personally don’t see a problem with an sse porter like myself receiving donations this way or the old way. You know it’s not like there is an easy button you press and miraculously an oldrim mod is now an sse mod. It takes hours of work and that’s not including the time it takes to properly support said mod. Please folks don’t be hatin on porters. Quote JimmyRJump wrote: @bchick3Well, for a lot of small mods, the SSECK *IS* a magic button of kinds. I was referring to mods from modders who didn't have any restrictions on what was done with their mods. And with all due respect and certainly without any meaning of spreading *hate*, but whatever the time it takes to port a mod, it's still "just" a port and not original work. If the result of your port differs so much from the original then in my eyes it's no longer a port but a new mod that uses assets from what was the original.If the amount of time spent on doing something should be taken into acount, well, then I want in on the action for spending hours to upload a few screenshots because of going back and forth to get the links for the mods I use in my game that are representative for the way the screenie looks.Again, my comment was absolutely not intended to look down on "porters" but to raise the issue that it could prove more complicated than first thought to sort who is due what and what for. I'm not the kind of guy who's first downloading ported mods like a madman to then form a committee against the people who do the porting. I love mods and appreciate the people putting in the effort, but when it comes to recompense this better be thought out to within the most minute details or we risk running out of modders and porters because they could say, "well, if it's like this then I won't bother anymore". It has always struck me as odd that, from the moment there's money involved, things tend to go pear-shaped because of folk feeling entitled and getting nought, people getting jealous because "they" get some and "we" get nought,etc...The issue at hand is to set up a system that is fair towards everyone, not to start a smearing campaign. We're talking games here, not politics.And as important (to me) is the question about a possible automated contribution from non-modders towards the main pool of septims that will go towards the modders, if/when non-modders will be allowed to contribute money at all. Quote bchick3 wrote: Yeah I see your point and it’s not like I’m getting rich off donations I just dont want porters to get a raw deal here. It really does take some work to get mods ported. I f you don’t believe me give it a try. I’m not saying original authors should not get a percentage. Just that it should be a lower percentage. Otherwise it’s like you said, I will lose incentive to do ports at all. I do want to help people enjoy sse and that’s why I started porting some of the best mods. I have ported over 200 mods and I hate to think that would lose the ability for folks to show thier gratitude. Quite a lot of them were done by request. AnywY that’s my two cents Quote JimmyRJump wrote: @bchick3That's what I meant with "from the moment there's money involved things go pear-shaped" because you're already on that path with claiming that not getting anything will make you lose the incentive to continue porting. Well, first off, money should NEVER be the incentive, even when you do this for a living, and second, which ties in with the first, until now you did it because you wanted to do it, for free and at no cost, so, why all of a sudden stop when there's no money in it for you?Mind you, when it depended on me, everybody would profit. I was and am speaking from within the proposed system here. I'm not at all proposing that only original modders or porters that make a mod their own by drastic changes should get a share of whatever pecunary amount is available.Also keep in mind that this is not a done deal yet as is. Tinkering will need to and shall be done. Compromises will possibly have to be made. And heads will have to be kept cool when a nice mod -new or ported- that has cost a lot of effort gets only a couple of dozen endorsements and still brings the author zero point whatever in cash...Because it's not like this is gonna make some modders rich and steep others into poverty. In the end, if any kind of benevolent payment is implemented, the differences in bank account levels will be minimum and this whole discussion will probably be looked back upon with weary smiles a few weeks/months from now. Quote bchick3 wrote: Yeah, I probably overreacted a bit. Just got a tiny bit upset that some would think it’s supereasy to port a mod and therefore aren’t entitled to some recompense if folks wanted to do it out of their hearts. I will continue to port mods regardless. It’s hard to say no to someone who is requesting a ported mod when I know how to do it. And the author doesn’t know how or doesn’t want to port Didn’t mean nothing against you. Sorry if it sounded that way. Quote JimmyRJump wrote: No-no-no... I never took it the wrong way or thought you were getting back at me. This is just a discussion, or small debate if you like, hampered by turn-based game-like time-lapses and lack of vocal intonation and body language that often leads to misinterpretation.Don't apologise for making a point which is as valid as what I said (if my point is valid at