The shaming of non-premium users needs to stop!

[AugustaCalidia]

Referencing Nexus Mods Expenses, Nexus Mods is not only spending a lot on bandwidth as Reneer has pointed out earlier, but the "greedy" Nexus staff are even contributing a substantial sum to reward mod authors for their hard work.

 

To put recent events into perspective, it's also worth reading this news item from October 2018: Download Speed Cap Increase.

[twisted630]

The only free thing free users and supporters are complaining about is the free redirecting web page that is unnecessary and dumb. removing that would be a start to get the majority of the complaints to stop.

[GaStuSage]

I just think it's disheartening that a site built around a passion we all share, be it using or making mods, can be so easily changed to favor users based on whether they pay or not.

 

Of course I am owed nothing by this site, nor have any grounds to demand anything, especially as a free user myself. I understand it costs the owners money for servers and that the staff should be paid for the time and effort they put into maintaining and updating the site for all of us. If I have come across as entitled or complaining for the sake of it in my previous posts I do apologize as that wasn't the intention, I am just genuinely concerned by the connotations behind the change.

 

I just wonder what has caused the sudden and abrupt push for users to upgrade to premium, if not money. These last few months of my time on the site, first with the banners and now the download redirect, has been the only real push on premium memberships I have seen in my several years here but with no reason why. Yet again I understand it is the choice and right of the owners to do whatever they want, but when a site that is usually so open and engaging and asking feedback from all of its users stops doing so and implements a change that impacts the majority of us it is concerning.

 

And if it is money related issues, why didn't the owners feel as though they could call upon the community and ask for donations rather than a change like this, which clearly does favor paying users and which has sadly caused a clear divide in the user base just by reading the replies in this post alone. I, and I am sure the majority of other users of this site, premium or not, would most certainly help the site, and more important the community that uses it, in a time of need.

 

Like I said before, it is disheartening, even scary, that such a large part of the modding community, and certainly the part that introduced me to the hobby, could be changed like this for no obvious reason. Of course in the grand scheme of the site this is a small change, but it just feels odd that I myself was asked for feedback in the site redesign and was kept updated with news posts throughout that whole process and made to feel like part of the community with absolutely no mention of the fact that I am a free member, to be met with a change like this that is now suddenly reminding me that I am just that. And no whilst I am definitely not being forced to pay, it certainly seems as though the suggestion is there if I want to go back to the same experience I have had for years prior.

 

It also makes me think that if changes like this can occur, and that anybody who is speaking out is constantly being told to either pay up, deal with it, leave etc., then that in the future access to these sites could just as easily be taken away from non-paying users completely and without warning, in the same way this change has come about, and that those who have paid simply wouldn't care, even though in reality we are all just as equally invested in what is arguably the largest community of enthusiasts in the modding hobby as a whole.

 

I would hate for this to be the beginning of the end of the very inclusive community and hobby that I have had the pleasure of being a part of for years here on the Nexus.

 

I commend you for thoughtfully stating your point of view. I myself can agree with at least the sentiment of it, but sentiment doesn't put bread on the table.

 

Keep in mind there are people that provide this service so that we can all enjoy it. Should they do this for free, or for what little comes from ads when most users, myself included, run ad-blockers? I say that knowing full well that I have been one of the many that has exacerbated this issue for years, which I'm sure plays a large part in the Nexus having to resort to more extreme measures to encourage membership.

 

If you've enjoyed this site for as long as you have, or I have, and you've trusted them up until now, are you saying (maybe not you specifically) that this perceived slight is enough to throw them and their service to the curb? If you've placed your trust in this place for this long, is it so hard to trust that there may be a reason behind this extra inconvenience - annoying as it may be?

 

If the vast majority of users of this service are going to simply throw flame and judgement at this site, and those who have decided to pay for membership, and not band together to encourage membership themselves, when that's obviously an issue here, what do you think the end result will be? Do you expect the people providing this service to simply do nothing while they watch costs climb and revenue decline? Do you expect the Nexus staff to take a cut in pay, so you can continue to use this service unhindered for free? A service most of you have admitted to using and enjoying. Do you need a personal email from them begging for a donation? Is it too much for those of you who can pay and simply wont, for whatever reason, to take a moment and think about what this site means to you personally, and what this place provides to all of it's users - free of charge - and if you can safely say you've enjoyed using this site - and again, IF YOU CAN pay, why not just fork over some dough? Bread needs to be made. If you're not in a position to pay now, but can later, why not do it then? If you have no way of paying for the little extra premium gains you, then don't worry, the site and it's services are still free, right?

 

If you're in a position that grants you some disposable income, but you need a service you already use for free to buy you a sports car, a pony, a pack of smokes, or pluck your chicken for you before you'll support with a bit of cash, for a bit of a return - then, orc say: that's weak.

