Modding Bethesda Games on Game Pass - What we know so far

[EnaiSiaion]

In response to post #91947883. #91948568, #91948623, #91948758, #91949048, #91949223, #91949548, #91949748, #91950453, #91959448, #91963258, #91966083, #91966758, #91967388, #91967558 are all replies on the same post.

StopGap11 wrote: So how soon is this happening and does that mean that we will now be unable to use mods with the games we paid money for unless we now pony up more money for a service we never asked for. To me this sounds like the bone headed creation club updates that Bethesada would put out that would make out current copy of SKSE useless and make all of out save games useless crap unless we figured out how to undo the "improvements" Bethesda forced down our throats. Of course, if my interpretation is wrong here, I'll be the first, and the happiest to admit it. Of course, if I am right in my interpretation ( really hope that I am not) I'm not blaming anyone at Nexus for this, they didn't have anything to do with this, they're just the messengers here.

irinotecan wrote: This only applies to people who purchase the games in the Xbox/Windows store ("Game Pass").  If you bought the game(s) through Steam, GOG, or physical disc, this does not apply to you, nothing has changed.

Also, you can continue to purchase these games through Steam et al., and avoid the modding headaches associated with an Xbox/Windows store purchase.

Pickysaurus wrote: I'm not really sure what you're upset about here? The games are already out on Game Pass and it does not have any kind of impact on Steam/GOG installs. It's just another option for people who want to play these games. If you're worried about game updates causing problems in your setup there are plenty of guides/tools around to prevent that or back up your current version. 

gyrofalcon wrote: I am confused as well. This "change" from Microsoft, does it force all current owner of Skyrim SE, to also have the game on GamePass?
Or can current version of Skyrim SE, be modded and played the old fashion way, that we do now?
If all futured copies sold, only are available with MS GamePass, (no new sales on Steam, etc) it will be a shot in front of the baug to the community, but I do belive old-fashioned Skyrim (and Oldrim) will survive.
Edit: Answered by others in thread. "My" Skyrim will not change. :) So moral is; Stay away from MS GamePass.

Fyrcynn wrote: Might be a naive question, but does this even impact that many people? I'd think Steam is by far the larger platform with Microsoft's barely being used. Anyone who'd experience the joys Windows Live would stay away from them as a rule.

Saggaris wrote: Well StopGap, I felt a bit like a doom monger myself when I jumped miles ahead with some 'what Ifffff's'

What if Microsoft only allow the future of Bethesda games on Game Pass?
Then..
What if Microsoft close the holes and disallow modding/manipulation of their content?
Then...
What if Microsoft then provide a range of customisable features... for a price?

Oh hell, I'm glad I'm old and senile so's not to have to suffer 'naked' games for too long.

Blackread wrote: Judging by the number of gamepass related questions on r/skyrimmods recently, I'd say this does affect a fair number of people. Obviously the majority of modders will be on Steam still.

StopGap11 wrote: Cool! As I said earlier, I am most happy to have my initial interpretation to be proven wrong. Honestly, I'm totally unfamiliar with console games or the mechanics of modding them on console; I've used PC based games mods forever, so to me it was an entirely new area for me. I have learned that if you don't know it's best to admit it and ask for some help. So thank you all for putting my mind at rest, it's most appreciated. :)
P.S. Sorry for the mini freak out there. I had a gut reaction to seeing all of my favorite games being added to a Microsoft service I was unfamiliar with and leaped before I looked.

showler wrote: Xbox was the console that actually gave people the ability to install half-decent mods.  It seems unlikely they will just up and kill modding on PC after working to implement it on the console.  Crying "Doomsday" is incredibly premature.

ralexpdx wrote: For the existing games yes, but what about Fallout 5 or Elder Scrolls 6. Microsoft is already talking some exclusivity here in the future, so there may NOT BE Steam versions/GoG versions, etc...

ff7legend wrote: The day Micro$oft locks Bethesda games behind the Micro$oft Store is the day I cease playing Bethesda games period.  Folks are going to simply have to start speaking with their wallets.  Look at the utter DISASTER that was Windows Live...  Windows Live was so bad it ended up being discontinued & relegated to the dustbins of history.  If it weren't for mods, Bethesda games wouldn't be remotely relevant a year or two after release.  Micro$oft had best tread carefully in this regard...

PancakeGoon wrote: Well, Game Pass is on PC as well, and is probably the vast majority of those GamePass Reddit threads.

Unfortunately, gaming has come to the point where you almost need a dedicated Launcher Drive in order to play all the games you want on your PC. Because of this, and M$ offering that 3-Months of 'GamePass for PC' for only $0.99, I grabbed it as a way to play & try games that I never could have otherwise afforded, especially all together, essentially for "free" (or a measly entry fee, in the grand scheme) and for that I'm thankful.

Unfortunately, this is still Microsoft and it has been recently riddled with different issues and annoyances, like the topic of this post. Also, super inconsistent compatibility problems, like these new Bethesda games not being able to run in Fullscreen without being surrounded by a huge grey box. Or, for some reason, no native controller support (how friggin' hard is it to patch in support for YOUR OWN controllers, on a game that's been successfully ported ON YOUR OS for years, after you just BOUGHT THE ENTIRE DEVELOPER & THEIR PARENTR COMPANY!? Get it together for Talos' sake...). Or this god awful launcher we're forced to use with NO graphics settings (other than Resolution, generic Low-Ultra "Quality" presets, and 2 types of AA, and On/Off parameters for pretty important settings, etc.). On a PC game...through their PC App.

Actually, I want my dollar back, Bill.