all, that is). I think we both -and all the people involved- are smart enough to be able to have a pro/contra chat without imagining the other parties sitting at their PC ready to throw some dynamite at the screen. Or maybe they are. If so, we'll propbably read about it in the papers tomorrow... Quote bchick3 wrote: Thanks, I was afraid I was too vocal and embarrassed I might have offended you. You are right about one thing, money does bring the nasty out of people doesn’t it? Quote Levionte wrote: I don't think this is really a problem with the policy. Before you can use someone else's assets or upload their mod in its entirety, you need their permission. If the mod author specifies, during that "transaction" of permissions, a preference regarding donations of any kind, then that preference needs to be honored otherwise you don't have permission. I don't see that anything has changed in that regard. Except, perhaps we all need to review our collaborations when the changes take place to make sure we're all on the same page.However, and with all due respect, porting a mod is "supereasy" compared to making one from scratch. I'm not saying it doesn't take time and some amount of competence to do it, because it does. And I would not necessarily have a problem with someone who ported my mods receiving a profit for their time and energy- which I assume would be negotiated and agreed upon in advance. But, in my experience, porting a mod is absolutely trivial compared to developing one from nothing. And if some creators think that fact is salient to this conversation, I have no issue with that. But, again, that's more relevant to private discussions between collaborators than it is general policy. Quote bchick3 wrote: Levionte, Well it’s not supereasy. And that you would say that is upsetting. Yes I see you ported four of your own mods which maybe is supereasy for you. But I challenge you to try and port a mod that isn’t yours with nothing but the original mod and your wits. Try Tania the hermit from oldrim and then tell me how easy it is! Without looking at my port that is. Or if you want a real challenge, try eomsic yunsol port. That one took three days. But I’m sure you could do it in what, 5 minutes And another thing, me receiving donations does not in the least take away from the authors ability to do so on thier page. They can implement the donations button if they wish. Wether they do or not should not make a difference if I want to on my own page, unless the author doesn’t want me to. And so far only one author has asked me not to accept donations, which I of course compliedI do get why saying "that stuff you do is supereasy" could be offensive to someone making it but lets keep things in perspective. Something is "easy" when compared to something harder. Modding is really easy if you compare it with sending a rocket into space. Making a mod is obviously harder than porting it, because otherwise porting would be pointless and people would just re-develop their mods for SSE. Just take, for example, the time you've put as an example of a very hard port, 3 days, that's not actually a lot of time when compared to the time it takes to make most mods. Quote bchick3 wrote: Yeah I’m not trying to say porting a mod is the same as making one. I’m just saying that it’s not as easy as some folks think. Do a few ports and you will see what I mean. Yes, armor and weapons are easy, most of my ports have been followers which are not so easy. And if a porter wants to accept donations from people who appreciate the effort then what’s the harm? Quote Levionte wrote: I did not mean my statement as a personal attack, nor was it my intention to offend you. But I stand firmly by my points. And, again, this is something that should be negotiated between the original creator and anyone else who wants to use their assets for whatever reason. I have no interest in trying to dictate the terms anyone else agrees to. If you're permitted to receive donations that's great. But it's at the discretion of everyone who's work you used, just like the rest of us. If they tip you for who you are and what you do, great. That's not what this thread is about.In regards to your personal challenges, I would flip the same question onto you. How long would it take you to build one of those mods from nothing? If you asked the creators how long they worked on those mods, I guarantee they would give you a number much larger than three days. But that's really not the point, either.I never said porting mods isn't a valuable skill. We all have our roles to play and they're all important. But using someone else's assets does not give one ownership of them or their copyright. Once money is involved, that becomes an important distinction. Quote FrankFamily wrote: There's no harm at all as long as the maker of the mod that was ported is ok with it. And yeah, not all porting is equal, porting my mods is trivial for example, other types are probably harder. It's not good to trivialize the difficulty of what someone does but lets not inflate it either. Porting any given mod is neccessarily easier than making it given similar skill-level and knowledge between the original modder and the one porting, that's what I'm saying. Sentences like "I’m not saying original authors should not get a percentage. Just that it should be a lower percentage." kind of