Impossible to follow directions?

[Vyxenne]

I have read two statements to the effect that Vortex and my game(s) and my mods must all be on the same drive for some 1995 reason. Furthermore, the blurb on the Files page states that it defaults to C: but can be changed on both versions (the default-install version and the configurable-install version.) Further even more even than that, installation of the configurable-install version is strongly discouraged by wording such as "do this only if you know what you are doing."

 

None of this flexibility happened. I d/l the recommended version and at no time was I offered any choice as to installation drive- it plunked itself down on my SSD (C:\Program Files) and that was the end of that.

 

So I have now uninstalled Vortex since the C:\drive is a limited-size SSD **AND** neither my games nor my mods are on that drive. :wallbash:

 

I wonder if one of the guru folks (Robin, Tannin) could please revise the installation instructions in plain, unequivocal English, starting by removing the false promise that both of the two files on offer are configurable as to installation drive and folder, and (possibly?) stop discouraging people from installing the only configurable installation file offered by removing the dire warning not to use it "unless we know what we're doing" which makes it sound like we need to know C++ programming to use the second option- it doesn't take much expertise to go "Hmm... all my games are on my G:\ drive, and the Reddit as well as Tannin's forum responses all say to install Vortex on that same drive, so, I'm no expert, but when the installation path dialog pops up I bet I am up to the challenge of selecting G:.."

 

I'll try again, this time selecting the configurable-install file because when it comes to overwriting "C:\Program Files\" with "G:\Games\" I'm an expert. :D

[HadToRegister]

I have read two statements to the effect that Vortex and my game(s) and my mods must all be on the same drive for some 1995 reason. Furthermore, the blurb on the Files page states that it defaults to C: but can be changed on both versions (the default-install version and the configurable-install version.) Further even more even than that, installation of the configurable-install version is strongly discouraged by wording such as "do this only if you know what you are doing."

 

None of this flexibility happened. I d/l the recommended version and at no time was I offered any choice as to installation drive- it plunked itself down on my SSD (C:\Program Files) and that was the end of that.

 

So I have now uninstalled Vortex since the C:\drive is a limited-size SSD **AND** neither my games nor my mods are on that drive. :wallbash:

 

I wonder if one of the guru folks (Robin, Tannin) could please revise the installation instructions in plain, unequivocal English, starting by removing the false promise that both of the two files on offer are configurable as to installation drive and folder, and (possibly?) stop discouraging people from installing the only configurable installation file offered by removing the dire warning not to use it "unless we know what we're doing" which makes it sound like we need to know C++ programming to use the second option- it doesn't take much expertise to go "Hmm... all my games are on my G:\ drive, and the Reddit as well as Tannin's forum responses all say to install Vortex on that same drive, so, I'm no expert, but when the installation path dialog pops up I bet I am up to the challenge of selecting G:.."

 

I'll try again, this time selecting the configurable-install file because when it comes to overwriting "C:\Program Files\" with "G:\Games\" I'm an expert. :D

 

The 'recommended' version only installs o default.

The version I have in the red box lets you install it where you want.

I have Vortex installed on my D:\ Drive with all of my games.

I also have set the Mod Staging folder to D:\Vortex Mods\ and the Download folder to D:\Vortex Downloads\

 

Also, despite what it says, automatic updates work for the Custom Install Version.

 

 

 

 

[xualas]

Vortex does not need to be installed on the same drive as your games/mods.
Example: I installed Vortex on my SSD (C:), while Fallout 4 and all my mods are on my HDD (G:).
Additionally, I can understand how the wording might be a bit off, but let's take a look at what it says right now:
"One-click installer. This is the preferred way of installing Vortex."

and:

"Custom installer.

This installer lets you pick the install location (affects only the application itself, download and install location default to c: and can be changed via settings in both versions).

Use only if you know what you're doing."

Wording is an issue, but I don't think it's as terrible an issue as it's made out to be. Anyone who just takes it at a glance would assume that all means you can change where you install Vortex in both versions. However, taking a moment to consider what is actually being said gives a more accurate idea.
"This installer lets you pick the install location." = Means the other one doesn't.
"(affects only the application itself," = Means non-Vortex-specific files are handled differently.
"download and install location [of mods] default to c:" = This is the weak point, where I've added the needed info in brackets.
"and can be changed via settings in both versions)." = With the added info, it's now 100% clear this is referring to mod paths and not Vortex. Especially after it was implied the other version of Vortex didn't support a custom install path.

