Trump

[Lisnpuppy]

Let's hop it's just "sabre rattling" and Putin and XI aren't really seriously considering open conflict. That crap could get out of hand REAL quick, and it could also embolden some smaller players.

 

Despite the fact that I agree, Trump was a w@nker, The US itself was still a "power" in the world even with him in charge (mainly because of his unpredictability)

And please don't start the absolute BS about "the world was laughing" pushed by the MSM. They may have giggled like a child about Trumps stupid twitter posts, but they were NOT brave enough to push his, or America's buttons so to speak.

 

With that absolute demetia addled, incompetent, old southern style racist Biden in "the big seat" though, I'm not as confident, and as an Aussie who's country is in vastly more precarious a position, it owrries me.

How the hell do you get Biden as a southern style racist? Am I having a seizure and misunderstanding your post? Biden, from the Northeast has had a LONG relationship with communities of color, especially southern black communities. Black voters overwhelmingly voted for Biden. If you think Biden is incompetent then what was Trump?

 

And yes, America still is a power. There is still much money here. But America was once a power not just because of our military or our money....once they were a power of ideas, a power convincing the rest of the world that democracy worked and the way America did things was a great idea that worked. We were seen as trustworthy allies who made a promise and kept it. I doubt it is that way now. Sure, the world is still playing footsie with the U.S. but that is because of Putin and Xi and their growing power. It is not because they are so worried about ours anymore.

[HeyYou]

Black voters overwhelmingly vote democrat in any event, so, that isn't really any indication of how much they like him. The dems are the ones that like to hand out the gimmes....... So yeah, they tend to be popular.

 

But democracy DOESN'T work. :D It's good for the short term, but, in the end, democracies tend to eat themselves from the inside. Once they run out of other peoples money to spend, they collapse. Which is what I expect to happen here in the next couple decades. :D

[Perraine]

You disappoint me Lisnpuppy, I actually had a higher level of respect for your opinion until now. Biden is a born and raised "Southern Style Democrat". There is no getting around that, and trying to pretend it isn't true, just makes you look silly. He was raised and mentored by the KKK, and has always been a segregationist. Need I remind you of "If you don't vote for me, you ain't Black"?

 

He was raised to have a condescending opinion of POC, and I've see no evidence to alter that fact. BTW, that doesn't mean I'm contending that he "hates" POC, he just has an ingrained, probably unconscious, lower opinion of them, Just like you can like your pet dog, but don't consider them an equal. That's why I prefixed with "southern style" racist, as it goes all the way back to the original southern Democrat politicians.

 

But, yeah, America has been the best "social experiment" in civilizations so far IMHO, certainly better or at least equal too all others, (I'd content that Australia has been pretty good too, although the influence of certain ideologies has eroded that lately) and I still have hope that it can be saved. It's not without it's faults, no system will ever be "perfect", but I hope it lasts long enough to be able to adapt.

[Lisnpuppy]

Black voters overwhelmingly vote democrat in any event, so, that isn't really any indication of how much they like him. The dems are the ones that like to hand out the gimmes....... So yeah, they tend to be popular.

 

But democracy DOESN'T work. :D It's good for the short term, but, in the end, democracies tend to eat themselves from the inside. Once they run out of other peoples money to spend, they collapse. Which is what I expect to happen here in the next couple decades. :D

 

 

HeyYou, made a fair point on how black voters sway typically and perhaps it not being an indicator. There were parts of the black community who are critical of Biden and his past and current policies (as they should be) but they saved his campaign and got him into the white house. I have not seen the black community completely abandon Biden at any point in his career. They've called him out at times, they have pointed to disappointing policy or what has not gone far enough. But their voices, like many others are stifled through redistricting and voting restrictions like time and place, amount of polling places and more. Of course, almost every single democracy/republic has gone the way of the Dodo. The longest existing ones are like the Isle of Man and some Faroe Island which both have really, really small populations. I still hold out some hope, but is democracy the best way to run a country? You could debate other systems. I personally think we should do like the Athenians who drew lots, but modify it a bit. The lots of many positions should be restricted to a pool of people who have the education/experience of whatever the position needs. You start the lot draws at city or country level and draw to see who moves up to the state level and who stays in a position in the town/county, rinse and repete up to the feds. People lacking certain skills or whatever can still be drawn for assembly and have a block of votes for laws on whatever level they are on.

 

I think it could actually work with some thought. Democracy has a few fatal flaws and Achilles' heels.

 

1) People are kinda of dumb and lazy. That means they do not bother to learn about the world and how it works. You don't have to know everything but you should learn about the people running things, what they say/do, generally how the government/Constitution really works.