 

 

 

And you could also argue that it is advertising, which I as a supporter have paid to not see.

You could also argue that "ad-free" applies only to third-party ads in the ad rotation.

 

You could argue that, but would you win according to applicable "truth in advertising" laws?

 

 

Premium memberships have always been promoted well enough in the integrated banners

As of April 2019, only 0.7% of the Nexus' 18 million users have Premium accounts.

 

Perhaps the reason is not that it's been underadvertised, but that people don't think Premium gives enough value for money.

 

 

So, you expect the differences between free membership and premium membership to be even more unequal? Or are you looking to have your dog walked, car washed, shoes shined, steak cut up for you, etc, to encourage you to pay for a service you've enjoyed for as long as you have? Would a hug, or a birthday card be enough? Both?

 

 

 

You know what? Its not even just dumb, I don't have the money to spend on premium. I'm already tired of having to re-download, re-patch, re-merge mods that are broken by Creation Club updates. Now there's this dumb extra two windows and countdown which keeps me away from playing my game for even more time, and when you have multiple mods that need updating its super noticeable. All this does is make me not want to play anything or even use this site.

 

 

Premium is $2.99/mo, a LOT less than what you pay for internet access.

 

Its more so that I don't buy premium anything. With all these subscription services coming out its just an eyesore to see the words PAY US MONEY plastered everywhere on everything.

 

 

I'll agree that ad saturation sucks, but (hehe - sucks... but) everything has it's price. Just don't live where there are a lot of billboards. Or, at least, try to prioritize what you're willing to subscribe to.

 

I get the impression people think only Premium keeps the site afloat. Surely the biggest revenue stream by far is still ads?

 

I think you're reading a bit too much into it. But, I'm sure there are other ways they generate income as well - I would hope anyway. That said, costs rise with expansion - more users, more mods, more staff, etc. At some point something like this was bound to happen, and with the percentage of paying members being as low as it is, what do we expect them to do?

 

[3aq]

 

 

Nexusmods is a for-profit entity, it's not a charity.

 

They have to pay for their staff, taxes, bills, and scalability and these things do not run cheapily. Money doesn't simply grow on trees.

 

Sadly, if you are a regular user then you're using their platform without giving anything in return to the site. You could argue that you're contributing with mods and goodwill, but at the end of the day that won't and doesn't keep the lights on at night. It's money. And in that respect, they have their own right in how they conduct their business in order to keep it all afloat. Again, I must emphasize money doesn't simply grow on tree. You can argue that you've enabled and perhaps even clicked on the ads, however there's only so much revenue you'll be able to generate as a repeated site visitor (ad-revenue generates most its money from the new visitors and even then, adblock being prevalent as it is, it's pretty little).

 

At the end of the day, this isn't a shaming issue, it's the lack of funding or Nexusmods addressing their budgeting issue.

 

Okay, so I wanted to address these in a go. The problem with the ad is that you're basically going "It's for-profit, so it has the right to do this." Sure, it does. The entire point of this thread is people going "Maybe you shouldn't.". And sure, I guess I get the point that I don't have to view this as a community site. And I don't think I'd have chosen the choice to go "we're just a business". But hey, you do you.

 

As I've stated, they (Nexusmods) have their right in how they conduct their business in order to keep it all afloat. It's in their own interest, and I hope yours as well, to keep the their company (and site by extension) operational. Nexusmods haven't cut off access to mods so it's quite pitiful for this cry of injustice. And look, if you don't care one way or another about the well being of the site operation then that's fine too-- just don't complain about the changes they make, at the end of the day, it's not you who is footing the bills for all of this.

 

If every site owner followed the sort of mind set you and so many others like you have proposed that being treating business as a charity, then more than likely those sites would go belly up in due time. Please, just stop with the entitlement, it's getting old and fast.

 

 

Holy extrapolation, Batman!

 

Anyway, this is a great example of my argument (can-should), and I usually duck out when people start strawmanning what I mean, so I'm .. just going to drop it.

 

 

And that somehow invalidates my point and quite literally the entire underlying problem that has lead to this topic? Oh woe to me, I apologize for that last quip, I just find it tiresome when these sort of post keep cropping up, repeating itself on quite literally every sort of website that function under the misassumption that it's a charity, it gets old and fast.

[Arthmoor]

The only free thing free users and supporters are complaining about is the free redirecting web page that is unnecessary and dumb. removing that would be a start to get the majority of the complaints to stop.

Nah, there'd just be something else for the non-paying members to find to complain about instead. It seems to be the norm for anything to do with modding and modding websites.

