impossible to copy game setup to another computer!

[SkunkMonkey]

BTW. VFS? Dunno what the post above was. On about? The VFS I am speaking of was a virtual folder. Where it actually didn't touch the data folder AT ALL! It's like mo magically on every launch of the game merged fo4 data and it's own data folder to work.

 

 

VFS = Virtual File System. Both MO and Vortex use such systems. MO uses one they created, Vortex uses the one that is been built-in to Windows. They do the exact same thing, the only difference is there is no requirement for Vortex to be running to access your modded install.

 

You could always hit Purge just before exiting and hit Deploy just after starting Vortex and you will get the MO behavior.

[Tannin42]

Well, the term "VFS" was basically misused in the context of MO to make it easier to talk about it.

In reality a VFS is an abstraction layer above the real filesystem which can have different purposes, it doesn't have to implement layering like MO does (e.g. a VFS could be used to encrypt or compress the content of a filesystem).

MO doesn't have an abstraction layer above the filesystem, it's an abstraction layer on the api, whereas Vortex uses mechanisms included in the original FS to simulate layering.

From the technical side one could argue that neither is an actual VFS, but that's just hair-splitting.

Both achieve a similar effect: File overwrites can be adjusted at any time without reinstalling a mod and enabling/disabling mods or switching profiles is possible and takes very little time.

MO has the advantage that the data directory is always clean but has the disadvantage that applications that should see the mods need to be run from MO and therefore need to be supported by it.

Vortex has the advantage that it doesn't have to be running for applications to work but you need an additional button click to get a clean data directory.

[SkunkMonkey]

I was trying to over simplify as from the user experience, there is no difference. Most people couldn't tell the difference from driving a gasoline vs diesel car other than at the pump even though the systems are very different in some technical aspects.

 

Also, I don't get the whole clean directory at all times concept. It's not like you can't achieve that with a few clicks. Especially when weighed with the convenience of being able to run any app and have it see the modded install without depending on other applications or black magic f*#@ery.

[kamikatze13]

I was trying to over simplify as from the user experience, there is no difference. Most people couldn't tell the difference from driving a gasoline vs diesel car other than at the pump even though the systems are very different in some technical aspects.

 

Also, I don't get the whole clean directory at all times concept. It's not like you can't achieve that with a few clicks. Especially when weighed with the convenience of being able to run any app and have it see the modded install without depending on other applications or black magic f*#@ery.

 

you can always just nuke your install from the orbit and redownload, worst case. sure. but the idea is that you had a guarantee if you don't launch MO, you got vanilla skyrim. in an instant. as pristine as it gets.

with VO? i am convinced that the `purge` is essentially the same, even though the empty folders don't get removed - but what if it fails, quietly? what if i waste a day on debugging and wondering why even vanilla misbehaves, only to find out i had a leftover file? i can't recall it happening with MO's black magic and yet to encounter it in VO, but that additional abstraction layer is also a mental game: it's all about peace of mind, really.

 

also, hardlinks != "vfs", but tannin already covered that.

[SkunkMonkey]

Orphaned files and folders are definitely an issue and is a problem that is very difficult to remedy from the mod managers side of the issue. Anything created outside the manager will be unknown to it and therefore won't be managed until some process is run to find them. This can be a rather intensive operation given some games can have thousands of files. How often do you run this? Do you force it or allow user initiation? What do you do with new files? What about missing ones? Modified ones?

 

The optimal solution would be better integration with mods and utilities that modify and create files. I believe the author of FNIS and Tannin were working on integration not only in running from within Vortex, but also handling the output files. Mod authors also need to provide proper install scripts. Some of them are.. um... well, bad, just plain bad.

 

If you really want a vanilla file/folder master reset, your best bet is a true backup that can be restored. It is really the only way to be sure you are going back to the original state and not have to worry about any added, deleted, or modified data. No need to reinvent the wheel and bloat Vortex with features that are easily found in software designed to do just that. Maintaining backups and snapshots of your game files is best left to a backup/restore program. I mean, you *are* doing backups of your important data, right? What do you mean? You don't back up all that por... um.. those family photos?! :devil:

[kamikatze13]

Orphaned files and folders are definitely an issue and is a problem that is very difficult to remedy from the mod managers side of the issue. Anything created outside the manager will be unknown to it and therefore won't be managed until some process is run to find them. This can be a rather intensive operation given some games can have thousands of files. How often do you run this? Do you force it or allow user initiation? What do you do with new files? What about missing ones? Modified ones?

 

The optimal solution would be better integration with mods and utilities that modify and create files. I believe the author of FNIS and Tannin were working on integration not only in running from within Vortex, but also handling the output files. Mod authors also need to provide proper install scripts. Some of them are.. um... well, bad, just plain bad.

 

If you really want a vanilla file/folder master reset, your best bet is a true backup that can be restored. It is really the only way to be sure you are going back to the original state and not have to worry about any added, deleted, or modified data. No need to reinvent the wheel and bloat Vortex with features that are easily found in software designed to do just that. Maintaining backups and snapshots of your game files is best left to a backup/restore program. I mean, you *are* doing backups of your important data, right? What do you mean? You don't back up all that por... um.. those family photos?! :devil:

 

 

 

agreed on the dedicated backup solution - i already do that for my savegames, config files and MO profile folders - gonna add the VO setting database from %appdata% i guess =P

[jhelzei]

OK, so how do I migrate a *non-standard* install? I had to install Skyrim SE and Vortex to drive D: to conserve drive space on C:. If I want to migrate this install to a new PC, what would I have to do?

