RGMage2 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 I don't have a side in this discussion, but I do think it just gets wackier and wackier. Alabama: pregnant woman shot in stomach is charged in fetus's death ... Good old TalibamaChristian Ol' Sharia Law for the people. Talibangelicals and the Republicans they vote in, have completely lost their minds. So what are you saying here. Just as an example say it was a random person just walked up and shot the woman in the stomach , killing the baby that was wanted , should the perpetrator be charged for murder or not. Or better yet its just a guy who doesn't want to be stuck raising the baby , so assaults the woman ,beating her stomach. So for prosecution charges is that a baby that died or is it just a blob of cells. I'm just saying it this way cause I'm not sure what angle your taking on it. Your scenarios don't work because in reality it is the pregnant woman who is being charged, not the shooter. The slippery slope I see would go something like this: Pregnant woman rides bicycle, pregnant woman falls off bicycle and miscarries, pregnant woman charged with manslaughter due to her reckless endangerment of baby/fetus. Sounds crazy, like it would never happen, and yet if you follow the logic in the shooting charges then the bike rider being charged with manslaughter is not so farfetched. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 I don't have a side in this discussion, but I do think it just gets wackier and wackier. Alabama: pregnant woman shot in stomach is charged in fetus's death ... Good old TalibamaChristian Ol' Sharia Law for the people. Talibangelicals and the Republicans they vote in, have completely lost their minds. So what are you saying here. Just as an example say it was a random person just walked up and shot the woman in the stomach , killing the baby that was wanted , should the perpetrator be charged for murder or not. Or better yet its just a guy who doesn't want to be stuck raising the baby , so assaults the woman ,beating her stomach. So for prosecution charges is that a baby that died or is it just a blob of cells. I'm just saying it this way cause I'm not sure what angle your taking on it. Your scenarios don't work because in reality it is the pregnant woman who is being charged, not the shooter. The slippery slope I see would go something like this: Pregnant woman rides bicycle, pregnant woman falls off bicycle and miscarries, pregnant woman charged with manslaughter due to her reckless endangerment of baby/fetus. Sounds crazy, like it would never happen, and yet if you follow the logic in the shooting charges then the bike rider being charged with manslaughter is not so farfetched. Actually, I could see that happening..... Vehicular Manslaughter, or something equally as ridiculous..... I could also see folks being prosecuted for drinking while pregnant...... or a host of other crimes related to what folks ingest/introduce to their bodies in various other ways, while pregnant. None of which are considered 'good' for a developing fetus. How about the state suing mom for giving birth to a baby that suffers from fetal alcohol syndrome? Or born addicted to some drug or other? Yeah, that could be interesting...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harbringe Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) I don't have a side in this discussion, but I do think it just gets wackier and wackier. Alabama: pregnant woman shot in stomach is charged in fetus's death ... Good old TalibamaChristian Ol' Sharia Law for the people. Talibangelicals and the Republicans they vote in, have completely lost their minds. So what are you saying here. Just as an example say it was a random person just walked up and shot the woman in the stomach , killing the baby that was wanted , should the perpetrator be charged for murder or not. Or better yet its just a guy who doesn't want to be stuck raising the baby , so assaults the woman ,beating her stomach. So for prosecution charges is that a baby that died or is it just a blob of cells. I'm just saying it this way cause I'm not sure what angle your taking on it. Your scenarios don't work because in reality it is the pregnant woman who is being charged, not the shooter. The slippery slope I see would go something like this: Pregnant woman rides bicycle, pregnant woman falls off bicycle and miscarries, pregnant woman charged with manslaughter due to her reckless endangerment of baby/fetus. Sounds crazy, like it would never happen, and yet if you follow the logic in the shooting charges then the bike rider being charged with manslaughter is not so farfetched. Actually, I could see that happening..... Vehicular Manslaughter, or something equally as ridiculous..... I could also see folks being prosecuted for drinking while pregnant...... or a host of other crimes related to what folks ingest/introduce to their bodies in various other ways, while pregnant. None of which are considered 'good' for a developing fetus. How about the state suing mom for giving birth to a baby that suffers from fetal alcohol syndrome? Or born addicted to some drug