Those "What have I done?" Moments

[billyro]

Turning into a werewolf, brutally and painfully murdering cute little foxes and rabbits, and then eating their hearts made me feel like my character was no longer a saint.

It happens.

 

I pretty much feel like a vicious, inhuman person when I fight someone and knock them down, "No more!" or "Let me live!" or something along that line, so I do. Then they get back up and try to kill me so I slaughter them. I feel like a blood-thirsty animal because NPCs are dumb.

[Moraevik]

(Dovahkiin234) You don't have to murder Nilsine. I never do and never will on the few occasions I decide to do the DB quests. What Murine asks is above and beyond the call of duty, here, and Nilsine is absolutely innocent any wrongdoing toward Murine. At least in Oblivion, most of your DB marks had some dirt that could justify getting rid of them, although you sometimes had to dig around a bit to discover it. In Skyrim, the same is true, but then they throw in the Murine-Nilsine nonsense to confuse the player. If I didn't know better (and I don't, so who knows what their agenda was), I'd swear that Bethesda wants us to play evil characters in this game. Heck, you have to murder an innocent (although not very likeable) person in cold blood just to get the option to destroy the Dark Brotherhood if you want to go that route.

 

(Billyro) I used to feel the same as you about killing someone who has "yielded", until I finally figured out that this game doesn't really understand the meaning of "Mercy!", or "I yield!". Is this an oversight on the part of the developers, or is it intentional? I don't know, but I wish that some enterprising modder could actually fix this issue, because I think it's actually an issue. Once a person yields, he should become non-aggressive, move out of the area of conflict and stay there, never going aggro on the player, again. The same should also be true for animals that get reduced to low health and then run away. There are almost no animals in real life that will fight to the death for anything -- not even to protect their young.

[RileyEvan]

(Dovahkiin234) You don't have to murder Nilsine. I never do and never will on the few occasions I decide to do the DB quests. What Murine asks is above and beyond the call of duty, here, and Nilsine is absolutely innocent any wrongdoing toward Murine. At least in Oblivion, most of your DB marks had some dirt that could justify getting rid of them, although you sometimes had to dig around a bit to discover it. In Skyrim, the same is true, but then they throw in the Murine-Nilsine nonsense to confuse the player. If I didn't know better (and I don't, so who knows what their agenda was), I'd swear that Bethesda wants us to play evil characters in this game. Heck, you have to murder an innocent (although not very likeable) person in cold blood just to get the option to destroy the Dark Brotherhood if you want to go that route.

 

(Billyro) I used to feel the same as you about killing someone who has "yielded", until I finally figured out that this game doesn't really understand the meaning of "Mercy!", or "I yield!". Is this an oversight on the part of the developers, or is it intentional? I don't know, but I wish that some enterprising modder could actually fix this issue, because I think it's actually an issue. Once a person yields, he should become non-aggressive, move out of the area of conflict and stay there, never going aggro on the player, again. The same should also be true for animals that get reduced to low health and then run away. There are almost no animals in real life that will fight to the death for anything -- not even to protect their young.

 

 

Can't remember which mod it is off hand, but I'm sure I've seen one where surrendering NPC's actually become non hostile.

[StayFrosty05]

 

(Billyro) I used to feel the same as you about killing someone who has "yielded", until I finally figured out that this game doesn't really understand the meaning of "Mercy!", or "I yield!". Is this an oversight on the part of the developers, or is it intentional? I don't know, but I wish that some enterprising modder could actually fix this issue, because I think it's actually an issue. Once a person yields, he should become non-aggressive, move out of the area of conflict and stay there, never going aggro on the player, again. The same should also be true for animals that get reduced to low health and then run away. There are almost no animals in real life that will fight to the death for anything -- not even to protect their young.

 

There's a small number of 'yielding' mods....each a little different:

 

1/ 'Mercy'

 

2/ 'Actor Fight or Fly'....this one also effects animal flight behavior.

 

3/ 'Speech Tree'

 

4/ 'Giants Are People Too'

 

As for Animals, there is: 'Skytest Realistic Animals and Predators'.....these animals flee and stay away if you damage them enough.

[nolgroth]

Mine was the very first moments of the game. I would never just willingly follow somebody to have my head chopped off. Never. Besides, there was an exit gate right next to the character. The horse thief would have been a perfect distraction for my own getaway. Could have had the dragon fly overhead and the character would have still been able to bear witness to the destruction of Helgen. Maybe could have come back after the destruction was over, cut the bonds on a knife or sword, and then looted the place for initial gear. Perhaps a dying NPC could have told him about their cousin in Riverwood and pleaded for the character to bring them the news. Could have even taught the basic sneaking stuff by having some bandits come to investigate/loot the wreckage.

 

The Daedra quests, except for Meridia, were pretty much evil or, at least, mercenary. The bring the priest to whatever Daedra lord quest was beatable by killing everybody at the feast. I rather enjoyed that. I even mocked the Daedra's promise of revenge. I merely pointed him in the direction of Hircine and Nocturnal. Let them fight it out.

 

The aforementioned Grelod the Kind mission. I really wish there was a way to have her arrested and jailed. The devs could have then had the Dark Brotherhood take umbrage at you interfering in their business. A choice would have been nice there. Or, if you absolutely have to kill Grelod, have her turn into a shrieking Hagraven when you enter the orphanage. The horrific implications of an orphanage controlled by a Hagraven would be enough to give me chills.

