Vortex almost unusable

[ubermaucer]

 

 

Then I am happy for you, you got the empty chamber of the Roulette. I got the loaded one. And I know what Vortex is capable of, that's why I was so delighted when I found out about Vortex. Regarding the autosort: I have LOOT.exe installed and I also obviously have the Vortex's LOOT. The standalone one sorts a lot faster than the built-in one. It also shows ITMs, shows wether two plugins are incompatible, but Vortex also does that, it also shows wether there is a patch for two plugins available for download. Why is the built-in one much slower? Is that normal, or just another loaded chamber?

 

 

Vortex sorting isn't slow, it sorts almost instantaneously, it does take around 30-45 seconds to DEPLOY (write) the order, that's because it's using hardlinks, which LOOT doesn't do.

(If you are referring to the spinning segmented circle that appears to the right of MODS and PLUGINS, that's not Sorting, that's writing/deploying)

Using standalone LOOT with Vortex is redundant.

 

 

But Vortex doesnt tell me there is a compatibility patch i could be using.

 

my personal experience of handling with vortex over the night:

 

Pros:

-still supported by Nexus

-Mods load and install swiftly

 

Cons:

-Mods fail to install

-Mods install multiple times

-Mods somehow take up more space than when installing with NMM

-Plugins wont disable when disabling the parent mod for that plugin

-Plugins don't delete themselves when deleting the parent mod for that plugin

-Too many different places (NMM had everything in one place)

-UI scale is too large, almost everyone in the world has at least a fullHD monitor, so no point in making the UI TV sized

-Making a rule A --> B doesn't always make the rule B <-- A, which sometimes leads to unnecessary human error

 

The Cons outweigh the Pro's simply because i cant get my game to WORK on Vortex, contrary to NMM. I'll take the extra wait for an actually working MM

[Grestorn]

To comment your points:

 

- Mods failing to install is quite rare and - in my experience - always related to a malformed FOMOD install definition. NMM also had its problems with that, but in the last years people usually tested with NMM - even if NMM had a bug, they just adapted their FOMOD accordingly. Which makes it really hard for Vortex (or any newcomer), because it also has to "emulate" those bugs.

 

- That's intentional. This way you can have multiple versions of a mod (even of the same release but with differing FOMOD settings!) in parallel and switch between them easily. The UI directly supports this (with the plugin version selector).

 

- You're probably fooled by the Windows Explorer (or most other file tools) which count the space used by hard linked files for each link, even though it takes the space only once. A common problem. Tools like "TreeSize" get it right though. There's technically no reason why Vortex would use more space than any other modding tool (the opposite actually).

 

- What's a "parent mod"? There's no definition for that. It's good that Vortex just doesn't disable all mods which depend on another mod if you disable that. That would be a nightmare, usage-wise. It warns you that you're missing a plugin's master, that's enough.

 

- What do you mean by "places"? NMM also had separate tabs for Plugins and Mods. The fact that it mixed downloaded (but never installed) mods with installed mods in the same list is not really an advantage in my point of view.

 

- UI Design: That's what Themes are for. And it's the way the majority of users prefer it - as can be seen with about all the "modern" tools these days.

 

- It never creates a revers rule, because that would be just superfluous. But you'll get a icon in the install order dialog if there's a reverse rule defined on the opposite mod, that's enough to tell you that there's already a reverse rule in place. Why would you want to create reverse rules, anyway?

 

 

How would Vortex detect if there's a compatibility patch available or necessary? It would be news to me that either NMM or MO would be able to do that, either.

[ubermaucer]

To comment your points:

 

- Mods failing to install is quite rare and - in my experience - always related to a malformed FOMOD install definition. NMM also had its problems with that, but in the last years people usually tested with NMM - even if NMM had a bug, they just adapted their FOMOD accordingly. Which makes it really hard for Vortex (or any newcomer), because it also has to "emulate" those bugs.

 

- That's intentional. This way you can have multiple versions of a mod (even of the same release but with differing FOMOD settings!) in parallel and switch between them easily. The UI directly supports this (with the plugin version selector).

 

- You're probably fooled by the Windows Explorer (or most other file tools) which count the space used by hard linked files for each link, even though it takes the space only once. A common problem. Tools like "TreeSize" get it right though. There's technically no reason why Vortex would use more space than any other modding tool (the opposite actually).

 

- What's a "parent mod"? There's no definition for that. It's good that Vortex just doesn't disable all mods which depend on another mod if you disable that. That would be a nightmare, usage-wise. It warns you that you're missing a plugin's master, that's enough.

 

- What do you mean by "places"? NMM also had separate tabs for Plugins and Mods. The fact that it mixed downloaded (but never installed) mods with installed mods in the same list is not really an advantage in my point of view.

 

- UI Design: That's what Themes are for. And it's the way the majority of users prefer it - as can be seen with about all the "modern" tools these days.

 

- It never creates a revers rule, because that would be just superfluous. But you'll get a icon in the install order dialog if there's a reverse rule defined on the opposite mod, that's enough to tell you that there's already a reverse rule in place. Why would you want to create reverse rules, anyway?

 

 

How would Vortex detect if there's a compatibility patch available or necessary? It would be news to me that either NMM or MO would be able to do that, either.