2) A nation this large it is difficult to vote because you can't get to know people on a more personal basis. 3) A government whose real primary democratic safeguards are ethical or procedural will fall apart. After Nixon the DoJ made a bunch of procedure and ethic changes, ethics departments and inspectors generals were created with no real power. Once you get someone corrupt enough that crap falls apart.

4) The Consitution allows the three branches of government which provides separation of powers between them. They are supposed to be checks and balances but if the branches are unwilling or unable the system breaks down as there is no law that actually says they should do this or not do that. Also, this separation of powers (while great if it works) also serves to cause more polarization and stalemate.

5) Again due to #4 gridlock is caused and the two-party system combines with this prevents anything good. If we have a modified parliamentary system where a prime minister was elected from within, they could get more done.

6) we have discussed term-limits before. It needs to happen from supreme court justice on down. No elected politicians or elected or appointed judges should have lifetime appointments or be able to run for office again and again and again.

 

Social media is the devil's work when it comes to politics.

 

Trump's presidency showed the real weaknesses in our system. As I said before, it was only the incompetence of he and his that saved anything.

 

 

You disappoint me Lisnpuppy, I actually had a higher level of respect for your opinion until now. Biden is a born and raised "Southern Style Democrat". There is no getting around that, and trying to pretend it isn't true, just makes you look silly. He was raised and mentored by the KKK, and has always been a segregationist. Need I remind you of "If you don't vote for me, you ain't Black"?

 

He was raised to have a condescending opinion of POC, and I've see no evidence to alter that fact. BTW, that doesn't mean I'm contending that he "hates" POC, he just has an ingrained, probably unconscious, lower opinion of them, Just like you can like your pet dog, but don't consider them an equal. That's why I prefixed with "southern style" racist, as it goes all the way back to the original southern Democrat politicians.

 

But, yeah, America has been the best "social experiment" in civilizations so far IMHO, certainly better or at least equal too all others, (I'd content that Australia has been pretty good too, although the influence of certain ideologies has eroded that lately) and I still have hope that it can be saved. It's not without it's faults, no system will ever be "perfect", but I hope it lasts long enough to be able to adapt.

Perraine:

 

To begin, I disagree with everything you just said. Yes, I remember well the comment which was actually "If you have a problem figuring out whether you should vote for me or for Trump, you ain't black." While I agree it was not the brightest way to phrase that, that full statement makes more sense than the little snippet you pony-danced out. When that happened it was being discussed everywhere. Most in the community agreed that it was kinda dumb to say but few expressed that they believed it was malicious or race-baiting or anything else. Guess what, some people of color actually agreed. Donald Trump was not your friend if you were black. He did nothing for you and in many cases hurt you, so why the hell would you vote for him?

 

Now, let us address your opening comments. To begin, I did not know that you really knew me enough to respect any opinions I have or not. I have many different opinions of many things. Comes from being a historian I guess. The fact you that because you disagree with me on this one and so now you find me lacking is of no concern. I'm not going to sit and say I think less of your opinion because you don't agree. What I would say is since you felt the need to talk down to and tsk tsk me as if I was some poor misguided child, that perhaps you might indeed know about condescending attitudes and treatment since you just demonstrated it quite clearly.

[xrayy]

 

Let's hop it's just "sabre rattling" and Putin and XI aren't really seriously considering open conflict. That crap could get out of hand REAL quick, and it could also embolden some smaller players.

 

Despite the fact that I agree, Trump was a w@nker, The US itself was still a "power" in the world even with him in charge (mainly because of his unpredictability)

And please don't start the absolute BS about "the world was laughing" pushed by the MSM. They may have giggled like a child about Trumps stupid twitter posts, but they were NOT brave enough to push his, or America's buttons so to speak.

 

With that absolute demetia addled, incompetent, old southern style racist Biden in "the big seat" though, I'm not as confident, and as an Aussie who's country is in vastly more precarious a position, it owrries me.

How the hell do you get Biden as a southern style racist? Am I having a seizure and misunderstanding your post? Biden, from the Northeast has had a LONG relationship with communities of color, especially southern black communities. Black voters overwhelmingly voted for Biden. If you think Biden is incompetent then what was Trump?

 

And yes, America still is a power. There is still much money here. But America was once a power not just because of our military or our money....once they were a power of ideas, a power convincing the rest of the world that democracy worked and the way America did things was a great idea that worked. We were seen as trustworthy allies who made a promise and kept it. I doubt it is that way now. Sure, the world is still playing footsie with the U.S. but that is because of Putin and Xi and their growing power. It is not because they are so worried about ours anymore.

 

 

@lisnpuppy - i completely agree with what you posted here. it is the first time i can say that about a post since i joined and then left this thread.