SteveB88 wrote: Thank goodness I bought my games on GOG and Steam. 

pndragon65 wrote: If it weren't for mods, Bethesda games would be unplayable

ff7legend wrote: Steam/GoG may not be an option for ES6/future Bethesda releases now that Micro$oft has gotten their GREEDY TENTACLES on Bethesda/Zenimax.  It will not surprise me to see ES6/future Bethesda games locked behind either the Micro$oft Store or Bethesda's crappy launcher...  This is why I absolutely DESPISE all these corporate mergers/buyouts.  In the end, it is the consumer who gets the shaft in the form of a lackluster watered-down product.  Look at what happened to WoW after Activision bought out Blizzard...  It TANKED HARD while WoW has lost millions of subscribers in the aftermath of said merger/buyout.

What if Microsoft only allow the future of Bethesda games on Game Pass?
Then..
What if Microsoft close the holes and disallow modding/manipulation of their content?
Then...
What if Microsoft then provide a range of customisable features... for a price?

Then Microsoft will make a lot of money because most people just want extra content for their game, not "mods" per se. Mods are a primitive form of DLC that is much harder to use but saves the price of a coffee (you get what you pay for).

Niche <<< majority.

[ThomGonring]

In response to post #91955663. #91980893, #92004163, #92005323, #92007078, #92015173, #92035723, #92041663 are all replies on the same post.

ff7legend wrote: No pun/disrespect intended towards console users but with Game Pass, one does not actually own the game in question.  If one fails to renew their yearly subscription to Game Pass, one will lose access to all those so-called "free games" they downloaded to their console's HDD/SSD.  The same applies to PS Plus users.  One is far better off buying the actual game vs obtaining it via Game Pass/PS Plus. 

I actually prefer physical media vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  With a physical copy, I actually OWN the game/music/movie in question & can watch/play/listen to it as many times as I wish without having to pay those nagging subscription fees.  Not only that but the overall sound/video quality of physical media is vastly superior vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  I still have my CDs/Blu-rays for this very reason & will not pay a subscription fee just to watch/play a game/movie or listen to my favorite music.  Total RIPOFF.

Another thing to be concerned with are all those DATA OVERAGE CHARGES one is likely to incur depending upon the ISP.  Streaming games/movies/videogames eats up A TON OF DATA.  This is especially true for 4K/8K video streaming.  Many ISPs here Stateside have monthly data caps & charge a King's ransom for going over one's monthly data allotment.  Others will simply throttle one's internet speeds to the point where streaming is impossible depending on the device used.  Either way, physical media is vastly superior & will save one a TON OF $$$$$$ in the long run...

GamingZacharyC wrote: Someone's a misinformed ranter on this forum. First, find an ISP that doesn't have a ridiculous data cap. 1.2 terabytes a month, my data cap, is plenty for me.

Second, renting your game or movie from a service like Netflix, Disney Plus, and Game Pass are really great options for people who only want to watch a movie once or twice. Chances are I'm never going to watch Frozen 2 again. Renting an entire library of games is a great way to go for people who play a game for a short while (think Human Fall Flat) before needing a new one. Game Pass is a great option for games that aren't replayable. Beyond that, streaming quality is getting better and better. If quality is your concern, well, I'm sorry to say that you're not getting a disk of Flora & Ulysses any time soon. There are times when you have to decide: Wallet or impractical peace of mind.

Something that I haven't even mentioned today is that Game Pass DOES NOT MAKE PROFIT as of yet. Microsoft is taking a gamble with it and hoping that people stick around long enough.

Owning a physical disk because of ISP charges is a very uninformed answer that just screams to me "too stubborn to change." Think about it this way: Owning an Xbox disk is really just a container for a license key and some metadata. You still have to download the game over the internet. Also, if game streaming services like GeForce Now didn't exist, there'd be plenty of games I couldn't play with my potato. Instead of paying upfront for a bunch of expensive hardware, I choose to rent it. My household doesn't incur data cap charges, like, ever.

Of course, I don't know why I'm bothering in an attempt to change the mind of someone who argues so naively anyway. I guess this is here for someone else to read and agree with.

Lominsa wrote: .. there are still ISPs that have data caps? I thought that was a thing of the past. At least in my country.

Kalell wrote: Sadly nearly every ISP here in the US has one, and even the few that don't will start throttling your connection if they feel you're using too much.

showler wrote: Game Pass isn't a streaming service to my knowledge.  You download the full game, but with a somewhat restrictive DRM (so you can't just copy it to another folder and keep it).  Unless you are constantly downloading and erasing the games, you won't use much more data than just buying and downloading the game.

SciRika wrote: My ISP added a data cap and tried to advertise it as a bonus "you now have 1TB of data!" when it was "you're now limited to only 1TB of data".

Chaosgod3456 wrote: thats not true ps plus games are free and not like game pass if you dont renew you still own the game

Kel1978 wrote: It's quite rude calling people names. If ff7legend is a ranter then so are you, GamingZacharyC, for ranting about his rant. His situation is different than yours. Maybe he doesn't have a great ISP. There are still places in the US without great connections so perhaps his options are limited. Don't be so judgy.

I prefer physical as well. If I really like a game on Gamepass, I'll buy the physical. I mostly go for collector's edition anyways.

I tried the console versions but modding was way too limiting. A mear 5gb? Ridiculous. I'll stick to PC for Bethesda games.

Or maybe to read and disagree . . .

#1 try not calling names: "ranter", it does not foster conversation, only reactions.

More specific to your post:

"Game Pass does not make a profit" "Microsoft is taking a gamble"

If you think game pass is going to remain a low monthly fee, think again.  The low initial price is a lure, and the "gamble" is a long term INVESTMENT. designed to generate profits, imagine that!  The price WILL GO UP.

