Giving up on Vortex for now

[Tannin42]

 

 

I often have to help correct player's load order when they come to my Fallout 4 mod page because of LOOT. They say "LOOT put it here..." and I have to politely explain to them that LOOT is wrong, put it there. And they do and go "it works!". My mod is designed to be loaded a particular way, under particular mods, and above others. LOOT puts it at the top of the load order, which is the worst place it could be and practically guarantees it will be broken. How that is helpful or good IDK. Now they are going to have to set priorities...

 

 

And if you had put that knowledge into the loot masterlist, which you can do, you wouldn't have to answer it ever again because loot would stop putting it in the wrong place. See, better. QED

[nexususer01]

 

Then there is a super easy solution. From now on all mods uploaded to the Nexus must absolutely have a LOOT rule uploaded as well. Mods failing to do so will be rejected immediately.

 

Hahahaha. Anymore ridiculous suggestions?

 

 

You think I'm joking? No-no! In the future you'll only be able to install mods from the Nexus. And since everyone will be uploading LOOT rules, Nexus will know what is the best for you! Imagine a world without conflicts! You just one-click-download-install a mod, and everything will just work. No issues, no conflicts, no worries, and definitely no dragging lines around. You won't have to think and solve problems because Vortex, the hammer of Nexus will make sure that everything works just fine!

[Tannin42]

You wrote: "Just because it was a feature in other tools doesn't mean it was a feature that was required or good to have. If anything, I would argue it's sloppy and it created a community full of people who rather do it the sloppy way even though there is a better way that exists. It's like a bad habit. Load order is only about working with conflicts."

I think you not even understood about what we discussed. You speak about load order. Load order means the ordering of the plugins. However we discussed about install order. That means the ordering of the mods.

I think you're not even reading before you reply. Brabbit responed to Oblitus who specifically quoted LOOT as doing this before and that it had been done so he was obviously talking about load order for plugins.

 

You wrote: "If you feel the need to sort every single mod in a particular order, it means you are doing it wrong. It means you are using the feature for something it was never even intended for."

I use the installation order in MO2 once for organization and once to resolve conflicts. Why? It is the only way to keep an overview. So don't tell me it is wrong.

Just because you have been edoing something doesn't mean it isn't wrong. using the install order for organization is wrong.

 

You wrote: "There really is no reason to have the capability to move all the mods into some random order in your load order because that isn't what it's meant for."

You don't need mod organization? Fine. When you can keep an overview using thousands of mods which are all in disorder then you are godlike perhaps. I can't. I need to have the mods visually organized.

Brabbit is talking about load order not plugin order.

No one said you don't need mod organization. No one said you're not getting improvements in Vortex to do mod organization.

The only thing that has been said is that you can't abuse install order for mod organization, so stop trying to create a narrative that's simply not true.

 

You wrote "And the reason Vortex doesn't have the feature now is because it's no longer needed because we have better tools for the job."

No. This is exactly the problem. There are no tools or features to organize. Vortex does not offer an organization feature yet. But Tannin said he's working on it. So I'm looking forward to it.

And it would help immensly if people would start talking about how best to do mod organization (because maybe we can do even better than drag&drop ordering) instead of

falsly claiming I had abolished it and didn't understand the need.

 

You wrote: "People wanting to do it the old way instead of moving forward..."

There is no "new" way doing it yet.

Incorrect. You can do mod organization using the mod name, using categories (which you can customize) and using the mod highlighting column. All these features can be used to organize

your mod list and keep it manageable.

If you need more it would be great if you could describe the shortcomings of the current mechanisms so we can analyze how to address them instead of repeatedly demanding everything

stays like it was as if nothing could ever be improved.

I.e. if you want to see your texture mods in one block, why not assign the corresponding category and sort by category? What's so bad about that?

[SwedishTom]

Darn, the more I read about Vortex the more I wish I had tried and got my hands on a copy to fiddle around with. But I'm not a modder and neither a hard core gamer so never bothered, thought others would be better having one since it was a limited supply of them. Can't wait until the 12th of February to come around though and hopefully get one then, So looking forward to see what all the fuss is about. :tongue:

[Ethreon]

 

 

Then there is a super easy solution. From now on all mods uploaded to the Nexus must absolutely have a LOOT rule uploaded as well. Mods failing to do so will be rejected immediately.

 

Hahahaha. Anymore ridiculous suggestions?