[Perraine]

@Lisnpuppy

 

You not agreeing with what I stated doesn't make it any less true, and neither does showing the whole sentence surrounding my quote make it any less racist or insulting to black people. How many more instances of this FACT would you like me to quote? From his own mouth Biden has stated that he admired and was even mentored by members of the KKK and stated admiration for many other white supremacists. He is a southern Democrat to the core! Southern Democrat's, the ones who tried to stop the Civil Rights Act, Southern Democrats who fought the American Civil War to try and keep their salves (and other reasons) Biden who fought for continued segregation in schools to the detriment of black people, Biden who fought for crime laws, to the detriment of black communities, Biden, who to this day shows a continuing tendency to view PoC as lesser races. If you can't or won't see it, then that's your problem, but, again, it doesn't make it any less true.

 

Not that Republicans are much better, they tend to be more selfish and narcissistic, and the only colour they adore is green, and Trump was/is a prime example of this trend. But, that particular philosophy isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it often has the side benefit of offering far more opportunity to those willing to take it, including black people, as colour means nothing in a capitalistic, and meritocratic society.

 

As to your other claim, I condescend against nobody who I don't know and who doesn't deserve it.

But, I have been a member of this site for many years, and I have read a great many of your posts in these forums, and have always considered your posts to be well thought out, insightful, intelligent, and worthy of respect. I freely admit to feeling disappointment that you disagree with what is plainly obvious to anyone who can think critically or rationally, this is indeed my own concern, and my own opinion, and you are free to ignore it, but, again, it doesn't make it any less true, however it was never my intention to "talk down" to you in any way, so if that is the impression you got from my post, the you have my honest and sincere apologies.

[colourwheel]

 

How many more instances of this FACT would you like me to quote? From his own mouth Biden has stated that he admired and was even mentored by members of the KKK and stated admiration for many other white supremacists. He is a southern Democrat to the core! Southern Democrat's, the ones who tried to stop the Civil Rights Act, Southern Democrats who fought the American Civil War to try and keep their salves (and other reasons) Biden who fought for continued segregation in schools to the detriment of black people, Biden who fought for crime laws, to the detriment of black communities, Biden, who to this day shows a continuing tendency to view PoC as lesser races. If you can't or won't see it, then that's your problem, but, again, it doesn't make it any less true.

 

If you are referring to the association of Biden's relationship with Senator Robert Byrd, I can understand your confusion. Yet it's my suspicion that you seem to be confused with what ever propaganda you might have read into and tricked into believing some complete misinformation. Senator Robert Byrd was once affiliated with the KKK but has long renounced his ties and has even apologized and recognized his own flaws in his past life. Senator Robert Byrd even became a dynamic supporter of the Civil Rights Act.

 

Not sure what "other" members of the KKK or white supremacists you might be referring to because even doing a simple google search there isn't any thing else I could find with any credibility what so ever.

 

I not trying to convince you or anyone else what to believe. You can easily take the time to google search yourself. From what I have gathered Biden is a far cry from being in the least bit racially discriminating. It's also worth noting in the 2020 Presidential election, President Biden won specifically because of Black voters. President Biden's electoral landside victory was because he took over 87% of African American voters over Trump's measly 12%. If you are trying to convince anyone that Biden is some how a racist, you should try to find that 87% who did vote for President Biden.

Edited July 11, 2021 by colourwheel

[xrayy]

my experience in this thread was that some people completely ignore google or other publicly availabe sources and media. maybe they use special filters. i don't know. some links and the sources they posted here looked to me somehow strange and may explain their way to see "their" reality. i have to respect that - but not more. it is somehow reassuring that i am not the only one observing this. these people are in the meantime part of my ignore list. the information exchange was simply too exhausting and without any gain in valuable experience.

i wish you all a pleasant sunday.

[colourwheel]

 

my experience in this thread was that some people completely ignore google or other publicly availabe sources and media. maybe they use special filters. i don't know. some links and the sources they posted here looked to me somehow strange and may explain their way to see "their" reality. i have to respect that - but not more. it is somehow reassuring that i am not the only one observing this. these people are in the meantime part of my ignore list. the information exchange was simply too exhausting and without any gain in valuable experience.

 

There is a complete disconnect on historical teachings depending on where you live I guess and to some degree of the politicizing historical events to fit what ever narrative one wishes to believe. It reminds me of trying to watch a Dinesh D'Souza film where 99% of it was just pure propaganda trying to disguise itself as a historical documentary. I forget which film it was because I was at a friends party who got one of Dinesh D'Souza films as a joke present. We ended watching some of the film while we were drinking and completely laughing our asses off listening to Dinesh D'Souza completely whitewash American history with some weird alternative reality. Where even in the narration, Dinesh D'Souza seems to completely ignore the fact that the Republican Party and the Democratic Party completely switched platforms somewhere during the 20th century. Which realigned and proliferated a majority of African Americans to support Democratic policies. Basically if Lincoln was alive today, he probably would not still be a Republican.

