Proposal: Allow the repackaging of "Dead Mods" for use with modern Mod Managers.

[HadToRegister]

OK, there are plenty of Mods on the Nexus that were uploaded before Mod Managers were a thing, and before a "Standard" came about for packaging of those mods, and because of thise, these mods get downloaded but then scrapped, because they're meant for manual installation, or are zipped up incorrectly to that the files all go to the Data Folder, or all of the files go to their own Folder which is incorrect.

Would it be within the TOS, or some compromise come about where a modder or two, or a team of modders, WITH or WITHOUT permission (For Dead Mods, or Mods where the Author doesn't respond, and hasn't been active for years) to just download, repackage WITHOUT CHANGING any Files, under the stipulation, that said mod, is then uploaded to the ORIGINAL Mod page, in order to maintain the Credit, Endorsements, and Downloads for the Original modder, so that anybody who repackages the mod(s) can't set up their own Mod page and rake in Downloads, DP points etc?

I think that would be a good compromise.

Thoughts?

This would be just a simple repackage to modern Mod Manager STANDARDS packaging, without changing anything, except for maybe for the advanced stuff where a Installation Menu would be needed.

[Arthmoor]

So what standard are you looking to impose? Who decides what that standard is? What if said package works perfectly fine for, say, MO2, but doesn't for Vortex?

 

Something like this wouldn't be a bad idea, but these kinds of questions need to be answered first. And then I'd wager an automated method for doing this would be necessary because there's literally thousands of "badly packaged" mods laying around on the site. Even with a dedicated team of people on this it would take years to go through everything. And that would just be for the Bethesda games :P

[AugustaCalidia]

HTR has identified a genuine need, especially when it comes to modding Oblivion, Fallout 3, and, to some extent, Fallout NV.

 

For Vortex users at least, might it be possible for Vortex to identify non-standard mods and rebuild them for an individual user's game? I recall that MO had some such capability. If I remember correctly, it was not an automated process. Rather, MO notified you that "some re-assembly is required" and then allowed you to change the mod so that it would work in your game. However, this "change" did not actually rebuild the mod. Rather, you simply told MO what portion of the mod should count as the Data folder. Present and former users of MO, please tell me if I've gotten this all wrong.

 

This Vortex solution would be of no use to those who use other mod managers lacking such capabilities.

[HadToRegister]

So what standard are you looking to impose? Who decides what that standard is? What if said package works perfectly fine for, say, MO2, but doesn't for Vortex?

 

Something like this wouldn't be a bad idea, but these kinds of questions need to be answered first. And then I'd wager an automated method for doing this would be necessary because there's literally thousands of "badly packaged" mods laying around on the site. Even with a dedicated team of people on this it would take years to go through everything. And that would just be for the Bethesda games :tongue:

 

 

The standard way that mods are being packaged now, work with NMM, Vortex, MO, MO2 et al.

 

I don't believe there are any mods packaged that would work with MO2 but not with Vortex or NMM etc.

[HadToRegister]

HTR has identified a genuine need, especially when it comes to modding Oblivion, Fallout 3, and, to some extent, Fallout NV.

 

For Vortex users at least, might it be possible for Vortex to identify non-standard mods and rebuild them for an individual user's game? I recall that MO had some such capability. If I remember correctly, it was not an automated process. Rather, MO notified you that "some re-assembly is required" and then allowed you to change the mod so that it would work in your game. However, this "change" did not actually rebuild the mod. Rather, you simply told MO what portion of the mod should count as the Data folder. Present and former users of MO, please tell me if I've gotten this all wrong.

 

This Vortex solution would be of no use to those who use other mod managers lacking such capabilities.

 

 

Yes, in MO and MO2, you can select which Folder in a zip is the "Root" DATA folder.

 

However, if you go back to Morrowind, you'll see things zipped up all kinds of weird ways, mainly because Mod Managers weren't even a thought back then, although they did start to appear in some rudimentary form by then, but by then, the modding community was flooded with mods packaged to be Manually Installed at that point.

 

[Arthmoor]

You haven't defined what "standard way" it is you're talking about though. I think that would need to be spelled out before such a proposal would make sense.

 

I'm not saying that doing this would be a bad thing, but it needs more than some vague assertion that X isn't following standard Y.

 

Plus it would still likely need to be done automatically in some fashion, and the only way that would be practical and of use for ALL mod managers is if the package is rebuilt on the server side, and any new uploads are rebuilt properly when submitted. Then of course there's the problem of what works for one game, may not work for another. So each game would need its "standard way" to be clearly spelled out.

[HadToRegister]

You haven't defined what "standard way" it is you're talking about though. I think that would need to be spelled out before such a proposal would make sense.

 

I'm not saying that doing this would be a bad thing, but it needs more than some vague assertion that X isn't following standard Y.

 

Plus it would still likely need to be done automatically in some fashion, and the only way that would be practical and of use for ALL mod managers is if the package is rebuilt on the server side, and any new uploads are rebuilt properly when submitted. Then of course there's the problem of what works for one game, may not work for another. So each game would need its "standard way" to be clearly spelled out.

 

 

Attempt NUMBER 5 to post this, all it does is sit there and say "SAVING POST..."

 

 

 

Standard Way for Bethesda Games

DATA as Root ( -OR- ) it's also possible to have the Esps, Esls, Esms etc in the root of the zip, as long as the Textures\, Meshes\ etc sub folders exist.