As for "installation of the configurable-install version is strongly discouraged by wording such as 'do this only if you know what you are doing.'" - That is there because many people will go in blindly, assuming it works the same, then complain if/when it doesn't. That kind of wording is meant for people who may not have the experience or patience for troubleshooting. An often underestimated first line of defense against bug reports that aren't actually about bugs, etc. Of course, this warning doesn't always work, but it works enough times to be worth having it.

If anything, I would probably have the file description for the preferred version be re-worded to...

"One-click installer. This is the preferred way of installing Vortex.
Choose this installer to install Vortex in the default (C:\...) location.
Mod download and installation paths default to (C:\...) and are configurable in both versions."

 

And the file description for the custom installer re-worded to...
"Custom Installer. Use only if you know what you are doing.
Choose this installer to pick your own Vortex installation location.
Mod download and installation paths default to (C:\...) and are configurable in both versions."

Granted, I'm a nobody, but I managed to understand exactly what was being presented to me when I chose to download, install and use Vortex.

[BigBizkit]

I have read two statements to the effect that Vortex and my game(s) and my mods must all be on the same drive for some 1995 reason.

 

Vortex can be on a different drive, your mod staging folder and your game need to be on the same partition though. The reason for that is that Hardlink deployment depends on it i.e. won't work otherwise. Hardlink deployment is the recommended deployment method for Bethesda games.

 

You could, for instance, have Vortex on one drive, your mod staging folder for Witcher 3 on another drive, and Witcher 3 on yet another drive, as long as you use e.g. Symlink deployment as your deployment method (Settings > Mods).

[VulcanTourist]

Vyxenne didn't know about NTFS hardlinks, which is perhaps understandable; even so many years after their first introduction it's a little-known and poorly understood topic. Few people even know that Windows itself began using junctions, hardlinks' cousin, with the release of Vista. And now we have symlinks on top of that! .LNK files, symlinks, junctions, hardlinks... it's a lot for non-technical people to grasp.

 

I am curious, though: why the reliance on hardlinks instead of junctions? Hardlinks are inherently limited to use on the same volume, while junctions are not. Junctions would afford useful flexibility in this instance.

[BigBizkit]

Vyxenne didn't know about NTFS hardlinks, which is perhaps understandable; even so many years after their first introduction it's a little-known and poorly understood topic. Few people even know that Windows itself began using junctions, hardlinks' cousin, with the release of Vista. And now we have symlinks on top of that! .LNK files, symlinks, junctions, hardlinks... it's a lot for non-technical people to grasp.

 

I am curious, though: why the reliance on hardlinks instead of junctions? Hardlinks are inherently limited to use on the same volume, while junctions are not. Junctions would afford useful flexibility in this instance.

Junctions are directory only, while hardlinks are for both directories and files.

Most mods dump files into a certain folder, some of which don't even have to be within a "root" folder.

So if you have multiple texture mods, all dumping into a data folder, it doesn't make sense to use a junction, unless you completely change how the staging folder works

For reference: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/desktop/fileio/hard-links-and-junctions

Hardlinks are the most efficient generic option as they allow us to cater for most if not all modding patterns for different games.

That being said, it is always possible that someone from within the community might want to write an extension introducing a junction deployment method.

[Tannin42]

Vyxenne didn't know about NTFS hardlinks, which is perhaps understandable; even so many years after their first introduction it's a little-known and poorly understood topic. Few people even know that Windows itself began using junctions, hardlinks' cousin, with the release of Vista. And now we have symlinks on top of that! .LNK files, symlinks, junctions, hardlinks... it's a lot for non-technical people to grasp.

 

I am curious, though: why the reliance on hardlinks instead of junctions? Hardlinks are inherently limited to use on the same volume, while junctions are not. Junctions would afford useful flexibility in this instance.

As BigBizkit says: Junctions support directories only, so installing an esp to the Skyrim/data directory for example wouldn't be possible.

There's also symbolic links which _are_ supported by Vortex, but the Bethesda games explicitly and for no good reason refuse to read esps via symbolic links.

 

and the Reddit as well as Tannin's forum responses all say to install Vortex on that same drive

I abolutely definitively did never say you need to install Vortex on the same drive as the games. This is not rocket science, you don't need any previous knowledge to use Vortex and you certainly don't need to read reddit.

