An independent New Vegas mod.

[devinpatterson]

What is the posibility of this mod interacting with the mod that aims to take the battle to the legion territory?

There are some differences in scope, execution etc. I'm mostly tweaking existing assets to simulate a post hoover dam setting, whereas Madmongo on top of that is creating new lands and assets...a much larger scale project. I'm guessing his mod will be released when it's done or a specific milestones, where as mine will roll out piecemeal. I'm focused almost exclusively on the New vegas/Mojave area (and some DLC), where as Madmongo's will have focus in AZ.

So while both of ours shares a similar foundation of a post hoover dam war NV, from there they diverge. Both of us finished cleaning up the pre-hoover environment long ago. So from that point on there isn't a lot of similarity, and I can't see a reason to link the two, it would just complicate the process and wouldn't bring any advantage I'm aware off. Although stuff like compatibility between the two could be useful for players.

 

At least that's my understanding, as imperfect as it may be.

 

If however if I did do a Legion As* kicking mod (separate mod), I'd probably base it in Sedona. I can't find the reference right now but somewhere I read they had a sizable force there. In addition I came across a post about cloning world spaces. To me if you took Zion and threw a lot more scrub oaks in there you'd have a pretty good sedona. At least passably close for our game, compared to the sedona trails I'v personally been on. It also, obviously, reduces the workload substantially.

[devinpatterson]

Oh, that second to last post reminded me of another aspect of the mod I'd like to delve into. House must have had VR of some type if he was conscious and locked in his pod for decades and decades (assuming you want to stay sane). I'd like to make a pre-war VR just for fun and to explore. It might just be the penthouse and a portion of New Vegas before the nukes hit, or maybe a few of Mr. Houses vacation spots/mansions. I think that would be interesting history and background to explore, maybe filling in some questions re: House, and possibly illuminating what his future plans for NV were going to be.

[devinpatterson]

 

What about a scenario for if the NCR and BOS teamed up against the player ?

I guess something that comes about if the player makes the wrong diplomatic choices ... eegadds !

Again, I haven't read through all of the comments that led up to this, but I can't imagine the BoS and NCR ever working together.

 

......I can see the player pissing off the NCR, and I can see the player pissing of the BoS, but I can't see the NCR and BoS ever teaming up together, even to face a common enemy.

MadMongo's point of view is the way I see it as well, with a slight difference. If Hardin is in charge, it is as MadMongo describes it. If McNamara is in charge (because his vision is unique among the western BOS) there could be a long and difficult path to peace or even co-operation with the NCR *if there was a powerful catalyst like the courier to drive it*. But of course the scenario your describing, Mktavish has the courier as antagonist to both factions *and* they are allying, so I don't see how that could happen with existing lore.

[devinpatterson]

What I currently have working is a mod that drops you out of the main quest after the battle at Hoover Dam and restores the dam to pre-battle conditions (a lot of stuff gets switched on and off as you transition over to the other side of the dam). It taps into the House, NCR, Independent, and Legion quest lines, so it has hooks for all of those possible endings.

 

Really looking forward to your mod, I'm sorry to hear about the worldspace troubles.

 

BTW were you able to isolate that weird LOD bug with the fort burning?

 

So that's where it's at currently. I've been off doing other things so I haven't made a lot of progress on it lately, but if folks want to integrate into this or work cooperatively I am definitely up for that.

Anything I can do to help, let me know, but I'm not sure we have much overlap.....other than perhaps synchonizing story elements post hoover dam in the NV area, and or insuring compatibility between mods. I don't think I have any useful legion assets to offer. Maybe I might have some NV ending stuff you might want to incoroprate, or vice versa some stuff I'd like to include in my post war NV. But perhaps I'm overlooking something obvious?

[madmongo]

As far as Sedona goes, I'm not finding much. There was another user who was putting together a team to make a Flagstaff/Sedona mod back in 2017. No word about what has happened to it since then. I'm assuming it's another dead mod at this point. I also found some fanfiction stuff referencing the NCR's battle against the Legion in Arizona, which included Sedona.

 

I did not find anything official about Sedona, and the main Fallout wiki ( https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Fallout_Wiki ) doesn't mention it anywhere that I could find. If you find anything official, let me know. I'd like to conform to the existing lore if possible.

 

For the final battle, I chose Fort Navajo solely because it's a real-world military base just outside of Flagstaff. It seemed to me that if the base was there, the Legion would use it. It would be kinda silly not to. There is nothing official about Fort Navajo in any of the Fallout lore that I have seen. All of this is pure speculation on my part. With Flagstaff being the Legion's capital and Fort Navajo being basically right next door, it just makes a lot of sense to me to have the final battle there.

 

I currently have a Freeside mod which fills in most of the interiors in Freeside. That mod is almost done. I also have an interiors mod that fills in a lot of interiors all around FNV, basically most of the buildings that aren't filled in with TTW interiors. That mod is done, but I am waiting until the Freeside mod is done to release both at the same time since they both share assets.