I've seen BOTH packages work, however, for a Standard I always packaged mine with DATA as the root.

FWIW, I spent a week or so downloading and repacking mods for use with Vortex, NMM etc to see if it was possbile to get these mods to work with a modern mod manager.

 

Data\ESPs

Data\ESLs

Data\ESPfes

Data\ESMs

Data\BSAs

Data\BA2s

 

Data\Textures\

Data\Meshes\

Data\Sound\

Data\Music\

Data\Scripts\

 

Data\"Script Extender Abbrev"\plugins\

 

 

 

For example, I've run into mods for Morrowind, Oblivion, FO3, where all of that is put INSIDE a Folder named after the Mod, which makes NMM, MO2, MO, Vortex choke and just make a Folder inside the game directory filled with the proper path, but none of it goes in the DATA folder.

 

However, MO, and MO2, have the ability to let you set the 'root' or DATA folder in those instances, where it WILL put those in the correct place.

 

I've also run across Mods that have multiple optional skin textures or what have you, where there 5 different skin textures, and 5 different folders with each skin texture, that you're supposed to pick the one you want and manually install.

So, a FOMOD menu would be needed in that instance, doing it in an automated way, would probably reuire making 5 different ZIp files each containing ONE of the skins each.

 

Another thing I'd like to suggest is Compiling the "Scavenger Hunt" mods onto one page.

 

(People who try to install Martigen's Monster MOd" for Oblivion know what I'm talking about)

 

You have to go to Marts MMM page, download the ESPs, BUT then you have to go to some other TES site and download the BSAs

 

I've run across other ones, such as SuperMutant Redux where you have to go between at least 3 different mods pages in order to get it properly installed, along with Raider Overhaul

 

​It would be nice if those could be complied together with clear instructions on how to install, what to install first etc.

But that's a different issue right now.

[AugustaCalidia]

Plus it would still likely need to be done automatically in some fashion, and the only way that would be practical and of use for ALL mod managers is if the package is rebuilt on the server side, and any new uploads are rebuilt properly when submitted. Then of course there's the problem of what works for one game, may not work for another. So each game would need its "standard way" to be clearly spelled out.

 

I agree. Rebuilding mods on the server side is the most practical way to accomplish "standardization," I also agree that what is "standard" for each game (or game group such as certain Bethesda games) needs to be spelled out very clearly.

 

Should server side mod repackaging not be possible, then we might consider doing some kind of "repackaging on the fly" with mod managers, as is done in MO and MO2. However, as far as I know, this feature in MO and MO2 is limited to certain Bethesda games only. What about the 1000 games whose mods are currently hosted on the Nexus Mods site? Presumably some or all of these games have mods falling short of some standard packaging required for them. What do we do then?

 

This is a fascinating issue.

[M48A5]

Yet none of you have mentioned the mod manager made for Fallout3 and Fallout: New Vegas.

 

There are those of us that do not use the "latest and greatest", but stick with the mod manager that was made for the two mentioned fallout games. What is the proposal for us.

Have VORTEX shoved down our throats?

 

As for some of the old mods requiring a manual installation, if you don't know how to install a mod manually, you have no business modding the game. Being able to drag and drop files is a basic computer skill that everyone needs to learn. The same goes for being able to read file paths. If you can't do that, learn how to before you start modding the games.

 

Have everything available on one page? You mean like mod packs?

Edited September 4, 2020 by M48A5

[HadToRegister]

Yet none of you have mentioned the mod manager made for Fallout3 and Fallout: New Vegas.

 

There are those of us that do not use the "latest and greatest", but stick with the mod manager that was made for the two mentioned fallout games. What is the proposal for us.

Have VORTEX shoved down our throats?

 

As for some of the old mods requiring a manual installation, if you don't know how to install a mod manually, you have no business modding the game. Being able to drag and drop files is a basic computer skill that everyone needs to learn. The same goes for being able to read file paths. If you can't do that, learn how to before you start modding the games.

 

Have everything available on one page? You mean like mod packs?

 

 

Because they're old and I see people complaining about them all the time, and just like Windows XP, that caused Website Developers to make TWO versions of the websites they made, in order to accommodate Internet Explorer 6 users who refused to "Move On", it's time to move on.

Stay in the past if you want, nobody really cares.

 

Anyway, you can reject the newer mod managers if you want, because I'm not saying to REMOVE the older incorrectly packaged mods, NOWHERE Did I say Remove the Old Packaged Mods, NOWHERE, so Calm Down.

 

I'm saying that there are a lot of mods out there that need to be repackaged, which would get uploaded to the SAME Mod's Mod page, as a download OPTION to the old mod.

 

And there's no need for the elitist "If you can install a mod manually" stuff, because you can install ANY mod manually if you want, whether it's repackaged for a Mod Manager or not, so, no need for Strawmen.

 

AND NO, read my post again, NOWHERE Did I say to upload all of the repackaged mods On to ONE SINGLE PAGE, like Mod Packs.

 

I said for EACH Mod that is repackaged, to be uploaded to that Mods ORIGINAL PAGE.

 

Here it is again, just like it's written, I have a feeling you skimmed my entire posts and your Knee Jerked, way before you finished reading it.

 

repackage WITHOUT CHANGING any Files, under the stipulation, that said mod, is then uploaded to the ORIGINAL Mod page