[Pasquale1223]

 

 

Some people, for example, might only have 30 spare dollars a month after bills.

 

Premium is US$2.99 for a month. $30 > $2.99. When Premium expires, you'll be a Supporter for life.

 

But if you can't afford Premium, that's fine. Nobody's being forced to buy Premium. If you can't afford the items in a store, do you complain to the store manager that you can't afford anything? No, you just don't buy anything. Affordability is the most ridiculous argument I've seen here.

 

"Free" today never means free. You always pay something.

• Want free social networking? You pay with your information.
• Want free access to a media outlet? You pay with your attention.
• Want free file sharing? You pay with your time.

Free users have had a good run of the Nexus for more than a decade, but it's not sustainable. Nexus has grown significantly over the years and yet, as of April 2019, only 0.7% of the Nexus' 18 million users were paying customers. Something had to be done to course correct. Now, free users pay with their time. This is good for everyone.

 

 

Uh-huh. Man, I didn't realize I had to treat everything as a transactional resource. Good to know that the Nexus thinks of itself as a business, and not a community.

 

 

In any case, the problem here can be seen as two fold- making an appeal that one should support the site as a matter of morality ignores the fact that people may not view things the way you do, and the second issue is that people may not agree that they received 50 of value from the site. The costs of the site are irrelevant when customers make a purchasing decision - they look at their value.

 

.. And that ignores the fact you may not wish for people to be making purely transactional decisions when they use a community website.

 

I don't mean to pick on you in particular, but I've seen several people make similar comments in this thread, and I'd like to address those sentiments.

 

The Nexus offers its essential services free-of-charge; it always has and hopefully always will. It gives mod authors a place to share the fruits of their labors with an international audience of eager recipients in an atmosphere where their intellectual property will be respected and supported, and a knowledgeable community will be there to help support would-be users who experience issues trying to get the mods to work for them. It offers a massive catalog of game enhancements of every kind imaginable, tools to manage them, and tools, examples, and support for those trying to create their first mods. It hosts forums where people can discuss a wide variety of topics - some gaming and technology related, some not - and maintains a staff of moderators who show up day after day to tidy up the place.

 

For some, the Nexus serves as pseudo cloud storage for the mods they use. It's stability and longevity means that users who typically employ hundreds of mods can delete them to temporarily free up disk space, and retrieve them again as desired.

 

They charge nothing for any of this, yet they have expenses to cover. Expenses covered by those who voluntarily contribute to keep the doors open, lights on, and mods freely flowing. They also monitor monetary exchanges between authors and end-users, discouraging commission offers while providing the means for users to freely contribute to authors. Overall, they've taken a number of steps to keep mods freely available to all.

 

For my part, I purchase very few new games, preferring to instead re-play games already in my library, and Nexus mods greatly enhance my ability to do that. Instead of buying a new game this year, I chose to purchase the premium membership here, as I want this site to continue to thrive.

 

It's not about the premium features. The increased download speed means nothing to me, and I still have a link at the top of the page inviting me to Buy Premium. I use Firefox and block ads on most sites. As far as I'm concerned, the premium features afforded to those who contribute are really just minimal minor perks, token appreciation so the Nexus can say they give something to users who contribute.

 

I'd also like to say how very grateful I am to those members who have built and supported the site long before I came along. And I'm especially glad the Nexus has never resorted to fund-raising campaigns or slapped annoying banners on every page begging for donations. Instead, they (mostly quietly) offer premium memberships, which comes across to me as much more professional and business-like.

 

(Note: I can't comment on the current state of pushing premium memberships, as I haven't downloaded anything recently.)

 

All that said, to those trying to justify their "reasoning" for not contributing - just don't. If you can afford games and the hardware to play them on, you can probably toss some money at the Nexus. Yes, there are exceptions. Some people have internet and sophisticated hardware for work. Some people have banking / credit / identity / general payment issues. Thing is, most mods are luxury additions to luxury goods. They aren't food, clothing, shelter, or health care. First world problems, eh? If you - or the dictates of your situation - have determined not to contribute cash up to this point, just own it. The Nexus will serve you mods, tools, and support regardless.

 

TLDR: The point of supporting this site with actual cash is not the premium features offered, but keeping it open for business.

 

 

 

Nexusmods is a for-profit entity, it's not a charity.

 

They have to pay for their staff, taxes, bills, and scalability and these things do not run cheapily. Money doesn't simply grow on trees.