sound like porting deserves more reward than whoever made it originally, one could guess because it supposedly takes more effort/skill? Which defeats logic. In any case, whatever splitting of the points a port gets will be what was agreed between the porter and whoever made the original mod. Permissions are the key. I don't think the nexus should get into "this is a port, thefore it gets X% of the points" or stuff like that. That's up to the authors of both the mod and the port to make an agreement.Another thought regarding "And if a porter wants to accept donations from people who appreciate the effort then what’s the harm?":What are people truly appreciating? What are they donating to really?. The porting effort or the actual result which is the ported mod? And that's the thing, porting takes effort, certainly, but the downloads a mod gets don't depend on that effort, they depend on the mod itself which is the results of both the effort of the original modder and whoever ported it. And most certainly the latter is considerably smaller but unless an agreement is made between the authors, he gets all the reward. That's where the "problem" appears. Quote bchick3 wrote: You make good point there frank. And you too levionte. Really doesn’t matter what I or you think anyway. It will be what it will be. It’s the nexus gods that will decide what is fair and equitable. Just wanted my hearing and I’ve had my say. Quote Idiomic wrote: @bchick3I agree with you, there's still plenty of Oldrim mods that are yet to be ported to SSE. A couple little QoL mods that I'm in love with for Oldrim, are doubled torch/magelight radius and no-motion-blur Night Vision. No problem with netting a little DP here and there for helping to bring SSE on-par with Oldrim.One small problem that can arise though, is when multiple people try porting the same mod to SSE from Oldrim. Probably best resolved by "who uploaded it first." Quote Edsh0t wrote: Speed doesn't equal quality though, and bad ports ARE a thing. Wouldn't a "first come first serve" promote haphazardly done ports?Then again that point is relatively moot, since its not just speed and quantity, but popularity. In the end the better ones will get more unique downloads.Isn't the difficulty of porting the mod a moot point when Nexus is giving the porter the ability to automate sending the majority of the port's earned points to the original mod authors and keeping a little off the top for their trouble? I know that that kind of thing would be optional to do, but it would obviously be the right thing to do. And if the porters act in that manner I don't see why anyone would have an issue with other people porting their mods over. Keep it classy San Diego :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tktk1 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 I welcome a great try. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilandro Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 This will turn ugly real fast. Operating on fact "people have been doing it for free, why'd they start caring that much for money" is also very wrong, authors that would love to get some money for their work didn't had a choice to charge\get something back. "Do it for free or get out" was their only option. Except CC, but that's the story for another day. System will change the mindset of a lot of such authors, introducing unhealthy competition in modding community. And it will eventually lead to 2 major things: 1) Secrecy. Right now information and knowledge are being shared freely between almost all mod authors, just because it helps modding to grow and expand, ends up in better quality mods. Add money into the formula and you end up with lack of information, tools, tips&tricks, etc. Why share if you can keep it to yourself and have a monopoly on, let's say, animation mods for Fallout 4? Another example - if you're a programmer and don't want your code to be used for monetary gain, how do you prevent people from using it (code, after all, is easy to steal and get away with, like some popular "authors" do on F4 scene lol)? Answer - obfuscate\remove the source, and it all stays free. 2) Quantity over quality. System abuse. Why work harder on a complex mod if there's real possibility to get most downloads with lowest effort, and users still gonna love it? Important thing: popularity != quality. Endless armors and weapons nifskope mash-ups, rule-of-cool small mods that catch an eye, etc. I'm not saying these types of mods are bad. But increasing amount of them leads to decreasing number of, let's say, quest mods. Or general gameplay mods. When you have these two forces in action on a constant basis, only result is decay. p.s. Right now we have people that are abusing "HOT files" that works in a similar way: popularity. Imagine money involvement. Hot files abuse will be a joke in comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Community Manager Dark0ne Posted December 20, 2017 Author Community Manager Share Posted December 20, 2017 In response to post #56122091. Reveal hidden contents Quote Xilandro wrote: This will turn ugly real fast. Operating on fact "people have been doing it for free, why'd they start caring that much for money" is also very wrong, authors that would love to get some money for their work didn't had a choice to charge\get something back. "Do it