-Mods that installed fine on NMM fail to install on Vortex (same exact .zip file)

 

-The SAME mod file gets installed twice

 

-Nope, im using TreeSize to check the space used. And with anything, it's important what windows explorer says, since that will be defining what your other programs define as "free space" (you wont be able to install any other games, for example from steam if your hard drive is glogged by fake files fooling windows explorer)

 

-Parent mode is the mod that installs that plugin. Lets say i install mod A, then if that mod includes any plugins, the plugin will be added to the plugins list. In NMM, disabling the parent mod A would also disable any plugins it installed. In Vortex, this is not the case.

 

-I with places that the user will be thrown around and around and configuring this and that and there. Whilst this may be faster in the long run, it takes tremendously more time to get used to.

 

-So the default theme is what the majority likes? Well, it's strange that im not seeing this unscalable massively zoomed in file view in any other software like... windows explorer.

 

-Im not talking about reverse rules. Im talking about Vortex notifying me that Mod A has a conflict with mod B. Then i go and configure Mod A to load After or Before mod B, but then i need to also configure a rule for mod B, because Vortex keeps notifying me about it in the top right.

 

You said that LOOT is deprecated when using Vortex... but Vortex doesnt detect potential compatibility patches, so loot is still very much not useless

[iensteni]

 

 

Then I am happy for you, you got the empty chamber of the Roulette. I got the loaded one. And I know what Vortex is capable of, that's why I was so delighted when I found out about Vortex. Regarding the autosort: I have LOOT.exe installed and I also obviously have the Vortex's LOOT. The standalone one sorts a lot faster than the built-in one. It also shows ITMs, shows wether two plugins are incompatible, but Vortex also does that, it also shows wether there is a patch for two plugins available for download. Why is the built-in one much slower? Is that normal, or just another loaded chamber?

 

 

Vortex sorting isn't slow, it sorts almost instantaneously, it does take around 30-45 seconds to DEPLOY (write) the order, that's because it's using hardlinks, which LOOT doesn't do.

(If you are referring to the spinning segmented circle that appears to the right of MODS and PLUGINS, that's not Sorting, that's writing/deploying)

Using standalone LOOT with Vortex is redundant.

 

 

Wait... For me deployment with hardlinks takes hardly a second, with 10 Gb of mods, while sorting takes forever. Just found another one of Vortex's inconsistencies. Standalone LOOT sorts instantaneously, Vortex's LOOT takes about 10 seconds.

 

Edit: Deployment for me always takes about 0.9 seconds, regardless of the deployment method. Except with hardlink it actually works, with movement it doesn't. And it has always been about 0.9 seconds, even when my game was still playable.

[Grestorn]

-Mods that installed fine on NMM fail to install on Vortex (same exact .zip file)

I can't comment on that without you giving an example of a mod that doesn't install in Vortex. You didn't even say, WHY it failed. Was there an error message? There's not much to go on with your complaint.

 

-The SAME mod file gets installed twice

Yes, and I gave you a reason for that. Even the same mod can be used with differing (FOMOD) options. That's a good thing. There's no disadvantage to that feature.

 

-Nope, im using TreeSize to check the space used. And with anything, it's important what windows explorer says, since that will be defining what your other programs define as "free space" (you wont be able to install any other games, for example from steam if your hard drive is glogged by fake files fooling windows explorer)

What "nope"? That HardLinks are misrepresented in Explorer is a fact. And that only counts for the calculation of the space occupied by a directory, that's wrong in Explorer, if there are hardlinks involved. The total space taken on the whole disk is calculated differently is shown correctly in Explorer.

Please don't argue those technical details with me, I know what I'm talking about, ok? Read up here if you want to learn more about links and their repercussions: http://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinkshellext/linkshellextension.html

 

-Parent mode is the mod that installs that plugin. Lets say i install mod A, then if that mod includes any plugins, the plugin will be added to the plugins list. In NMM, disabling the parent mod A would also disable any plugins it installed. In Vortex, this is not the case.

If a mod contains multiple plugin files, all of them will be removed if you deactivate the mod. But you can still en- or disable each plugin individually, which is a good thing.

 

-I with places that the user will be thrown around and around and configuring this and that and there. Whilst this may be faster in the long run, it takes tremendously more time to get used to.

Well, any new tool requires some time to get used to, no argument there. But the three places are separated for a reason.

 

-Im not talking about reverse rules. Im talking about Vortex notifying me that Mod A has a conflict with mod B. Then i go and configure Mod A to load After or Before mod B, but then i need to also configure a rule for mod B, because Vortex keeps notifying me about it in the top right.

Not true. I don't know WHAT you did, but you only have to configure one way. If you still have a conflict after you've created a rule, the conflict is with ANOTHER mod, never the one you've just created a rule for.

 

You said that LOOT is deprecated when using Vortex... but Vortex doesnt detect potential compatibility patches, so loot is still very much not useless

I didn't say it's deprecated, where did you read that?

LOOT is actually used by Vortex internally.

So if LOOT "detects" a compatibility patch (i.e makes sure that it's loaded after the patched mod), then Vortex will do the same.

[HadToRegister]

 

but Vortex doesnt detect potential compatibility patches, so loot is still very much not useless

 

 

What are you talking about?

NMM never did this, Vortex tells you there's a Conflict, NMM never "Detected Compatibility Patches", that's not even a feature of NMM