Giving up on Vortex for now

[Hilli1]

You can simply change the name of the mod in the decription window of the mod.

 

On a different note will mod renaming be supported? I did not find a way to rename them even after poking around a bit.

[soupdragon1234]

I'm sorry I just cannot understand why removing manual sorting of mod load orders would be considered a good idea. Its one of of the main reasons I stopped letting Steam handling my mod order list/install mods and switched to NMM in the first place its Plugins column is simple, visually clear and straightforward to use, and intelligent enough to not let you move plugins above any dependencies in the LO.

 

Not letting you manually sort order instead relying on a LOOT style meta-load-before-or-after some other mod is utterly counterintuitive and I've never been able to figure out its rules anyhow, I just let LOOT do its thing and then manually sort any mods that I need to with NMM afterwards. If I'm working on a mod its at the bottom of my load order regardless because I don't want any of its records overwritten by any other mod thats one conflict I can do without. I want control.

 

It is however part of a trend in computing these days however the nanny-knows-best attitude. Microsoft is the same with its force-every-windows-update-on-you-whether-you-like-it-or-not, it treats users as idiots that can't be trusted to do the most basic things with their machines and I don't like it and its one of the reasons I'm still on Windows 7, for now at anyrate.

 

Honestly if this is the future for Vortex then I'll have to learn to use Wyre or MO2 or anything else instead that lets me do what I want with my own load order, because manually rearranging the plugins.txt load order list with Notepad is beyond tedious.

 

 

Before this thead turns into a mutual incomprehension fest, there is a simple solution for people who want to use Vortex and still do manual load ordering. It doesn't require any software changes at all. Interested?

 

You just launch Vortex and NMM at the same time, use Vortex to do all the installing and enabling, let it do what it likes with the load order, then drag-and-drop the plugins around in the NMM plugins tab. The changes are instant and Vortex updates its plugin window to reflect your changes.

 

Job done.

 

Except that for every newer title that comes along it'll be left further and further behind my (very old) copy of NMM doesn't recognise Skyrim SE for example.

[Ethreon]

FOMM is probably getting ported further, and there's a few utilities that are just simple manage-install without extra fluff. You can do a search here or on google.

[Qwinn]

I agree drag nd drop install order is a much bigger deal than plugin order. Single best feature of MO.

 

Tannin: imagine 6 mods containing at least some landscape textures, all with varying amounts of conflicting files. Depending on which mods overwrite (which until we get file by file overwrite, is basically just the mod install order), some textures are replaced by others, some textures look better on their own but the seams between other textures get worse, etc.

 

When I was figuring out the ideal order to prioritise these mods in MO, I'd test an order, exit game, switch the order of a couple of the texture mods, check in game, back out, switch order, etc. Every different install order resulted in slightly different landscape, seams etc.

 

If you already know exactly what you want your final priority order to be, setting it up once via your dependencies isn't that bad. But when you go in to check what the effect of prioritizing each different mods textures and how they combine several dozen times, it seems it would become WAY more cumbersome. The drag and drop method of re- prioritizing the texture mods is definitely the fastest and most efficient way of carrying out tests like that.

[AL12]

 

On a different note will mod renaming be supported? I did not find a way to rename them even after poking around a bit.

 

You can rename mods. Double click the mod and a sidebar will show up with info about that mod. There you can change the mod name.

 

Thanks I missed that one. Maybe add a tip somewhere? I can imagine other people not finding it too if it is not advertised.

[BlackAlbum007]

Hello

I'm a very low level end user of Vortex ... I don't really understand much of what is spoken about even in this one topic ... but ...

 

In my time I've been forced to use NMM, MO, WB, MO2 and now Vortex just so I can play a couple of games I bought on Steam.

I'm an elderly gamer with very little computer skills at my disposal but thanks to many helpful users on the steam forums I can slowly get by.

 

I found MO the easiest to understand ... although there are little features from WB that are also very useful.

 

My point is that everything is a struggle to someone like me ... it often helps that LOOT can show me the way forward but I'd also like some control so I can continue to learn things.

Manual placement really helps me not be confused by all the info I have to process.

 

If I can give you an example:

My process of installing a mod via either MO or WB is ...

I install the mod and place it at the bottom of my list just above my bashed patch and run LOOT. Sometimes LOOT will move it up, sometimes LOOT will move esps below my new mod and other times it will just leave it where it is.

I take a note of this but don't "APPLY"

Then I move the mod to the top of my list and run LOOT again ... sometimes it leaves it other times it will move the mod down.

But because of this I have an idea of which mods interact with the new mod and can decide where I'd like it (within certain parameters) in my list.

if I'd just let LOOT sort it from the bottom of my list all the mods would be in the correct position but as I've discovered ... it's not the only correct position available.

with time and patience I can create a load order that is correct and still mostly in an order I can understand.