for free or get out" was their only option. Except CC, but that's the story for another day.System will change the mindset of a lot of such authors, introducing unhealthy competition in modding community. And it will eventually lead to 2 major things:1) Secrecy. Right now information and knowledge are being shared freely between almost all mod authors, just because it helps modding to grow and expand, ends up in better quality mods. Add money into the formula and you end up with lack of information, tools, tips&tricks, etc. Why share if you can keep it to yourself and have a monopoly on, let's say, animation mods for Fallout 4? Another example - if you're a programmer and don't want your code to be used for monetary gain, how do you prevent people from using it (code, after all, is easy to steal and get away with, like some popular "authors" do on F4 scene lol)? Answer - obfuscate\remove the source, and it all stays free.2) Quantity over quality. System abuse. Why work harder on a complex mod if there's real possibility to get most downloads with lowest effort, and users still gonna love it? Important thing: popularity != quality. Endless armors and weapons nifskope mash-ups, rule-of-cool small mods that catch an eye, etc. I'm not saying these types of mods are bad. But increasing amount of them leads to decreasing number of, let's say, quest mods. Or general gameplay mods. When you have these two forces in action on a constant basis, only result is decay. p.s. Right now we have people that are abusing "HOT files" that works in a similar way: popularity. Imagine money involvement. Hot files abuse will be a joke in comparison.What's "Hot file abuse" and how does it work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilandro Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 In response to post #56122091. #56122171 is also a reply to the same post. Reveal hidden contents Quote Xilandro wrote: This will turn ugly real fast. Operating on fact "people have been doing it for free, why'd they start caring that much for money" is also very wrong, authors that would love to get some money for their work didn't had a choice to charge\get something back. "Do it for free or get out" was their only option. Except CC, but that's the story for another day.System will change the mindset of a lot of such authors, introducing unhealthy competition in modding community. And it will eventually lead to 2 major things:1) Secrecy. Right now information and knowledge are being shared freely between almost all mod authors, just because it helps modding to grow and expand, ends up in better quality mods. Add money into the formula and you end up with lack of information, tools, tips&tricks, etc. Why share if you can keep it to yourself and have a monopoly on, let's say, animation mods for Fallout 4? Another example - if you're a programmer and don't want your code to be used for monetary gain, how do you prevent people from using it (code, after all, is easy to steal and get away with, like some popular "authors" do on F4 scene lol)? Answer - obfuscate\remove the source, and it all stays free.2) Quantity over quality. System abuse. Why work harder on a complex mod if there's real possibility to get most downloads with lowest effort, and users still gonna love it? Important thing: popularity != quality. Endless armors and weapons nifskope mash-ups, rule-of-cool small mods that catch an eye, etc. I'm not saying these types of mods are bad. But increasing amount of them leads to decreasing number of, let's say, quest mods. Or general gameplay mods. When you have these two forces in action on a constant basis, only result is decay. p.s. Right now we have people that are abusing "HOT files" that works in a similar way: popularity. Imagine money involvement. Hot files abuse will be a joke in comparison. Quote Dark0ne wrote: What's "Hot file abuse" and how does it work?In short - there are some authors that are trying to get all their mods into hot files. Bulk release. It's not harmful, but as a matter of fact - it exists. I know a lot of fellow authors cringe and judge it when they see it, even if they smile in that author's face and say "Yay cool! Congrats on 4/5 hotfiles!". Know your community much? Why not let RNG decide? Let's say, you have 1500 mod authors active last month (with some "entry" rules, that prevents new account releases abuse), and if you have 10K$ pool + whatever users put in the pool - RNG 200 authors and share money between them. 50$ each. Or run RNG to pick 400 authors and each will get 25$. It's also not a perfect system, but it eliminates major problems of the "downloads amount = money amount" system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niborino9409 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) On 12/20/2017 at 11:44 AM, Xilandro said: 2) Quantity over quality. System abuse. Why work harder on a complex mod if there's real possibility to get most downloads with lowest effort, and users still gonna love it? Important thing: popularity != quality. Endless armors and weapons nifskope mash-ups, rule-of-cool small mods that catch an eye, etc. I'm not saying these types of mods are bad. But increasing amount of them leads to decreasing number of, let's say, quest mods. Or general gameplay mods. When you have these two forces in action on a constant basis, only result is