As far as Game Pass's value, it's really as simple as this:

If you want to play a lot of games, and/or try them out without commitment:  Game Pass is Great! - Period

If you prefer a small amount of your favorite games, and/or like to mod:  Game Pass SUCKS! - Period

ALL OF YOU:  recognize that different people have different goals (Which is GOOD!), and stop trying to convert the opposite camp!

MOD CRITICIZERS:  Don't knock mods until you get them working right, because when you do: it transforms your game in ways you cannot imagine.  Skyrim (2011!) is still more playable than many modern games BECAUSE OF MODS.  Yes, they require some patience, but that patience is greatly rewarded.

LAST AND NOT LEAST:  ANY internet outage means no gaming with Game Pass.  If you're going to try and tell me your internet NEVER goes down, I will call you "nobody", because nobody's perfect (including the internet).

Thank you.

[DaveClaw]

In response to post #91955663. #91980893, #92004163, #92005323, #92007078, #92015173, #92035723, #92041663, #92072548 are all replies on the same post.

ff7legend wrote: No pun/disrespect intended towards console users but with Game Pass, one does not actually own the game in question.  If one fails to renew their yearly subscription to Game Pass, one will lose access to all those so-called "free games" they downloaded to their console's HDD/SSD.  The same applies to PS Plus users.  One is far better off buying the actual game vs obtaining it via Game Pass/PS Plus. 

I actually prefer physical media vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  With a physical copy, I actually OWN the game/music/movie in question & can watch/play/listen to it as many times as I wish without having to pay those nagging subscription fees.  Not only that but the overall sound/video quality of physical media is vastly superior vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  I still have my CDs/Blu-rays for this very reason & will not pay a subscription fee just to watch/play a game/movie or listen to my favorite music.  Total RIPOFF.

Another thing to be concerned with are all those DATA OVERAGE CHARGES one is likely to incur depending upon the ISP.  Streaming games/movies/videogames eats up A TON OF DATA.  This is especially true for 4K/8K video streaming.  Many ISPs here Stateside have monthly data caps & charge a King's ransom for going over one's monthly data allotment.  Others will simply throttle one's internet speeds to the point where streaming is impossible depending on the device used.  Either way, physical media is vastly superior & will save one a TON OF $$$$$$ in the long run...

GamingZacharyC wrote: Someone's a misinformed ranter on this forum. First, find an ISP that doesn't have a ridiculous data cap. 1.2 terabytes a month, my data cap, is plenty for me.

Second, renting your game or movie from a service like Netflix, Disney Plus, and Game Pass are really great options for people who only want to watch a movie once or twice. Chances are I'm never going to watch Frozen 2 again. Renting an entire library of games is a great way to go for people who play a game for a short while (think Human Fall Flat) before needing a new one. Game Pass is a great option for games that aren't replayable. Beyond that, streaming quality is getting better and better. If quality is your concern, well, I'm sorry to say that you're not getting a disk of Flora & Ulysses any time soon. There are times when you have to decide: Wallet or impractical peace of mind.

Something that I haven't even mentioned today is that Game Pass DOES NOT MAKE PROFIT as of yet. Microsoft is taking a gamble with it and hoping that people stick around long enough.

Owning a physical disk because of ISP charges is a very uninformed answer that just screams to me "too stubborn to change." Think about it this way: Owning an Xbox disk is really just a container for a license key and some metadata. You still have to download the game over the internet. Also, if game streaming services like GeForce Now didn't exist, there'd be plenty of games I couldn't play with my potato. Instead of paying upfront for a bunch of expensive hardware, I choose to rent it. My household doesn't incur data cap charges, like, ever.

Of course, I don't know why I'm bothering in an attempt to change the mind of someone who argues so naively anyway. I guess this is here for someone else to read and agree with.

Lominsa wrote: .. there are still ISPs that have data caps? I thought that was a thing of the past. At least in my country.

Kalell wrote: Sadly nearly every ISP here in the US has one, and even the few that don't will start throttling your connection if they feel you're using too much.

showler wrote: Game Pass isn't a streaming service to my knowledge.  You download the full game, but with a somewhat restrictive DRM (so you can't just copy it to another folder and keep it).  Unless you are constantly downloading and erasing the games, you won't use much more data than just buying and downloading the game.

SciRika wrote: My ISP added a data cap and tried to advertise it as a bonus "you now have 1TB of data!" when it was "you're now limited to only 1TB of data".

Chaosgod3456 wrote: thats not true ps plus games are free and not like game pass if you dont renew you still own the game

Kel1978 wrote: It's quite rude calling people names. If ff7legend is a ranter then so are you, GamingZacharyC, for ranting about his rant. His situation is different than yours. Maybe he doesn't have a great ISP. There are still places in the US without great connections so perhaps his options are limited. Don't be so judgy.

I prefer physical as well. If I really like a game on Gamepass, I'll buy the physical. I mostly go for collector's edition anyways.

I tried the console versions but modding was way too limiting. A mear 5gb? Ridiculous. I'll stick to PC for Bethesda games.

ThomGonring wrote: Or maybe to read and disagree . . .

#1 try not calling names: "ranter", it does not foster conversation, only reactions.

More specific to your post:

"Game Pass does not make a profit" "Microsoft is taking a gamble"

If you think game pass is going to remain a low monthly fee, think again.  The low initial price is a lure, and the "gamble" is a long term INVESTMENT. designed to generate profits, imagine that!  The price WILL GO UP.

As far as Game Pass's value, it's really as simple as this:

If you want to play a lot of games, and/or try them out without commitment:  Game Pass is Great! - Period

If you prefer a small amount of your favorite games, and/or like to mod:  Game Pass SUCKS! - Period

ALL OF YOU:  recognize that different people have different goals (Which is GOOD!), and stop trying to convert the opposite camp!