 

I am also working on a major re-do of Honest Hearts, because that DLC just annoys the crap out of me. First of all, you spend all of about 3 seconds in the caravan and *poof* you're there, and somehow you have passed down this magical one-way road that you cannot turn around on. I hate that the DLCs do that. It's an open world game. Keep it open world, don't force me down a linear path, and one-way travel is just silly. Arrggh. Then, once you get to Zion, it's a magical place with so much rain and water that it should be a rainforest, not part of the Utah desert. Hey guys, this is Fallout. Water is scarce, remember? Apparently the developers didn't remember. I have two new worldspaces done for this mod so that you walk all the way from New Vegas to Zion and you actually spend a lot of time guarding your caravan. I want to make a third worldspace to replace Zion itself, though I plan on re-using all of the existing quests (except for my caravan quest, which is new).

 

My plan is to finish all of this first, and then get back to my "big" mod, which is Arizona, California, and Nevada up to New Reno and a bit beyond (Vault City and Gecko).

 

That said, if there is enough interest in splitting the Arizona portion of this off and creating a separate mod out of it, I could move that up the priority list. It might actually be best to split my big mod up into three smaller mods, or release it in three separate chunks.

[devinpatterson]

I did not find anything official about Sedona, and the main Fallout wiki ( https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Fallout_Wiki ) doesn't mention it anywhere that I could find. If you find anything official, let me know. I'd like to conform to the existing lore if possible.

Hmmm maybe I'm mis-remembering\incorrect. I'll try to poke around a bit and see if I come up with anything. But as far as a legion location it wouldn't bother me much not to have anything official. It's like 30 miles south of Flag and at the juncture of 89a & 179.

 

For the final battle, I chose Fort Navajo solely because it's a real-world military base just outside of Flagstaff.

It might also be a good choice since it's national guard and angling toward a industrial park in our world. In other words it may not have been a high value military target, and thus may not have been nuked back to teh stone age. I seem to recall a lot of national guard installations still standing in fallout.

 

First of all, you spend all of about 3 seconds in the caravan and *poof* you're there, and somehow you have passed down this magical one-way road

I guess I'm ok with that as a story telling tool, although more content (and choice) is better.

 

Then, once you get to Zion, it's a magical place with so much rain and water that it should be a rainforest, not part of the Utah deser

I seemed to remember it as having a lot of precipitation and found estimates from 34 inches on en.climate-data.org to half that on www.weather-us.com. That upper end does seem like quite a bit to me, and much like the Mojave it stayed relatively untouched by the nukes (no reason to bombard it, lack of military targets or high population centers). So I guess I could see an argument being made for it's in game description/setup, although I wouldn't be able to guage if zion in the game is accurately reflecting precipitation in our world or if they went overboard. But I suspect the developers designed it with the real zion in mind...perhaps with some exaggeration to heighten the experience.

 

Water is scarce, remember? Apparently the developers didn't remember.

Isn't it more that it's scarce in areas of extreme desertification, especially areas that were heavily nuked? Some areas were spared the green heart warming glow of plutonium, and the total amount of water probably did't decrease, just changed and redistributed. I mean I guess it could have been blown off planetside but even the meteor that (is proposed) to cause the biggest(?) dino extinction event was billions of times larger than the A bomb and I don't think we lost a significant fraction of the worlds water even though it hit in teh ocean. Even fallout's worlds arsenal probably doesn't compare to that impact. But then again Scienct and SCIENCE! may differ.

 

I kind of always thought (and this ins't backed up by any lore I read, just soret of assumed) that some areas may even get more water due to changes in weather patterns. Like there could be areas in south america that are crazy bio jungles that are even lusher than pre war rainforest. I could be wrong though, it's not something I've researched. But I do think some locations were spared the bombs and desertification (Mojave and zion), but others were hit very hard (the capital wastelands, areas of CA).

 

 

That said, if there is enough interest in splitting the Arizona portion of this off and creating a separate mod out of it,

Sure I'd love that, but purely for selfish reasons

[ElrazielMoon]

well, I'd like to see a changelog or a general description for the current definition of the mod

[devinpatterson]

well, I'd like to see a changelog or a general description for the current definition of the mod

 

I don't have a changelog and a general description is the first post of the thread

[Mktavish]

 

Just that the basis of the story is key to the work I would be about to do ... I ask that the STORY concept about it. Be a who/where for the battle , in your big picture story. Instead of an arbitrary bunch of npc's attacking each other just for demonstration.

I'm a little confused about what the battle arena is, maybe you could fill in some of the details for me. Is the battle arena the RTS idea you were discussing earlier?

 

Yes it is the Real Time Strategy concept ... which I mentioned I am trying to base it's principals on StarCraft game play.

