Restricting debate content is cowardly and pointless

[AJStoner]

In my thinking there are three, and only three, legitimate reasons to remove a post and/or take action against a poster:

 

*Threats of, or incitement to, violence. Violence here being defined as, well, violence. Claims that words are violence are simply ignorant BEYOND words.

 

*Doxing, to include both revealing a person’s information or encouraging/enabling others to take action against a person in the real world such as contacting employers, educators, family, friends, neighbors, community members, et al.

 

*Slander and libel, to meet the legal definitions of those terms—NOT simply insulting someone.

 

Short of these criteria there is no reason to not let a conversation run its course. No one is obliged to view or participate in a discussion that they do not want to. People who say ignorant, nasty, or stupid things will quickly be recognized for what they are and be dismissed accordingly. What’s more, moderators CANNOT be trusted to decide what is and isn’t acceptable outside of exact and narrowly defined parameters. It is human nature to dismiss authentic vitriol as righteous indignation when it conforms to one’s own viewpoint, while taking umbrage and asserting moral outrage with anything even remotely snarky or sarcastic that does not.

 

Bad ideas SHOULD be heard. It is how we, as a people, get to decide they are bad ideas and very good ideas have often been maligned as evil for simply not conforming to prevailing orthodoxy. No one is qualified to make these distinctions. NO ONE.

 

Offense is taken and not given—always. I am offended by fifty things a day. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together is. That does not give me, you, or anyone else the right to decide what is and is not fit to be heard and before anyone says ‘It’s a privately owned site, they have the right to decide what is and is not said here’ let me just respond with yes, they do. They have every right from a legal standpoint to censor whatever they choose. It is, none-the-less, morally and intellectually bankrupt to do so.

In any event, you are not getting rid of “bad ideas” by preventing them from being voiced. You are driving them into the shadows where they will fester like open wounds. You are making the world more suspicious, hostile, and partisan—not more open-minded.

[Pickysaurus]

Hi AJStoner,

 

The Nexus Mods website and forums are moderated in line with our Terms and Conditions which all members agree to upon registering.

 

A specific quote that applies to such topics is:

 

 

Content that can be construed as provocative, objectionable, discriminatory, or abusive toward any real-world individual or group, may be subject to moderation. This includes but is not limited to content involving politics, race, religion, gender identity, sexuality, or social class.

 

Generally these kinds of topics descend into a flame war, which adds no value to the community and increases workload on our site staff to police it. As you aptly put it "It’s a privately owned site, they have the right to decide what is and is not said here" and as such the site owner has full editorial rights and is not obliged to host any content they do not want to. This isn't a restriction on your freedom of expression though, as you can create your own blog or discussion forum for these topics elsewhere on the internet.

 

You posts makes you seem like an intelligent but frustrated person and I don't necessarily disagree with all the things you said on a broad scale, however airing these topics on a forums about video game mods is not a solution to any of the problems you mention. That is something you should probably discuss with your local community and elected officials.

[AJStoner]

Greetings Pickysaurus.

As I said, I do not dispute the right of the site owner(s) to do so, merely the good sense of it. Yes, the site is mainly about video games but it has decided to have a debate forum. Indeed, the site has various discussion forums outside the topic of video games exactly because people with like interests enjoy communicating on a variety of subjects which is only natural. If the site's policy was to allow video game discussion and nothing else it would be another matter. That it presumes to even host a forum called "debates" however makes it fair game for criticism on how it approaches that.

I fully understand the desire to avoid flame wars. I will also confess to enjoying a good flame war now and again. I am a man of varied and eclectic tastes. Having dealt with all manner of sites with regards to how this is handled, however, I have come to the conclusion that what is lost in trying to avoid hearing from jackasses is far worse than encountering the odd jackass. More is less when it comes to intervention.

[kthompsen]

Well, I know I don't mind.. and I know I have unpopular ideas myself. It doesn't bother me if people want to heavily criticize it. But at the same time, I understand why sites do this. They'd rather not have any potential drama. It's easier to just remove the opportunity. I don't drama either, and would rather have everyone just intelligently speak.. but we all know it isn't realistic to expect that to always happen on the internet.

[Lisnpuppy]

With some notable exceptions (religion, topics about abortion, etc) that we shut down immediately due to what Pickysaurus said (the ToS parts quoted) we don't shut down for content alone. We even realize that certain debate topics get hot and heavy but when the post don't turn into a huge flame war or really bad personal attacks we will often let it play itself out in this forum.