MOD CRITICIZERS:  Don't knock mods until you get them working right, because when you do: it transforms your game in ways you cannot imagine.  Skyrim (2011!) is still more playable than many modern games BECAUSE OF MODS.  Yes, they require some patience, but that patience is greatly rewarded.

LAST AND NOT LEAST:  ANY internet outage means no gaming with Game Pass.  If you're going to try and tell me your internet NEVER goes down, I will call you "nobody", because nobody's perfect (including the internet).

Thank you.

Game Pass is DRM-locked downloaded games.  It is not streaming.

Game Pass is a great way to play 100+ games.  Yes, if you enjoy one of those 100 enough to want a permanent copy then it makes sense to buy the GOTY edition a couple of years later for $20.  Meanwhile you've saved paying $60 each on many games. 

I played Outer Worlds day of release with Game Pass.  It was fun but I'm not feeling any urge to replay it unlike my 1,000+ hours in Fallout 4 and eleventy playthroughs of FO 1-2-tactics-3-NV.  The $60 I didn't pay paid for months of Game Pass by itself.

[DaveClaw]

In response to post #92057638.

mike9k1 wrote: Nice! Is it possible that this method could work for other games as well? Or is this a feature only for these select few games?

We've been having the same issue with Gamepass users on Dragon Quest XI S: Definitive Edition being unable to install any mods for some time.

Check for the 3-vertical-dots button next to the PLAY button as described in the article.  If the button exists and has an Enable Mods option then you should be able to use at least some mods if not all.

[MrJoseCuervo]

In response to post #91957498. #91958333, #91964623, #91969593, #91974693, #91977193, #91983723, #91988973 are all replies on the same post.

BlasterMasterCaster wrote: This means we won't get more Bethesda and Obsidian games on Steam, isn't it? I fear we will lose the ability to mod games like we used to.

Pickysaurus wrote: I wouldn't jump to conclusions yet :) If you look at 343 (first-party Microsoft dev) and their release of Halo Master Chief Collection, which was on Steam as well as Game Pass. 

BlasterMasterCaster wrote: I hope you're right. I hope that in worst case scenario, at most, they become "timed-exclusive" to GamePass.

Malosar wrote: Microsoft stated in their Press Release after the merger that "some" future Bethesda titles will be exclusive to the Xbox Console and Xbox PC ecosystems.

OmegaDarkKnight wrote: They know how big the modding scene is for TES game; so it's unlikely those will ever be "Exclusive" to Xbox/Gamepass for more than a few months.

RichWebster wrote: @OmegaDarkKnight I agree. It would be a mistake to block out the modding scene in future titles. Bethesda knows that, and my hope is MS will know it to.

I'm not too worried about these Game Pass versions setting a precedent, since all the games are available elsewhere already.

Also worth remembering that a game releasing on Game Pass doesn't mean you can't buy it. I purchased Forza Horizon 4 despite being a Game Pass subscriber because I wanted to own a copy.

Jinxxed0 wrote: I thought they specifically said "the games will be on platforms where game pass exists". Which hopefully is bad wording for "you can buy the game on PC, xbox, and where ever else we can get our gamepass service on.

Making a bunch of single player games exclusive to a subscription service is such a bad idea that I'm sure they realize it. the idea makes the Epic Store exclusives seem less terrible, honestly.

showler wrote: Epic Store has "mod support" listed as an upcoming feature.  If Epic is adding mod support and Microsoft thinks about removing it they'd be idiots.

MS owns Obsidian. Think they bought them out in 2018 or early 2019.

Screw these service based business models. Its cheaper in the long term (for most people) to just buy the game on sale. I would use GamePass to maybe try before I buy but that would be about it.

[showler]

In response to post #91955663. #91980893, #92004163, #92005323, #92007078, #92015173, #92035723, #92041663, #92072548, #92086163 are all replies on the same post.

ff7legend wrote: No pun/disrespect intended towards console users but with Game Pass, one does not actually own the game in question.  If one fails to renew their yearly subscription to Game Pass, one will lose access to all those so-called "free games" they downloaded to their console's HDD/SSD.  The same applies to PS Plus users.  One is far better off buying the actual game vs obtaining it via Game Pass/PS Plus. 

I actually prefer physical media vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  With a physical copy, I actually OWN the game/music/movie in question & can watch/play/listen to it as many times as I wish without having to pay those nagging subscription fees.  Not only that but the overall sound/video quality of physical media is vastly superior vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  I still have my CDs/Blu-rays for this very reason & will not pay a subscription fee just to watch/play a game/movie or listen to my favorite music.  Total RIPOFF.

Another thing to be concerned with are all those DATA OVERAGE CHARGES one is likely to incur depending upon the ISP.  Streaming games/movies/videogames eats up A TON OF DATA.  This is especially true for 4K/8K video streaming.  Many ISPs here Stateside have monthly data caps & charge a King's ransom for going over one's monthly data allotment.  Others will simply throttle one's internet speeds to the point where streaming is impossible depending on the device used.  Either way, physical media is vastly superior & will save one a TON OF $$$$$$ in the long run...

GamingZacharyC wrote: Someone's a misinformed ranter on this forum. First, find an ISP that doesn't have a ridiculous data cap. 1.2 terabytes a month, my data cap, is plenty for me.

Second, renting your game or movie from a service like Netflix, Disney Plus, and Game Pass are really great options for people who only want to watch a movie once or twice. Chances are I'm never going to watch Frozen 2 again. Renting an entire library of games is a great way to go for people who play a game for a short while (think Human Fall Flat) before needing a new one. Game Pass is a great option for games that aren't replayable. Beyond that, streaming quality is getting better and better. If quality is your concern, well, I'm sorry to say that you're not getting a disk of Flora & Ulysses any time soon. There are times when you have to decide: Wallet or impractical peace of mind.