 

Almost the entirety of the Thieves Guild missions. No scratch that "almost" off the list. I hate Brynolf and all of the rest of them. In fact, I wonder if any of them are essential once the Twilight Sepulcher quest is over?

 

Any faction that requires me to relinquish my immortal soul to some demonic being. And besides, these Daedra are pretty much stupid. I figure let Hircine and Nocturnal fight it out with Sithis to see which one gets my soul. I'll be over by the fire, warming my toes.

 

I enjoy a little moral ambiguity, but along with that ambiguity has to be a choice and consequence for that choice. Join the DB, kill Grelod. Destroy the DB, have her arrested. Ignore the DB quest altogether, don't do anything. Also would be nice to be able to get that Arretino boy sent to some other foster care. Perhaps he has an aunt in Markarth. Hey, if you like evil, maybe there is an opportunity to sell him to slavers. And, of course, the option to let the miserable little wretch live out the remainder of his days haunting the one place that used to bring him comfort and security until one day, he realizes just how bitter he is that those memories are forever gone and listing about is not going to bring mommy back. Maybe then he will make the positive change to become a beggar or petty thief. Anyway, as much as I love Skyrim, it could have used a role-player or ten's touch when it came to choices and storylines.

[Moraevik]

(StayFrosty): Thanks, man. I'll check those out. I'm already familiar with "Skytest Realistic Animals and Predators". I sort of liked it in some ways, but uninstalled it because it was causing problems in the world that were immersion-breaking for me. If the author ever gets those issues fixed I'll probably run with it, again.

[ElFonz0]

When I murdered Silus as my good Septim character in cold blood, as revenge. I realized after doing that, that my character had done exactly what he had sworn not to do, which is murder in cold blood(besides Grelod the Kind, but she had it coming, and I destroyed the DB), especially when the man had done nothing to piss off my character, but his ancestors.

[Seviraph]

just thought I'll contribute to this thread

 

I think my "what have I done moment" was when I first did that quest- Waking Nightmare, where I get to the skull and Vaermina was like HE"S GOING TO BETRAY YOU, (cause it's my first playthrough I was very suspicious of him to begin with) so when she said that I pretty much backstabbed him on impulse, and then I saw her say "Vaermina commands you!" then I thought

 

 

crap

 

so I reloaded

[AnkhAscendant]

I was going to mention the Speech Tree mod for yielding enemies, you beat me to it. :) Anything to give some nonviolent alternatives...

 

I play a character who is, uh... tragically insane... so most of the morally reprehensible things I can stomach just fine with him with any flimsy excuse. (For example, the priest of Arkay whom you eat eagerly accepts bribes. This makes him corrupt and therefor unworthy of living.)

 

The biggest time I remember feeling like I was being forced to play against character was at the end of the DB questline. I hate hate hate Astrid s.o. m.u.c.h. ...I was always on Cicero's side. (Especially having read his journals. I'm a sucker for tragic.) Yet I had to chase him down into the new sanctuary, following his blood trail... In my mind, my character (who had made a point of choosing "remain silent" in every single dialogue related to the Dark Brotherhood) was yelling "Wait, Cicero, it's okay! I'm your friend!" I thought the game was going to make me kill him, and I was still kind of annoyed that I had to be 'talked into' siding with him...

 

Also, I wish I didn't have to kill Falmers and Afflicted and vampires who are just minding their own business when I walk into their cave. Dang it, I am a vampire, why are they so hostile? And then I feel bad for them (while I loot their corpses. Delicious vampire dust).

 

 

But anyway, you know the real "What have I done" moment? Escaping Helgen. I went with the Stormcloak the first time, and he was all like "Imperials! We have to get them!" so I murdered some Imperial soldier. Then when I eventually started a new character just to play a thief for a little bit and I went with the Imperial and he was all "Stormcloaks! Maybe we can reason with them [and get out of here together]!" I realized my first character had murdered some innocent reasonable Imperial soldiers, and I felt a little sickly about it...

Edited September 6, 2012 by AnkhAscendant

[StayFrosty05]

 

 

 

But anyway, you know the real "What have I done" moment? Escaping Helgen. I went with the Stormcloak the first time, and he was all like "Imperials! We have to get them!" so I murdered some Imperial soldier. Then when I eventually started a new character just to play a thief for a little bit and I went with the Imperial and he was all "Stormcloaks! Maybe we can reason with them [and get out of here together]!" I realized my first character had murdered some innocent reasonable Imperial soldiers, and I felt a little sickly about it...

 

I am happy to report Hadvar isn't among the Imperials you have to fight on the way out of Helgen....I follow Ralof the Stormcloak, simply because I can't reason why my guy would continue to follow the dude who keeps referring to him as 'Prisoner' and was a part of the crew that was about to behead him....that tells my character if he keeps following Hadvar he remains a prisoner and will be meeting the chopping block again in the very near future.....But sometime later in the game if I decide to partake in the Civil War my guy sides with the Imperials....and runs into Hadvar again...Hadvar makes a comment about Helgen and they eventually end up friends anyway.