 

 

You think I'm joking? No-no! In the future you'll only be able to install mods from the Nexus. And since everyone will be uploading LOOT rules, Nexus will know what is the best for you! Imagine a world without conflicts! You just one-click-download-install a mod, and everything will just work. No issues, no conflicts, no worries, and definitely no dragging lines around. You won't have to think and solve problems because Vortex, the hammer of Nexus will make sure that everything works just fine!

 

 

I can't tell if this is a joke or not.

[flatline00]

 

You think I'm joking? No-no! In the future you'll only be able to install mods from the Nexus. And since everyone will be uploading LOOT rules, Nexus will know what is the best for you! Imagine a world without conflicts! You just one-click-download-install a mod, and everything will just work. No issues, no conflicts, no worries, and definitely no dragging lines around. You won't have to think and solve problems because Vortex, the hammer of Nexus will make sure that everything works just fine!

 

 

And how in your system, does it manage mods from other sources ?

 

 

 

 

Darn, the more I read about Vortex the more I wish I had tried and got my hands on a copy to fiddle around with. But I'm not a modder and neither a hard core gamer so never bothered, thought others would be better having one since it was a limited supply of them. Can't wait until the 12th of February to come around though and hopefully get one then, So looking forward to see what all the fuss is about. :tongue:

 

Me too. :happy:

[Oblitus]

 

 

 

Then there is a super easy solution. From now on all mods uploaded to the Nexus must absolutely have a LOOT rule uploaded as well. Mods failing to do so will be rejected immediately.

Hahahaha. Anymore ridiculous suggestions?

 

You think I'm joking? No-no! In the future you'll only be able to install mods from the Nexus. And since everyone will be uploading LOOT rules, Nexus will know what is the best for you! Imagine a world without conflicts! You just one-click-download-install a mod, and everything will just work. No issues, no conflicts, no worries, and definitely no dragging lines around. You won't have to think and solve problems because Vortex, the hammer of Nexus will make sure that everything works just fine!

 

I can't tell if this is a joke or not.

 

Poe's Law: it is impossible to create a parody of extreme views so obviously exaggerated that it cannot be mistaken by some readers or viewers as a sincere expression of the parodied views.

 

It may or may not be a joke, but this is the only way how Vortex can actually do its job.

[nexususer01]

I can't tell if this is a joke or not.

 

It was a joke, of course. :)

And the message I tried to hide behind my lines are targeted for the Nexus developers.

 

Reading through these forums currenlty all I see is a new mod manager that is more for the Nexus site itself and not for the mod users and mod developers. What they have to realise is that people will use the tool that is best for their needs and if a tool isn't helpful in the problem they are supposed to solve, well they won't be using it... Well, many will, but just because the Nexus user count is massive.

 

The other thing I don't like is that this tool currently has many problems. Many of that I (as a lead developer myself) consider bugs or developer shortsightness. It's not a problem because Vortex is in an alpha stage. They released it to get feedbacks and instead of considering these feedbacks they are convincing their users saying that these issues are not really issues but more like features and we are using the tool incorrectly.

 

 

And how in your system, does it manage mods from other sources ?

 

You'll get banned for doing that! ;)

[Deleted133263User]

 

What they have to realise is that people will use the tool that is best for their needs and if a tool isn't helpful in the problem they are supposed to solve, well they won't be using it... Well, many will, but just because the Nexus user count is massive.

 

 

The other thing I don't like is that this tool currently has many problems. Many of that I (as a lead developer myself) consider bugs or developer shortsightness.

 

My bold - I'm sure they already realise that, Tannin the lead developer is a clever chap and really experienced in some very advanced topics on the micromanagement of a games setup and its often unique complications. They are catering for the majority of Nexus users and creating a tool which will do the job of easily installing mods without breaking their game, for all of the games supported by Nexus. The more advanced features you introduce, the more chance it can be abused and broken by the user.

 

Most of the complaints are coming from people expecting Vortex to be the next MO (which Tannin originally authored), when it is actually a replacement for Nexus Mod Manager, and a lot more advanced than its predecessor which did quite well at being the dominant Mod Manager for Nexus users.

 

As a lead developer yourself if the issues you know of are not on this list .. Then open up your own topic and list them for the benefit of development.

[VaultBoyAM]

You guys realise Vortex has support for third party extensions right? I'm in no way a programmer but I don't think it's too far fetched to assume we'll have some third party extensions to make it do what we want it do, eventually. Like drag and drop load ordering and support for other mod sites (possibly, that one might not happen).

And as for right now, we already use 12+ different tools to mod Skyrim, you know you could just disable auto sort and fire up Wrye Bash to drag and drop plugins?