Something that I haven't even mentioned today is that Game Pass DOES NOT MAKE PROFIT as of yet. Microsoft is taking a gamble with it and hoping that people stick around long enough.

Owning a physical disk because of ISP charges is a very uninformed answer that just screams to me "too stubborn to change." Think about it this way: Owning an Xbox disk is really just a container for a license key and some metadata. You still have to download the game over the internet. Also, if game streaming services like GeForce Now didn't exist, there'd be plenty of games I couldn't play with my potato. Instead of paying upfront for a bunch of expensive hardware, I choose to rent it. My household doesn't incur data cap charges, like, ever.

Of course, I don't know why I'm bothering in an attempt to change the mind of someone who argues so naively anyway. I guess this is here for someone else to read and agree with.

Lominsa wrote: .. there are still ISPs that have data caps? I thought that was a thing of the past. At least in my country.

Kalell wrote: Sadly nearly every ISP here in the US has one, and even the few that don't will start throttling your connection if they feel you're using too much.

showler wrote: Game Pass isn't a streaming service to my knowledge.  You download the full game, but with a somewhat restrictive DRM (so you can't just copy it to another folder and keep it).  Unless you are constantly downloading and erasing the games, you won't use much more data than just buying and downloading the game.

SciRika wrote: My ISP added a data cap and tried to advertise it as a bonus "you now have 1TB of data!" when it was "you're now limited to only 1TB of data".

Chaosgod3456 wrote: thats not true ps plus games are free and not like game pass if you dont renew you still own the game

Kel1978 wrote: It's quite rude calling people names. If ff7legend is a ranter then so are you, GamingZacharyC, for ranting about his rant. His situation is different than yours. Maybe he doesn't have a great ISP. There are still places in the US without great connections so perhaps his options are limited. Don't be so judgy.

I prefer physical as well. If I really like a game on Gamepass, I'll buy the physical. I mostly go for collector's edition anyways.

I tried the console versions but modding was way too limiting. A mear 5gb? Ridiculous. I'll stick to PC for Bethesda games.

ThomGonring wrote: Or maybe to read and disagree . . .

#1 try not calling names: "ranter", it does not foster conversation, only reactions.

More specific to your post:

"Game Pass does not make a profit" "Microsoft is taking a gamble"

If you think game pass is going to remain a low monthly fee, think again.  The low initial price is a lure, and the "gamble" is a long term INVESTMENT. designed to generate profits, imagine that!  The price WILL GO UP.

As far as Game Pass's value, it's really as simple as this:

If you want to play a lot of games, and/or try them out without commitment:  Game Pass is Great! - Period

If you prefer a small amount of your favorite games, and/or like to mod:  Game Pass SUCKS! - Period

ALL OF YOU:  recognize that different people have different goals (Which is GOOD!), and stop trying to convert the opposite camp!

MOD CRITICIZERS:  Don't knock mods until you get them working right, because when you do: it transforms your game in ways you cannot imagine.  Skyrim (2011!) is still more playable than many modern games BECAUSE OF MODS.  Yes, they require some patience, but that patience is greatly rewarded.

LAST AND NOT LEAST:  ANY internet outage means no gaming with Game Pass.  If you're going to try and tell me your internet NEVER goes down, I will call you "nobody", because nobody's perfect (including the internet).

Thank you.

DaveClaw wrote: Game Pass is DRM-locked downloaded games.  It is not streaming.

Game Pass is a great way to play 100+ games.  Yes, if you enjoy one of those 100 enough to want a permanent copy then it makes sense to buy the GOTY edition a couple of years later for $20.  Meanwhile you've saved paying $60 each on many games. 

I played Outer Worlds day of release with Game Pass.  It was fun but I'm not feeling any urge to replay it unlike my 1,000+ hours in Fallout 4 and eleventy playthroughs of FO 1-2-tactics-3-NV.  The $60 I didn't pay paid for months of Game Pass by itself.

Not sure why anyone would address "MOD CRITICIZERS" on the Nexusmods message boards.  Not likely to find too many of those around here.

[naitzmic]

In response to post #91955663. #91980893, #92004163, #92005323, #92007078, #92015173, #92035723, #92041663, #92072548, #92086163, #92091233 are all replies on the same post.

ff7legend wrote: No pun/disrespect intended towards console users but with Game Pass, one does not actually own the game in question.  If one fails to renew their yearly subscription to Game Pass, one will lose access to all those so-called "free games" they downloaded to their console's HDD/SSD.  The same applies to PS Plus users.  One is far better off buying the actual game vs obtaining it via Game Pass/PS Plus. 

I actually prefer physical media vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  With a physical copy, I actually OWN the game/music/movie in question & can watch/play/listen to it as many times as I wish without having to pay those nagging subscription fees.  Not only that but the overall sound/video quality of physical media is vastly superior vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  I still have my CDs/Blu-rays for this very reason & will not pay a subscription fee just to watch/play a game/movie or listen to my favorite music.  Total RIPOFF.

Another thing to be concerned with are all those DATA OVERAGE CHARGES one is likely to incur depending upon the ISP.  Streaming games/movies/videogames eats up A TON OF DATA.  This is especially true for 4K/8K video streaming.  Many ISPs here Stateside have monthly data caps & charge a King's ransom for going over one's monthly data allotment.  Others will simply throttle one's internet speeds to the point where streaming is impossible depending on the device used.  Either way, physical media is vastly superior & will save one a TON OF $$$$$$ in the long run...

GamingZacharyC wrote: Someone's a misinformed ranter on this forum. First, find an ISP that doesn't have a ridiculous data cap. 1.2 terabytes a month, my data cap, is plenty for me.