I'm in Fallout 4 atm ... I can group mods that add items to the workshop together so I can stare at them for hours on end ... trying to decide what to add next.

You see, for some of us, we can't recall everything we did from months ago when we built this mod list ... it really helps if it not just what appears to be a random set of mods that appear to have no logical order to them ... it's actually something I've built ... not something a computer has done for me which I now don't understand. It could be just two mods ... for example ... snappystep and snappystepwood .... I need then to be together in my list but if I've installed them months apart them they could be 200 esps apart ... I'd like to be able to drag and drop them next to esch other ... especially as my strange LOOT system has shown me they don't interact or interfere with any other mod in my list.

It's just easier for me to understand ... I know it makes no difference but that's not the point ... I want it to work with me, work for me ... I don't want it to take full control and i don't want it to need me to do other things for it to work.

 

If I may say ... I worked in the music industry for 20 years as a producer (I've no doubt that most of you has heard some music I've produced) and then I moved into the Movie world as an Audio Restoration Engineer for my final 10 years and in that time I saw studios move from full analogue to digital. When I could finally group my 16 overdubs of strings into one area of the desk ... it was better for me ... it didn't affect the mix in anyway .. it just made my job easier.

I feel the same about my load order builds when I have 300 mods with over 200 esps to manage ... I need it to work with me ... I don't want to fight with it.

 

I'll happily take whatever Tannin decides to give us ... it's the start of the future ... it won't be perfect yet but it will evolve over time.

MO was the doorway to my understanding how these mods worked together ... NMM was just chuck things at the wall and hoped they'd stick.

So I understand when Tannin asks for a bit of understanding with his new vision ... but that doesn't mean we can't request he replay an old favourite and make the fans happy (ie: Manual placement)

 

i'm sure Macca doesn't want to sing Yesterday every bloody night ... but sing it he does ... even though he thinks he wrote a much better song only last week ... etc etc

 

so Tannin ... you keep driving forward ... you'll get there ... maybe not by release day ... but without you (and LOOT or WB's bashed patch etc etc) we wouldn't be where we are today.

[kamikatze13]

Thanks I missed that one. Maybe add a tip somewhere? I can imagine other people not finding it too if it is not advertised.

iirc documentation will be available in the full release. it's part of the closed alpha to let the users figure out stuff for themselves - the less obvious/hidden things will be changed for release.

[AL12]

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@Tannin42 Yes, I know I can display the install order, however all is in disorder and I want them all in a special ordering.

Let's imagine I have 5 texure mods: A, B, C, D, E. However the install order is E-D-C-B-A. How to get them to A-B-C-D-E ? With Vortex I have to set 4 dependencies (load B after A, load C after B, load D after C and load E after D) instead of simply drag and drop the files in the right position. At the next day I download mod BB and I want this mod to have between mod B and C. Then I would have to set the next rule for mod C (load C after BB) and a rule for mod BB (load BB after B). Now imagine you have to handle 1000 mods this way. This is why I said it is impossible to setup a large modlist this way.

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But this is exactly the reason I removed manual mod ordering! install ordering your texture mods A B C D E without a conflict between them just for organisational purposes is wrong, it's misusing the feature. This is supposed to be painful because it's not what this feature is for. If I could I would make Vortex slap you for every time you do this. It's like complaining your toothbrush is bad for cleaning your floors.

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If you want to visually order your mods this is a separate feature and we can talk about it separately but this thread is about load ordering, a feature for resolving conflicts and nothing else.

What you want and what you're asking for are not the same thing! You're asking me for free form load ordering so you can do visual ordering with it.

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Yes that is exactly what people are asking, a way to visually resolve their mods conflicts. Sequential ordering with drag and drop is a solution that people know to work very well for them. Its easy intuitive and fast and they don't see way it would not be acceptable to use it if they know what they are doing just because somebody else doesn't.

But if you say you can offer an alternative in the future that does not have the issues that the MO approach has but offers the same level of usability and immediacy, then that is alright. I don't expect the alfa to be a completed product.

The important thing is that a good number of people don't seem satisfied with the current approach they have to take for conflict resolution, as it is not as immediate and visually intuitive as other existing solutions to which they are used to by now.

I hope this is what gets through and that it can be addressed in the future by offering alternative options or expanding the existing system.

 

Edit: I would be interested in discussing the options, maybe in an appropriate topic so that people can voice their opinions.

Edited February 2, 2018 by al12rs

[witfull]

my 2 cents, dont like it at all.

[dwcool62]

From an outsider lookin in, it looks like another 6 months at least. I'm already scared to touch it.