 

What is the essence or origin of it? Does it spring out of geo-political conflicts in the area or is it a separate thing in and of itself....like a giant mini game?

 

Applied to FNV and your story continuation ... The player would always be their character in charge of the securitron forces . Therefore they wouldn't be in command of Legion troops ever , but had they allied with NCR or BOS ... some of these skirmishes would have them controlling those types of units in a co-op battle field. Maybe one without securitron forces involved. But that would be a story point I leave to your decision. If you are familiar with StarCraft / WarCraft ... there are basically 2 types of game play.

The first is single player campaign , the second multi player mele battle arena's where base building has a lot of latitude. Even if you only play computer opponents.

The single player campaign where they tell the story through battle missions , all the while adding more content as the story progresses ... is what I was trying to achieve. Not the anything goes content of multiplayer mele. Therefore very much tied to how the story goes.

You could view it as a giant mini game within the game ... but more like a series of alternate means to do battle via chess pieces so to speak.

 

Are there different locations in different military encounters or is this an actual, physical arena of some sort?

 

It is a physical arena in the fact you have to have the ground for it to play out on , and the area for it needs some borders defined. But yes there would hopefully be multiple places that made sense to the story premise for each skirmish. This idea started for me in Fo3 , which that large world map pretty much uses every nook and cranny of it. So I had to build small world spaces for it.

However ... the FNV map , has spaces all around the edges of it unused to make about a dozen different battle fields. Which I hope could be made to work with your story ? Therefore not needing to make a bunch of small world spaces. Although most all the spaces need some land tweaking and of course navmeshing. And it may ultimately prove not feasible due to engine limitations , like mongo mentioned.

 

But I would still like to give it a shot for a demonstration ... based on a story premise who/where.

For example : Against the Legion as a run them out of town sort of mission.

 

Their camp situated at (32,6) for the general area , with a couple boats moored at a dock north of that on the lake. The player's base of operations situated at (27,8 ) by the legion tents to suggest the legion just left that area ?

The particulars of how the rts portion starts to play out right then needs to be figured out story wise.

But probably some dialogue ... Then the player starts with a structure deemed the base of the build tree.

Which they then create units that harvest resources. So they can then build other structures ... that build combat units and upgrades. So on and so on ... the build tree needs to be thought out of course. Just a rough mention to give you the idea.

Structures of course can be destroyed ... which my idea is to have them tied to an npc , which remains stationary. Like an npc doing workbench idles. But this npc holds the health for the structure , and once dead the structure disapears. Therefore no options available that the structure provided. And must be rebuilt .

I guess most structures would have that npc fighting back (albeit stationary) But some wouldn't being defenseless structures.

And to explain how you command the units ... my idea is to shoot your troops with a beam gun (scoped) so you can hit them far away. Which will then open a list of options to give them an AI package. But also be able to do it from in the air , with the player having no combat capability while using that feature , also not drawing aggro.

I know I mentioned the jet pack mod earlier to simulate that (the isometric view for commanding)

But I think that will eat the engine cycles to much , so would be better just to have the player move from fixed position to fixed position above the land about radio tower height ... what ever works best for render distance and field of view ??? Then they go back down on the ground to get their character involved for combat.

 

@ mongo How many NPC's were you working with that turned out to be to many. And what were the actions / packages of them ?

 

 

[devinpatterson]

Just that the basis of the story is key to the work I would be about to do ... I ask that the STORY concept about it. Be a who/where for the battle , in your big picture story. Instead of an arbitrary bunch of npc's attacking each other just for demonstration.

That is pretty straightforward if it involves any legion forces at all since, most players are going to want to clear them out of the area (the "area" pretty much being all of NV's map). Other forces are possible, but dependent on the storyline. For example you mentioned battling BOS forces, but that will depend on the quest results of the individuals game (ie did they destroy the bos, their status with the bos etc). That's going to be common with the other factions/groups/forces too, and only a portion of peeps will qualify for those arena's. So if it was me personally, if I was putting time into it, I'd stick to just legion battles.....at least you know that pretty much 100% of those encounters could & most likely would be fought.

 

Have you given any thought to the VR world I proposed in the previous post? It has the advantage of letting you battle any opponents you want in the simulation and could also explain things like the isometric view without any need for a jetpack.

You don't even have to create new world spaces you could just make it appear to be VR (you step in get a little VR intro when the pod closes, then transported (moveTo) off to battle). In addition to those advantages you can make them replayable ("yesman reset simulation"), and lots of other goodies. Wanna see how that simulation runs at night, no problem. Want to see how it turns out with a raging snowstorm, no problem.

The only disadvantages to me are that you can't bring back loot, into the real world, but you can bring back experience, perks earned etc.

 

I think I understand better what your trying to do after your explanations and I'll try to respond to your other points as time allows,

 

EDIT: Ooops nevermind the part with the RTS questions (that I have edited out), I had misunderstood the genre.

Edited February 14, 2020 by devinpatterson