Second, renting your game or movie from a service like Netflix, Disney Plus, and Game Pass are really great options for people who only want to watch a movie once or twice. Chances are I'm never going to watch Frozen 2 again. Renting an entire library of games is a great way to go for people who play a game for a short while (think Human Fall Flat) before needing a new one. Game Pass is a great option for games that aren't replayable. Beyond that, streaming quality is getting better and better. If quality is your concern, well, I'm sorry to say that you're not getting a disk of Flora & Ulysses any time soon. There are times when you have to decide: Wallet or impractical peace of mind.

Something that I haven't even mentioned today is that Game Pass DOES NOT MAKE PROFIT as of yet. Microsoft is taking a gamble with it and hoping that people stick around long enough.

Owning a physical disk because of ISP charges is a very uninformed answer that just screams to me "too stubborn to change." Think about it this way: Owning an Xbox disk is really just a container for a license key and some metadata. You still have to download the game over the internet. Also, if game streaming services like GeForce Now didn't exist, there'd be plenty of games I couldn't play with my potato. Instead of paying upfront for a bunch of expensive hardware, I choose to rent it. My household doesn't incur data cap charges, like, ever.

Of course, I don't know why I'm bothering in an attempt to change the mind of someone who argues so naively anyway. I guess this is here for someone else to read and agree with.

Lominsa wrote: .. there are still ISPs that have data caps? I thought that was a thing of the past. At least in my country.

Kalell wrote: Sadly nearly every ISP here in the US has one, and even the few that don't will start throttling your connection if they feel you're using too much.

showler wrote: Game Pass isn't a streaming service to my knowledge.  You download the full game, but with a somewhat restrictive DRM (so you can't just copy it to another folder and keep it).  Unless you are constantly downloading and erasing the games, you won't use much more data than just buying and downloading the game.

SciRika wrote: My ISP added a data cap and tried to advertise it as a bonus "you now have 1TB of data!" when it was "you're now limited to only 1TB of data".

Chaosgod3456 wrote: thats not true ps plus games are free and not like game pass if you dont renew you still own the game

Kel1978 wrote: It's quite rude calling people names. If ff7legend is a ranter then so are you, GamingZacharyC, for ranting about his rant. His situation is different than yours. Maybe he doesn't have a great ISP. There are still places in the US without great connections so perhaps his options are limited. Don't be so judgy.

I prefer physical as well. If I really like a game on Gamepass, I'll buy the physical. I mostly go for collector's edition anyways.

I tried the console versions but modding was way too limiting. A mear 5gb? Ridiculous. I'll stick to PC for Bethesda games.

ThomGonring wrote: Or maybe to read and disagree . . .

#1 try not calling names: "ranter", it does not foster conversation, only reactions.

More specific to your post:

"Game Pass does not make a profit" "Microsoft is taking a gamble"

If you think game pass is going to remain a low monthly fee, think again.  The low initial price is a lure, and the "gamble" is a long term INVESTMENT. designed to generate profits, imagine that!  The price WILL GO UP.

As far as Game Pass's value, it's really as simple as this:

If you want to play a lot of games, and/or try them out without commitment:  Game Pass is Great! - Period

If you prefer a small amount of your favorite games, and/or like to mod:  Game Pass SUCKS! - Period

ALL OF YOU:  recognize that different people have different goals (Which is GOOD!), and stop trying to convert the opposite camp!

MOD CRITICIZERS:  Don't knock mods until you get them working right, because when you do: it transforms your game in ways you cannot imagine.  Skyrim (2011!) is still more playable than many modern games BECAUSE OF MODS.  Yes, they require some patience, but that patience is greatly rewarded.

LAST AND NOT LEAST:  ANY internet outage means no gaming with Game Pass.  If you're going to try and tell me your internet NEVER goes down, I will call you "nobody", because nobody's perfect (including the internet).

Thank you.

DaveClaw wrote: Game Pass is DRM-locked downloaded games.  It is not streaming.

Game Pass is a great way to play 100+ games.  Yes, if you enjoy one of those 100 enough to want a permanent copy then it makes sense to buy the GOTY edition a couple of years later for $20.  Meanwhile you've saved paying $60 each on many games. 

I played Outer Worlds day of release with Game Pass.  It was fun but I'm not feeling any urge to replay it unlike my 1,000+ hours in Fallout 4 and eleventy playthroughs of FO 1-2-tactics-3-NV.  The $60 I didn't pay paid for months of Game Pass by itself.

showler wrote: Not sure why anyone would address "MOD CRITICIZERS" on the Nexusmods message boards.  Not likely to find too many of those around here.

You're aware that discs just have a digital image on them too, right?
There's literally no difference between a downloaded file and the one on a disc. It's all digital.
Whatever difference you think you're seeing/hearing is either placebo or you're comparing two differently encoded files.

As for the datacap argument; eh, okay. Sucks for you, I guess?
I have fiberoptic gigabit ethernet with no restrictions, and IF it should ever go down at an inoppurtune time, I'll hook up my phone and use the 5G connection on that instead. Two different networks, so the likelyhood of both being down at the same time is quite low.

Sounds like "stone-age woes" to me thb. Edited March 20, 2021 by naitzmic

[juggernex9]

In response to post #91955663. #91980893, #92004163, #92005323, #92007078, #92015173, #92035723, #92041663, #92072548, #92086163, #92091233, #92111838 are all replies on the same post.

ff7legend wrote: No pun/disrespect intended towards console users but with Game Pass, one does not actually own the game in question.  If one fails to renew their yearly subscription to Game Pass, one will lose access to all those so-called "free games" they downloaded to their console's HDD/SSD.  The same applies to PS Plus users.  One is far better off buying the actual game vs obtaining it via Game Pass/PS Plus. 