 

Sadly, if you are a regular user then you're using their platform without giving anything in return to the site. You could argue that you're contributing with mods and goodwill, but at the end of the day that won't and doesn't keep the lights on at night. It's money. And in that respect, they have their own right in how they conduct their business in order to keep it all afloat. Again, I must emphasize money doesn't simply grow on tree. You can argue that you've enabled and perhaps even clicked on the ads, however there's only so much revenue you'll be able to generate as a repeated site visitor (ad-revenue generates most its money from the new visitors and even then, adblock being prevalent as it is, it's pretty little).

 

At the end of the day, this isn't a shaming issue, it's the lack of funding or Nexusmods addressing their budgeting issue.

 

Okay, so I wanted to address these in a go. The problem with the ad is that you're basically going "It's for-profit, so it has the right to do this." Sure, it does. The entire point of this thread is people going "Maybe you shouldn't.". And sure, I guess I get the point that I don't have to view this as a community site. And I don't think I'd have chosen the choice to go "we're just a business". But hey, you do you.

 

I've no idea how you got that impression from my post. I've never considered or treated the Nexus as a for-profit enterprise, and regard it as a community resource.

 

But like a lot of other community resources - food pantries, homeless shelters, animal shelters, even churches - they have bills to pay and require ongoing financial support to continue to operate.

 

The gist of my post was an attempt to convey a view that is pretty much the opposite of transactional. The perks of premium membership are meaningless to me; I contribute because I want the Nexus to continue to exist. Maybe I didn't state that clearly enough, or maybe my post got jumbled with some others in your mind.

[fireundubh]

My point is that the doom and gloom fingerpointing about non-Premium members driving the site into the ground is a tad over the top

I agree. I would say that the doom-and-glooming about this change is likewise over the top. But this is the Internet and there's only so much time in the day...

 

 

Good to know that the Nexus thinks of itself as a business, and not a community.

Did all the Nexus news posts about expenses and new hires not tip you off?

 

How about the name of the company "Black Tree Gaming Ltd."? "Ltd." is a standard legal abbreviation for its corporate structure.

 

How about the front page? "We host 237,905 files for 855 games from 98,803 authors serving 18,933,350 members with 3,662,939,491 downloads to date."

 

That's a network of 855 communities, like the Planet Network owned by GameSpy Industries back in the day.

 

There is no such thing as "the community." The Nexus is a platform and has been for quite a while.

 

 

1. You should look up UI/UX stuff. Adding extra clicks is usually a bad idea.

 

I've never argued for extra clicks or page reloads. In fact, I've already given my feedback to the Nexus on how to address it but everyone is on holiday vacation.

Edited December 16, 2019 by fireundubh

[fireundubh]

I would also like to point out something about Premium membership:

 

Some percentage of Premium membership revenue is allocated for distribution to mod authors via Donation Points.

 

Premium membership revenue doesn't just help the Nexus as a business; it helps those of us who make the mods and tools you came here for.

[Pasquale1223]

 

Assuming my low ball estimates hold: 94.4k per month is a yearly income of 1.132 *million* before the lump sump shots and supporter buys and what little ad revenue they get. Are you *trying to tell me that the Nexus has expenses in excess of 1.1 million!?*

Maybe? Have you taken a look at the overview of their expenses at all? Nexus is clearly spending a lot of money on bandwidth.

 

 

I would guess their biggest expense is payroll. They employ 13 full-time staff members and all that entails.

 

[StormWolf01]

 

 

Assuming my low ball estimates hold: 94.4k per month is a yearly income of 1.132 *million* before the lump sump shots and supporter buys and what little ad revenue they get. Are you *trying to tell me that the Nexus has expenses in excess of 1.1 million!?*

Maybe? Have you taken a look at the overview of their expenses at all? Nexus is clearly spending a lot of money on bandwidth.

 

 

I would guess their biggest expense is payroll. They employ 13 full-time staff members and all that entails.

 

 

That's actually not even funny. Not even as a joke.

Now, I don't know if this has changed in the last 10 years, but I do remember that when I left, FORUM staff were here as volunteers. So under that equation, we are talking about "skilled" employees, such as programmers, web developers, etc. People who make a pretty decent hourly wage, or they go elsewhere where they will.

Let's just say, that I work as tech support for Robin. (This is purely an example, I'm unemployed ATM so I don't currently work for Robin or anybody else, sadly). Here in NJ, decent tech support gets paid oh... say... $16 an hour. (Again, this is just an example.)

16x40 per week, $640 dollars. Per month, 2,560.00. Per year, 30,720.00.

Now, lets say that the other 12 co-workers made the same. $399,360.00 per year. Almost four hundred thousand, outta his pocket, for those 13 employees, per year.

And that's US, Not UK.

Now, I dunno about the UK and how their healthcare stuff is handled, but if one of those employees is located in the US, there's also the Obamacare health insurance mandates for full time employees. Even paying half the premiums, that ain't cheap to an employer.