Edited July 11, 2021 by colourwheel

[Lisnpuppy]

 

How many more instances of this FACT would you like me to quote? From his own mouth Biden has stated that he admired and was even mentored by members of the KKK and stated admiration for many other white supremacists. He is a southern Democrat to the core! Southern Democrat's, the ones who tried to stop the Civil Rights Act, Southern Democrats who fought the American Civil War to try and keep their salves (and other reasons) Biden who fought for continued segregation in schools to the detriment of black people, Biden who fought for crime laws, to the detriment of black communities, Biden, who to this day shows a continuing tendency to view PoC as lesser races. If you can't or won't see it, then that's your problem, but, again, it doesn't make it any less true.

 

If you are referring to the association of Biden's relationship with Senator Robert Byrd, I can understand your confusion. Yet it's my suspicion that you seem to be confused with what ever propaganda you might have read into and tricked into believing some complete misinformation. Senator Robert Byrd was once affiliated with the KKK but has long renounced his ties and has even apologized and recognized his own flaws in his past life. Senator Robert Byrd even became a dynamic supporter of the Civil Rights Act.

 

Not sure what "other" members of the KKK or white supremacists you might be referring to because even doing a simple google search there isn't any thing else I could find with any credibility what so ever.

 

I not trying to convince you or anyone else what to believe. You can easily take the time to google search yourself. From what I have gathered Biden is a far cry from being in the least bit racially discriminating. It's also worth noting in the 2020 Presidential election, President Biden won specifically because of Black voters. President Biden's electoral landside victory was because he took over 87% of African American voters over Trump's measly 12%. If you are trying to convince anyone that Biden is some how a racist, you should try to find that 87% who did vote for President Biden.

I'm not sure to what he is referring to either. Since I am actually FROM West Virgina, home of the late Senator Byrd and grew up with him being our senior senator I can say I probably know him well. He was one of those "southern democrats" that was being referred to in that post. He did, indeed renounce his KKK past. More so he actually went to President Obama and apologized for it also. But he did not just start to make convenient amends when we suddenly got a black president. It started before that. Now, we can not claim to know what is actually in someone's heart. I'm not going to do it with Byrd or Biden. We have their actions that always speak louder.

 

Has Biden said some racially insensitive things? Yes and I suspect all of us has done so at some point. While I have never considered myself racist, I realized because of my daughter (who is 23) that systemic, ingrained racism is part of American culture. It often gets dressed up in nice packages that we can ignore. The statement referred to for which I gave the complete quote I think shows that Biden did not use that as some racist dog whistle as the context is plain. I also don't think it was completely the best move. I simply do not and have never seen Joe Biden engage in deliberately racist behavior and if someone could show me something I'd be happy to look it over. I have found criticism of his policies from the black communities and I have said that there is every right for it to be so. Regardless of your opinion of Biden as president in his general policies as democrat or leftward learning, I really do not see deliberate racist in that.

 

I live in West Virgina that has a extremely low non-white population. My own mother never even spoke to a person of color until she was an adult. Not because she avoided it, but because there were none around. My high school had about 1,000 students of which perhaps 20 were black and maybe 10 more than were non-white (asian, etc.) Still yet many of the capital riot stories belong to people from my state, much to my embarrassment. Daily I can pass neighbors, people on the street, homes which have an American flag and a Confederate flag both flying. It is shameful.

 

@ Perraine- and just because YOUR opinion differs from mine does not make it true either. Please feel free to show me things that communities of color find racist and condescending about Biden. And perhaps you did not mean to be condescending to me...that is not how it came out. Hmmm...

 

As HeyYou said and I noted as an actual valid point, blacks do tend to vote democrat. And in the general election we may expect them to do so regardless of canidate. It was the primaries that are more telling. Biden was lagging behind, there were multiple people of color that could have been voted for at the time including now VP Kamala Harris. But when they all got to South Carolina it all changed and it did so because of the black democratic turnout. It was the black community that got Biden put on that ticket even when given the choice of other candidates.

 

Getting back to Donald Trump which is what this thread is about... I think his actions towards minorities is pretty clear. His talk of "good people" on both sides of things like what happened in Charlottsville, how he talked about BLM protesters, his insistence on calling covid the "China Virus" and his defense of Kyle Rittenhouse who crossed state lines with a firearm he should not have had and killed and injured people tells us all we need to know. I don't even think I have to drone on about the many racist dog whistles and signals to white supremacists he made as pointed out not be me, but by the black community.