I actually prefer physical media vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  With a physical copy, I actually OWN the game/music/movie in question & can watch/play/listen to it as many times as I wish without having to pay those nagging subscription fees.  Not only that but the overall sound/video quality of physical media is vastly superior vs digital downloads/recordings anyway.  I still have my CDs/Blu-rays for this very reason & will not pay a subscription fee just to watch/play a game/movie or listen to my favorite music.  Total RIPOFF.

Another thing to be concerned with are all those DATA OVERAGE CHARGES one is likely to incur depending upon the ISP.  Streaming games/movies/videogames eats up A TON OF DATA.  This is especially true for 4K/8K video streaming.  Many ISPs here Stateside have monthly data caps & charge a King's ransom for going over one's monthly data allotment.  Others will simply throttle one's internet speeds to the point where streaming is impossible depending on the device used.  Either way, physical media is vastly superior & will save one a TON OF $$$$$$ in the long run...

GamingZacharyC wrote: Someone's a misinformed ranter on this forum. First, find an ISP that doesn't have a ridiculous data cap. 1.2 terabytes a month, my data cap, is plenty for me.

Second, renting your game or movie from a service like Netflix, Disney Plus, and Game Pass are really great options for people who only want to watch a movie once or twice. Chances are I'm never going to watch Frozen 2 again. Renting an entire library of games is a great way to go for people who play a game for a short while (think Human Fall Flat) before needing a new one. Game Pass is a great option for games that aren't replayable. Beyond that, streaming quality is getting better and better. If quality is your concern, well, I'm sorry to say that you're not getting a disk of Flora & Ulysses any time soon. There are times when you have to decide: Wallet or impractical peace of mind.

Something that I haven't even mentioned today is that Game Pass DOES NOT MAKE PROFIT as of yet. Microsoft is taking a gamble with it and hoping that people stick around long enough.

Owning a physical disk because of ISP charges is a very uninformed answer that just screams to me "too stubborn to change." Think about it this way: Owning an Xbox disk is really just a container for a license key and some metadata. You still have to download the game over the internet. Also, if game streaming services like GeForce Now didn't exist, there'd be plenty of games I couldn't play with my potato. Instead of paying upfront for a bunch of expensive hardware, I choose to rent it. My household doesn't incur data cap charges, like, ever.

Of course, I don't know why I'm bothering in an attempt to change the mind of someone who argues so naively anyway. I guess this is here for someone else to read and agree with.

Lominsa wrote: .. there are still ISPs that have data caps? I thought that was a thing of the past. At least in my country.

Kalell wrote: Sadly nearly every ISP here in the US has one, and even the few that don't will start throttling your connection if they feel you're using too much.

showler wrote: Game Pass isn't a streaming service to my knowledge.  You download the full game, but with a somewhat restrictive DRM (so you can't just copy it to another folder and keep it).  Unless you are constantly downloading and erasing the games, you won't use much more data than just buying and downloading the game.

SciRika wrote: My ISP added a data cap and tried to advertise it as a bonus "you now have 1TB of data!" when it was "you're now limited to only 1TB of data".

Chaosgod3456 wrote: thats not true ps plus games are free and not like game pass if you dont renew you still own the game

Kel1978 wrote: It's quite rude calling people names. If ff7legend is a ranter then so are you, GamingZacharyC, for ranting about his rant. His situation is different than yours. Maybe he doesn't have a great ISP. There are still places in the US without great connections so perhaps his options are limited. Don't be so judgy.

I prefer physical as well. If I really like a game on Gamepass, I'll buy the physical. I mostly go for collector's edition anyways.

I tried the console versions but modding was way too limiting. A mear 5gb? Ridiculous. I'll stick to PC for Bethesda games.

ThomGonring wrote: Or maybe to read and disagree . . .

#1 try not calling names: "ranter", it does not foster conversation, only reactions.

More specific to your post:

"Game Pass does not make a profit" "Microsoft is taking a gamble"

If you think game pass is going to remain a low monthly fee, think again.  The low initial price is a lure, and the "gamble" is a long term INVESTMENT. designed to generate profits, imagine that!  The price WILL GO UP.

As far as Game Pass's value, it's really as simple as this:

If you want to play a lot of games, and/or try them out without commitment:  Game Pass is Great! - Period

If you prefer a small amount of your favorite games, and/or like to mod:  Game Pass SUCKS! - Period

ALL OF YOU:  recognize that different people have different goals (Which is GOOD!), and stop trying to convert the opposite camp!

MOD CRITICIZERS:  Don't knock mods until you get them working right, because when you do: it transforms your game in ways you cannot imagine.  Skyrim (2011!) is still more playable than many modern games BECAUSE OF MODS.  Yes, they require some patience, but that patience is greatly rewarded.

LAST AND NOT LEAST:  ANY internet outage means no gaming with Game Pass.  If you're going to try and tell me your internet NEVER goes down, I will call you "nobody", because nobody's perfect (including the internet).

Thank you.

DaveClaw wrote: Game Pass is DRM-locked downloaded games.  It is not streaming.

Game Pass is a great way to play 100+ games.  Yes, if you enjoy one of those 100 enough to want a permanent copy then it makes sense to buy the GOTY edition a couple of years later for $20.  Meanwhile you've saved paying $60 each on many games. 

I played Outer Worlds day of release with Game Pass.  It was fun but I'm not feeling any urge to replay it unlike my 1,000+ hours in Fallout 4 and eleventy playthroughs of FO 1-2-tactics-3-NV.  The $60 I didn't pay paid for months of Game Pass by itself.

showler wrote: Not sure why anyone would address "MOD CRITICIZERS" on the Nexusmods message boards.  Not likely to find too many of those around here.

naitzmic wrote: You're aware that discs just have a digital image on them too, right?
There's literally no difference between a downloaded file and the one on a disc. It's all digital.
Whatever difference you think you're seeing/hearing is either placebo or you're comparing two differently encoded files.