 

EDIT: So I got this to work, but primarily because I was copying from a system with a secondary drive to another system with a secondary drive (IOW, from drive D: to another drive D:) But I'd still like to know, for example, if I wanted to copy it from one system installed to a secondary drive to another system's primary drive (from drive D: on one system to another system with only a drive C:)

[darkkaplah]

Ok. Similar issue to this. I have Skyrim installed on my laptop on an external drive and on an internal drive on my desktop. I'd love to play my exact modlist at my desktop, but the drive letters are different. For the most part I use the same paths, I just can't use the exact same setup on both machines.

 

Now in NMM this was a fairly easy task. Just move the mod folders over and start. With VMM I'm having issues. Just moving the %appdata%\vortex path to the new machine makes the install identical. Very useful if I have a suite of identical computers. Not so much in this case.

 

Perhaps this should be a feature request for the VMM team? Steam has an export function for downloaded games allowing you to easily save an offline copy of your game library and not repeatedly download the same games over and over to multiple machines. Maybe a similar function is required for VMM? Export the entire installed mod list as well as any rules and overwrites to a easily movable zip?

[toxsickcity]

Yes it's been months since I wrote this post. I'm back hehehe

 

Okay I wanted to update since this is still a concern for me to use vortex keeping in mind I cannot run a default setup based on my system setup. I have drive D for games... My Fileserver computer keeps games on D

My main gamerig is also on D

And is my laptop..

 

I use primocache to use 20% of my main SSD to cache drive D on all 3 systems.. so mechanical drives perform faster so to speak. (If I load games they store into SSD for next play..)

SSD is 500GB in each and have 100GB of cache assigned to mechanical drive(s)

 

I know about symlinks (vortex) etc. I use them in daily life.

One example is.

They are really good in tricking systems

Such as stupid apple crap! Windows appdata folder. iPhone backups for what ever reason don't allow you select folder to store this. It can fill a computer with a 250-500GB SSD as a windows drive in no time.

 

Symlinks allow you to basically fool windows or iTunes the folder still exsists but is actually where ever you want..

(Expensive SSDs and 100GBs of iPhone backups is stupid wasteful storage)

So I symlink the apple folder to a Mechanical drive. For my clients. That's one use case.

Another use case is

Tablet PCs with 128 or 250gb SSDs

These machines usually have a MicroSD slot to put another drive.. windows often won't allow to install programs to removable storage.. so using symlinks to create a shortcut of a folder on the microSD in Drive C of the SSD tricks windows hahaha

 

Anyways. My main issue with vortex is the purge and deploy. In past experiences and thing which stress me the most to use it.

For me the purge and deploy seemed to give me many problems (stop halfway and give vague errors and other randomness) that was one problem. It would require me to basically start over to solve that one.

(Delete game, reinstall game) it appear that symlinks were not removable like requiring safe mode to delete the files. Not 100% sure what was happening

 

Generally speaking. For trying to sync 2 PC's.

I would try the method tanin suggested and half the time purge or deploy won't work properly and give unknown errors. I use a custom setup! As explained above.. ekkk.

 

But even on single machine. Using vortex I did experience many times that simply purging and deploying was problematic.

Sometimes stopping half way and didn't ever know why.

Sometimes purging and deploying would kill order of files or mods. Always requiring re-adjusting of orders and priority

 

It's hard to explain. Before purge game played. After purge and deploy game fails to load. Until I fiddled load orders and file priority again. (I think some mods had files that were not suppose to get loaded and the deploy auto enabled them)

It is almost as if vortex is not storing enough information about how the mod was being used and the purge and deploy would bring that mod back to its default state or something not sure..

 

It became a tool I became scared to use as it kept borking my game setups..

 

I am also speaking somewhat as a mod creator/editor.

Where if I need to edit files vortex would revert changes and loose my work.

 

The biggest stress came when the file change warnings come up and maybe my own fault. But kept loosing files thinking I was pressing the right thing.

 

I see that someone here kept saying the MO VFS is the same as vortex but vortex uses system type etc.

 

Actually l don't really know how MO did it. Vortex uses symlinks (highend shortcuts if you will) MO seemed use a system that confusees me to this day how it takes all those files.. then temporarily places them in the game.. it was a very good approach I am still in awe about how tanin set that up.

 

Anyways I wanted to voice my own user experiences in vortex. I love that vortex is designed to be as simple as possible. But being a power user. I don't like stuff in my appdata, drive C, and other things. I want to be in control of my PC and it's files.

Vortex to me is designed for noobs I get that. As modding is daunting

It's making it easier for them to try modding.

 

I honestly cannot understand when I see people say 400+ mods works flawlessly

 

I don't believe it!

Or they are making out they are a computer God and in reality have spent hours and days setting up orders

 

My problem could be the mods I run not all are from Nexus mods.. some mods I am working on.

 

Anyways I hope this was an interesting read.. cheers

Shaun.

[HadToRegister]

Well, you're using Vortex in a way it wasn't designed for

What it sounds like is you're making Vortex use Symlinks to place it's Hardlinks, so you essentially have

MOD Staging Folder------>Hardlink---------->Symlink--------->Game Data Folder, and when you hit purge everything goes all to hell, and rightfully so.
MOD Staging Folder------>Hardlink---------->Game Data Folder

 

The problem is that Bethesda games don't like Symlinks, which is why Vortex doesn't let you use them, and you're adding them in the chain externally