or other? Yeah, that could be interesting...... All of these examples are possible , the difference between the ones I gave and the ones your discussing (including the particular case mentioned) is intent. Reckless endangerment doesn't carry the same onus of responsibility as does purposefully going out and beating a woman's stomach as to not to be accountable for raising that child. And there in lay the problem. If you treat the baby as a being with rights then the full range of law (murder in this case) can be applied commensurate with his intent of not being held responsible for raising that child. But if the baby is just a blob of cells with no rights , then he can get away with what was the intent of his actions in the first place. This is the very reasons laws are written in this manner , where they fail is when prosecutor's and judges fail to show prosecutorial or judicial discretion. ie the pregnant woman attacked the other woman and she shot back kinda idea. Was it the right decision I dunno (she did know she was pregnant after all). This sort of thing opens up a real can of worms. For the so called pro woman/pro choice crowd the worst case scenario is this. Woman is one day from birth , man hates woman and child , man kills both , is it double or single homicide. If double then its an admission the baby has rights (defeating all their pro choice arguments) , if single and baby has no rights, your letting man get away with the fullness of his murderous intent. Edited July 2, 2019 by Harbringe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGMage2 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 This is the very reasons laws are written in this manner , where they fail is when prosecutor's and judges fail to show prosecutorial or judicial discretion.There is some indication prosecutors might show appropriate discretion. Marshae Jones might not be prosecuted in unborn baby’s death, prosecutors say The dateline on the story is June 28th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvnchrist Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 I don't have a side in this discussion, but I do think it just gets wackier and wackier. Alabama: pregnant woman shot in stomach is charged in fetus's death ... Good old TalibamaChristian Ol' Sharia Law for the people. Talibangelicals and the Republicans they vote in, have completely lost their minds. Why are you bringing religion into this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) I don't have a side in this discussion, but I do think it just gets wackier and wackier. Alabama: pregnant woman shot in stomach is charged in fetus's death ... Good old TalibamaChristian Ol' Sharia Law for the people. Talibangelicals and the Republicans they vote in, have completely lost their minds. Why are you bringing religion into this ? While not really a topic for discussion here, religion IS the primary driving factor behind the folks that want to ban abortion...... Keep in mind, these are the same folks that don't believe in birth control as well...... It's that whole 'be fruitful, and multiply' thing. Edited July 2, 2019 by HeyYou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGMage2 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 I was visiting my 83 year old mother on the weekend and I mentioned the story about the woman being shot and then charged for the death of the fetus. I was interested in what she would think about it. Her opinions were somewhat conflicted, being for abortion and against it at the same time depending on the situation, but she also reminded me of a story I've heard a few times. She herself was an unwanted child. My grandmother's 7th child was stillborn, after which she requested of her doctor to have her tubes tied. The doctor refused because my grandmother was a catholic, I'm not sure how that worked but that's the way it was. So my mom was technically the 8th child and unwanted, and my grandmother made a point of telling her she was unwanted - nice lady :laugh: , I guess it was just one too many for her and she was quite old by that time. So if gran gets birth control then mom doesn't get born and neither do I. I support liberal abortion laws in the first 6 - 8 weeks of pregnancy, but I suspect if we had always had liberal abortion laws then a lot of us wouldn't be here today to argue about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oblivionaddicted Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 These anti-abortion laws aren't essentially about religion but about ensuring the group controls the individual's acts to better destroy the individual liberties, something systematic in the dictatorships. The dictator don't need to have a god-based ideology to oppress people.What they need is an ideology that prevents the critical mind, creates the fear among those who are tempted to go against the group among other things. Alabama is a right-wing state and the right-wing ideologies have always been based on the concentration of powers like marxism-leninism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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