decay. p.s. Right now we have people that are abusing "HOT files" that works in a similar way: popularity. Imagine money involvement. Hot files abuse will be a joke in comparison.Regarding point # 2, you forget that that not all authors will mod for points. There's a demographic that mod for their own sake too. Like I'm not going to start churning out big boob followers just because that would yield more points. I'd rather do mods that I like to do regardless of the points. And I'm hoping more authors think that way too, we all started and stayed cause it was fun and we enjoy it. And I second that, what's "Hot files abuse"? :huh: Edited December 20, 2017 by Niborino9409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilli1 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 As someone who ported a couple of mods to SSE and made translations I would NEVER accept donations in any form. I am porting mods because I love the game and I don't want to make money with it. Mainly I port over mods for my game and I want to share it with the community. It is a hobby and not a kind of making money. I see rather the problem that it will be more difficult to get permissions from the original-authors to port-over mods. When someone would ask me - I would be distrustful from now on. The first thing I would think after implementing the new donations-system would be "He want to make money with MY stuff". When I would be foreced to get any donation-points here, the only possibility would be to transfer it to the original-authors. Should this not be possible I would quit to publish any mods and transfer all my ports to the care-taker. My personal opinion is: I disagree with the complete new donation-system. We don't need this at all. This is a place for FREE mods. Any kind of donation-system would destroy this principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xilandro Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) In response to post #56122481. Reveal hidden contents Quote Niborino9409 wrote: On 12/20/2017 at 11:44 AM, Xilandro said: 2) Quantity over quality. System abuse. Why work harder on a complex mod if there's real possibility to get most downloads with lowest effort, and users still gonna love it? Important thing: popularity != quality. Endless armors and weapons nifskope mash-ups, rule-of-cool small mods that catch an eye, etc. I'm not saying these types of mods are bad. But increasing amount of them leads to decreasing number of, let's say, quest mods. Or general gameplay mods.When you have these two forces in action on a constant basis, only result is decay.p.s. Right now we have people that are abusing "HOT files" that works in a similar way: popularity. Imagine money involvement. Hot files abuse will be a joke in comparison.Regarding point # 2, you forget that that not all authors will mod for points. There's a demographic that mod for their own sake too. Like I'm not going to start churning out big boob followers just because that would yield more points. I'd rather do mods that I like to do regardless of the points. And I'm hoping more authors think that way too, we all started and stayed cause it was fun and we enjoy it. And I second that, what's "Hot files abuse"? :huh:You can't talk for everyone, that's the problem. Only thing that I know for sure - money changes the way people think. Even the best of us can fall for it. about hotfiles abuse - read my reply to Dark0ne Edited December 20, 2017 by Xilandro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niborino9409 Posted December 20, 2017 Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) On 12/20/2017 at 12:17 PM, Xilandro said: In response to post #56122481. Reveal hidden contents Quote Niborino9409 wrote: Regarding point # 2, you forget that that not all authors will mod for points. There's a demographic that mod for their own sake too. Like I'm not going to start churning out big boob followers just because that would yield more points. I'd rather do mods that I like to do regardless of the points. And I'm hoping more authors think that way too, we all started and stayed cause it was fun and we enjoy it. 2) Quantity over quality. System abuse. Why work harder on a complex mod if there's real possibility to get most downloads with lowest effort, and users still gonna love it? Important thing: popularity != quality. Endless armors and weapons nifskope mash-ups, rule-of-cool small mods that catch an eye, etc. I'm not saying these types of mods are bad. But increasing amount of them leads to decreasing number of, let's say, quest mods. Or general gameplay mods. When you have these two forces in action on a constant basis, only result is decay. p.s. Right now we have people that are abusing "HOT files" that works in a similar way: popularity. Imagine money involvement. Hot files abuse will be a joke in comparison. And I second that, what's "Hot files abuse"? :huh:You can't talk for everyone, that's the problem. Only thing that I know for sure - money changes the way people think. Even the best of us can fall for it. about hotfiles abuse - read my reply to Dark0ne True, but neither can you. I'm hoping for the best :yes: That's why I put a line through it since I saw it above. Edited December 20, 2017 by Niborino9409 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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