As for the datacap argument; eh, okay. Sucks for you, I guess?
I have fiberoptic gigabit ethernet with no restrictions, and IF it should ever go down at an inoppurtune time, I'll hook up my phone and use the 5G connection on that instead. Two different networks, so the likelyhood of both being down at the same time is quite low.

Sounds like "stone-age woes" to me thb.

Right, Data-Caps, data caps, what is that? I'd understand if you are referring to telephony. But internet? Not in my country either!

[N3CR0M4NT3]

I create a topic about the subject in Microsoft official forum and in the Feedback Hub of the company, let see if we get some attention for this:

 

Several limitations for modding Bethesda Game pass titles - Microsoft Community

[Saggaris]

In response to post #91967003. #91979463, #91980208, #92042283, #92067333 are all replies on the same post.

TXChannel34 wrote: This is the predictable end of gaming. The general rule for a successful business is to find something that makes money and scale it. This is just Microsoft scaling it. They know that something that is this popular and the bygone conclusion is that there will be enough subscribers that will stay with it, they don't care about the odd ones out. When I bought games from a brick and mortar store for my new alienware laptop was like seeing my kids born, only to find out when I installed them on my computer and then launched it, it said I had to get this "steam" thing to run the game I bought on the computer I paid for. this is nothing more than money grabbing as many have noted. I don't buy a bunch of games, I don't play a bunch of them, there are a few that I have and like, and if there is a game that comes out that looks cool I will buy it, and if I don't like it, I stop playing it. I paid the developers for the privilege of trying it out. If I like it, I buy more of their games, more of their DLCs, etc. I am not going to go on down this road, you all know what I mean. Games like Fortnite and the like, sure, make em subscription stuff. Games like Fallout, Skyrim, etc, they are for refined gamers, they aren't plug and play shoot em ups. If you've ever had a problem with windows, and tried their customer support for a fix, you already know what sort of an invironment we find ourselves in now. Only in the corporate mind would anyone be ok with being turned from a player into a payer and expect the customer to be happy about it.

If they were serious about their plan and keeping us happy, they'd offer us the ability to pay a small one time charge for a game, and subscriptions would be optional with an "in app purchase". I'm still fuming about having had bought a game and have to run it through the steam client. I believe that it causes a lot of the crashes that I experience in the game. I can be playing, the game crashes, won't start back up again unless I go to task manager and force quit the 13 steam apps running in the background. But that's a different thread. I spent the last week downloading a bunch of mods and dlc and working the bugs out, and am still not done to my satisfaction, but it;'s getting there. Heck, on the microsoft platform, all you get is the vanilla game and No DLCs, no popular mods, nada. Just the opportunity to pay Microsoft $50 per month for the privilege of playing the vanilla game using their game client which is required to play at all.

Saggaris wrote: Have a Kudos for your 'rant' TX

I and a good few 'older' others feel the similar about being corporately stuffed.

GamingZacharyC wrote: Hold on a minute there: As far as we know, most Bethesda titles will be on the MS Store, yes, but we don't even know if they'll be on Steam, like Skyrim.  Personally, I'd prefer Bethesda releases their titles on Steam instead of the Bethesda.net Launcher because, honestly, that's too much bloat for my system. Bethesda titles, in my experience, are buggy and unoptimized. I don't need a buggy and unoptimized launcher running in the background, taking nibbles at my potato rig. Steam is very well optimized and well cared for.

As for the taskkilling the Steam processes: That is the game's fault. Steam provides a bunch of APIs for a game developer to make use of. If a game crashes and the game process isn't entirely dead, Steam provides an option to force quit a game if it is being stubborn. Personally, I've never had problems with Steam, only the games published on the platform. If the game crashes a lot, that's a very nieve answer to just blame the retailer service. The launcher is almost never the problem with a retailer; The problem is almost always with the game itself.

To top it all off, Game Pass is an *optional* thing, and it is $15 a month (for Ultimate), not $50. You can outright buy a copy of the game if you wish, or you can rent it and a bunch of other games for $15 a month. Personally, I would go Game Pass, but buy my Bethesda titles on Steam.


If there's one good thing I can see coming out of the MS-Zenimax deal, I do believe that Bethesda games will get better in terms of performance and bugs.

Kel1978 wrote: most Bethesda games are already on steam.  Also you can mod just mine with games from the Microsoft store. You just need to take ownership of the folder.

EnaiSiaion wrote: If the consumer rewards Microsoft for this move, it means game ownership, mods and so on don't really matter in the grand scheme of things.

I used to care about owning games, too. Then I grew up. Adults don't have time to mess around with installing and managing games, they just want to hit a button and play.

This rant feels like a brick and mortar store owner trying to defend their business from online marketplaces. People will go where they want, and if they go somewhere else, you didn't have enough to offer in the first place.

I suspect most people could not care less about moddability, and by the next generation, the only games that can be modded are games that are designed as platforms for custom content, like Mario Maker and Trackmania, and only within the confines of their sandbox. People will like it because it eliminates much of the hassle (Skyrim mods are too clunky and unprofessional for the majority of users). And if their favourite game doesn't support mods, who cares? It will have DLC instead, and once the DLC runs out, play something else!

You seem to be a bit mixed up there, have you noticed that here on Nexus there have been over four and a half billion mod downloads... so where are you getting the idea that most people don't care about moddability?
I personally feel that you are of the camp that doesn't care and are trying to convert the mod anointed.

I understand that priorities change as you age, but don't think for one moment it's about growing up, it's not, it's about choice and what you do with that choice, if you give that up willingly then you will never get it back as long as there is a buck to be made and a head to be patted... "Yes, clever boy, you've helped to make me a greater percentage on my investment, and it only costs the user... have a pat on the head"