 

Just because staff may or may not agree on the debate at hand doesn't get it shut down. We don't try to keep people from having their opinions in the debate section. And only a select few moderators post in this section. My rule is if I have to moderate something in a debate topic (which I had participated in) then I don't post in it after that. But that isn't a rule, that is just how I like to do it.

 

Regardless, as Picky said there are rules on this site and we have all been here a long time and can recognize when something will be going south. I've been here over ten years and I have seen just about everything come down the pike in this forum. I'm not sure how it is cowardly and pointless to close content for the reasons stated above (and that even you acknowledge yourself) and as was said, Dark0ne runs this site, it is based in Britain and is a private site. The site has rules that everyone agrees to (and really should read) and we all attempt to apply those rules fairly and consistently in all forums. However at the end of the day, Dark0ne gets the last word on what he wants on his site.

 

Honestly the idea of this forum getting shut down completely has been tossed around a few times over the years and I am somewhat surprised it has never happened. I really don't want that to ever happen as I have found some interesting things here over the years.

[JimmyRJump]

The big error in thinking here is that one tends to forget this is a private website. It's not a public spot like Speaker's Corner in London's Hyde Park. If you allow folk into your living room those folk will have to obide your rules. Wether those rules are seen as fair by the visitors is irrelevant because they are on private territory and what the owner says goes. Point.

 

Freedom of speech and what have you don't count. And after all, since we're dealing with a games related website, it's already a small mircale that non games related topics are allowed at all.

[HeyYou]

The big error in thinking here is that one tends to forget this is a private website. It's not a public spot like Speaker's Corner in London's Hyde Park. If you allow folk into your living room those folk will have to obide your rules. Wether those rules are seen as fair by the visitors is irrelevant because they are on private territory and what the owner says goes. Point.

 

Freedom of speech and what have you don't count. And after all, since we're dealing with a games related website, it's already a small mircale that non games related topics are allowed at all.

This.

 

Robins house. Robins Rules.

[AJStoner]

The big error in thinking here is that one tends to forget this is a private website. It's not a public spot like Speaker's Corner in London's Hyde Park. If you allow folk into your living room those folk will have to obide your rules. Wether those rules are seen as fair by the visitors is irrelevant because they are on private territory and what the owner says goes. Point.

 

Freedom of speech and what have you don't count. And after all, since we're dealing with a games related website, it's already a small mircale that non games related topics are allowed at all.

As I clearly stated, I am aware of this and do not dispute it. My point is, if you are going to have a debate section than these policies defeat the entire purpose of it. To me, debate is a sacrosanct thing; the lynchpin of all real human progress. If you do not respect it, do not presume to take part in one. So, as I see it, the error is not in my thinking so much as your comprehension of what was actually being said.

[HeyYou]

 

The big error in thinking here is that one tends to forget this is a private website. It's not a public spot like Speaker's Corner in London's Hyde Park. If you allow folk into your living room those folk will have to obide your rules. Wether those rules are seen as fair by the visitors is irrelevant because they are on private territory and what the owner says goes. Point.

 

Freedom of speech and what have you don't count. And after all, since we're dealing with a games related website, it's already a small mircale that non games related topics are allowed at all.

As I clearly stated, I am aware of this and do not dispute it. My point is, if you are going to have a debate section than these policies defeat the entire purpose of it. To me, debate is a sacrosanct thing; the lynchpin of all real human progress. If you do not respect it, do not presume to take part in one. So, as I see it, the error is not in my thinking so much as your comprehension of what was actually being said.

 

So, what you believe makes Robin wrong in his own house? Terribly sorry, doesn't work that way. The section is here, it has rules. If you want to play by the rules, all well and good, you are welcome to participate. If you don't want to abide by the rules, then you won't last long.

 

Some topics are simply too polarizing to be allowed in an open forum. It doesn't have any benefits at all, and has many drawbacks. Robin has been doing this for more than a decade, and has a pretty good idea of what he is about. If you think you can do a better job, you are always welcome to give it a shot. :)

[Reneer]

No one is making the case that by avoiding certain topics in the Debate section here that the Nexus is somehow "getting rid" of those bad ideas / topics. If you want a truly unmoderated place to debate, there are plenty of websites dedicated to that. The Nexus is simply not one of them.