All you have to do is install Vortex, whichever installer you prefer, and then follow the instructions on screen. Vortex tells you when the setup is not valid and it tells you how to fix it.

It's really not comprehensible to me why you would read some reddit post about Vortex to learn how to use it but when Vortex throws a warning notification in red at you, you decide "oh, that's certainly not relevant to me, no need to read those 10 words." and then, shortly after you go "Oh, Vortex doesn't work, completely out of the blue, I should go write a 300 word rant."

 

Seriously, read the notifications inside Vortex, ignore reddit. But read as in: read what it actually says.

If I write "You need to set the staging folder to be on the same drive as the game" that doesn't mean "You need to install Vortex on the same drive as the game."

Because if I had wanted to say "You need to install Vortex on the same drive as the game.", I would have written "You need to install Vortex on the same drive as the game.".

 

"...starting by removing the false promise that both of the two files on offer are configurable as to installation drive and folder"

 

There is no such promise! Where do you get this? Seriously, these kinds of posts drive me nuts. You read "One-click installer. This is the preferred way of installing Vortex." and you interpret that as "We promise that you can pick the installation directory during installation!"?

What installation instructions? There are no installation instructions to change. It's a One-click installer! You click it, it's installed. How much plainer and unequivocaler can it get?

[Guest deleted34304850]

what I like here, is rather than go to the one source where you can engage with the team behind this, the OP goes to Reddit, of all places. Literally the toilet of the internet, and finds their truth.

This, to me, sums up why the OP is having issues. Tannin, I cannot imagine the frustration you must feel reading garbage like this. What you have created is utterly fantastic and will only get better. Keep going sir, your efforts are not in vain.

[Vyxenne]

"It's really not comprehensible to me why you would read some reddit post about Vortex to learn how to use it but when Vortex throws a warning notification in red at you, you decide "oh, that's certainly not relevant to me, no need to read those 10 words." and then, shortly after you go "Oh, Vortex doesn't work, completely out of the blue, I should go write a 300 word rant."

 

I'm sorry you don't comprehend it. I was certain you would once you had read the false instructions on the Vortex Files page (see screenshot). However, your lack of comprehension is not my fault. Also, I'm surprised that you go straight to derision and mockery instead of making an effort to understand the issue- all you had to do is read the Files page (see screenshot below.) The sarcastic scenario (above) that you based your mockery on is only in your imagination- Vortex throws no "warning notification in red" at me when it installs itself on the wrong drive with no option to change it despite the clear statement that the installation drive and path can be changed by the user. See my screenshot.

 

The rest of the confusion no doubt stems from confusion over the meaning of "staging drive/path" since that is an entirely new terminology (and concept) to the vast unwashed hordes of us NMM fans. "Staging drive," left undefined by anyone who actually knows what it is, can easily be taken to mean the same thing as installation drive.

 

The only big red warnings Vortex throws at me are "Deployment failed on 16,994 files- the most likely cause of this is that they are open in some other application" when of course they are not open in any other application. I read every word of those warnings, and finally submitted a bug report on them. Please feel free to go mis-read that too and make sarcastic comments about imaginary scenarios wherein I caused the errors myself by not formatting my HDD before installing Vortex.

 

 

 

"...starting by removing the false promise that both of the two files on offer are configurable as to installation drive and folder"

 

There is no such promise! Where do you get this? Seriously, these kinds of posts drive me nuts. You read "One-click installer. This is the preferred way of installing Vortex." and you interpret that as "We promise that you can pick the installation directory during installation!"?

Ah, my bad then. Shame on me for taking the crystal-clear comment that the installation path can be changed in either the one-click or the custom version literally. I should have somehow intuited what you really meant when you typed that.

 

what I like here, is rather than go to the one source where you can engage with the team behind this, the OP goes to Reddit, of all places. Literally the toilet of the internet, and finds their truth.

Glad you like it. I didn't go to Reddit rather than (instead of) the "one source, I carefully read every word of "the one source" and encountered instructions that turned out to be false, so I did Google searches in addition to the "one source" for the answers. Reddit was only one of the hits I got. Re-read the words in the pretty red box, which I'm sure you will also like, in my screenshot above and tell me how I should have interpreted those words other than "you can change the installation path in either version."

[Guest deleted34304850]

as the instructions are "impossible" me explaining them to you would be futile.

What does Reddit tell you?