Modding Bethesda Games on Game Pass - What we know so far

[BlasterMasterCaster]

This means we won't get more Bethesda and Obsidian games on Steam, isn't it? I fear we will lose the ability to mod games like we used to.

[Pickysaurus]

In response to post #91953468. #91955698, #91957093 are all replies on the same post.

phatbassanchor wrote: If this is the future, going back to game rental like renting VHS Tapes and DVD's and those filthy arcade tokens we railed against and finally got rid of so many decades ago, then I cannot participate.  These subscription services, microtransactions and other forms of cash grabbing greed are just what I feared Microsoft would do.  If these corporate clones have their way we will all be on a pay as you go basis for all gameplay within the next decade or two.  I won't stand for it!  I can and will find something else to do!
I buy my games.  I purchase the license to play a game as much as I want, however and whenever I see fit to play it.  I do not rent!  I do not subscribe to these services or the philosophy of greed that governs them.  
Sony already has my grandson addicted to their pay as you go service for his PS4, now PS5.  Every dollar he gets goes to those subscription cards.  That's what these corporations want, addicts paying them at every turn for every play.  I will not participate!
I want all my games on my PC.  I want my mods.  I want my script extenders to work full time.  I will have these things or I can and will take my ball and go home!  I'll go test games for a hungry up and coming game developer before I ever give in to the tyranny of greed that has attempted to insert itself so fiercely into the gaming marketplace.  We need to make our voices heard!  No more virtual arcade tokens!  Stop the greed!  Say NO to subscriptions and microtransactions!  No more pay as you go gaming!
Adventure on friends, Phat :)
PS:  Thanks for the tutorial.  I've had my Steam set up to avoid all CC updates since it last crashed my game in March of 2018.  If you play on PC, especially if you use script extenders, make sure to protect the many hours you have invested in creating your perfect load order and set your Steam to only update when launched through Steam and continue to use your manual script extender launch or the script extender launch in your mod manager.  Thanks for Vortex as well! :)  It's perfect for power users like me who are always changing mods.  I do testing and provide input for several notable authors, like Nicoroshi.  I'm always trying new mods.  Big thanks to all my favorite authors and conversion specialists who continually add new fun, joy and flexibility to my games :)

ff7legend wrote: Don't forget all those DATA OVERAGE CHARGES one is likely to incur depending on one's ISP either...  In addition, you need to set your Steam to OFFLINE MODE in order to totally avoid those stealth updates.  If you don't, the game will auto-update itself after a system reboot since Steam will check for a client update if not set to Offline Mode which in turn prompts any games in your Steam Library to check for updates & apply said updates without your knowledge/permission...

DaClockworkNinja wrote: You say this and you have a point, but I see it a little different. I do think its a cash grab and shouldn't be the norm but I'm grateful for this. The average game costs $60 to buy. I live in South Africa, that $60 to you ends up costing me R999 (my currency of Rand). The average salary here is R6000 to R10000 per month. 10% of that is tax, half of that is rent in a crappy place, then there's food etc. We cant afford R999 for a game. I see some Ubisoft crap is going for R1999 now. WTF!? Anyway, the Game Pass costs me R50 PM. I can play so many games for that price. It's affordable and I get to play some great games. So yes, its always nicer to buy and own your games, but for some this is the only way we can enjoy our hobby. I am one of the lucky ones who can afford such things, but I'm glad that it exists for some of my friends.

?You say this and you have a point, but I see it a little different. I do think its a cash grab and shouldn't be the norm but I'm grateful for this. The average game costs $60 to buy. I live in South Africa, that $60 to you ends up costing me R999 (my currency of Rand). The average salary here is R6000 to R10000 per month. 10% of that is tax, half of that is rent in a crappy place, then there's food etc. We cant afford R999 for a game. I see some Ubisoft crap is going for R1999 now. WTF!? Anyway, the Game Pass costs me R50 PM. I can play so many games for that price. It's affordable and I get to play some great games. So yes, its always nicer to buy and own your games, but for some this is the only way we can enjoy our hobby. I am one of the lucky ones who can afford such things, but I'm glad that it exists for some of my friends.

That's a really great insight and something I hadn't really thought about in this context, thanks for sharing :)

[Pickysaurus]

In response to post #91957498.

BlasterMasterCaster wrote: This means we won't get more Bethesda and Obsidian games on Steam, isn't it? I fear we will lose the ability to mod games like we used to.

I wouldn't jump to conclusions yet :) If you look at 343 (first-party Microsoft dev) and their release of Halo Master Chief Collection, which was on Steam as well as Game Pass. 

[ModzNerdz]

In response to post #91947883. #91948568, #91948623, #91948758, #91949048, #91949223, #91949548, #91949748, #91950453 are all replies on the same post.

StopGap11 wrote: So how soon is this happening and does that mean that we will now be unable to use mods with the games we paid money for unless we now pony up more money for a service we never asked for. To me this sounds like the bone headed creation club updates that Bethesada would put out that would make out current copy of SKSE useless and make all of out save games useless crap unless we figured out how to undo the "improvements" Bethesda forced down our throats. Of course, if my interpretation is wrong here, I'll be the first, and the happiest to admit it. Of course, if I am right in my interpretation ( really hope that I am not) I'm not blaming anyone at Nexus for this, they didn't have anything to do with this, they're just the messengers here.

irinotecan wrote: This only applies to people who purchase the games in the Xbox/Windows store ("Game Pass").  If you bought the game(s) through Steam, GOG, or physical disc, this does not apply to you, nothing has changed.

Also, you can continue to purchase these games through Steam et al., and avoid the modding headaches associated with an Xbox/Windows store purchase.

Pickysaurus wrote: I'm not really sure what you're upset about here? The games are already out on Game Pass and it does not have any kind of impact on Steam/GOG installs. It's just another option for people who want to play these games. If you're worried about game updates causing problems in your setup there are plenty of guides/tools around to prevent that or back up your current version. 

gyrofalcon wrote: I am confused as well. This "change" from Microsoft, does it force all current owner of Skyrim SE, to also have the game on GamePass?
Or can current version of Skyrim SE, be modded and played the old fashion way, that we do now?
If all futured copies sold, only are available with MS GamePass, (no new sales on Steam, etc) it will be a shot in front of the baug to the community, but I do belive old-fashioned Skyrim (and Oldrim) will survive.
Edit: Answered by others in thread. "My" Skyrim will not change. :) So moral is; Stay away from MS GamePass.

Fyrcynn wrote: Might be a naive question, but does this even impact that many people? I'd think Steam is by far the larger platform with Microsoft's barely being used. Anyone who'd experience the joys Windows Live would stay away from them as a rule.

Saggaris wrote: Well StopGap, I felt a bit like a doom monger myself when I jumped miles ahead with some 'what Ifffff's'

What if Microsoft only allow the future of Bethesda games on Game Pass?
Then..
What if Microsoft close the holes and disallow modding/manipulation of their content?
Then...
What if Microsoft then provide a range of customisable features... for a price?

Oh hell, I'm glad I'm old and senile so's not to have to suffer 'naked' games for too long.

Blackread wrote: Judging by the number of gamepass related questions on r/skyrimmods recently, I'd say this does affect a fair number of people. Obviously the majority of modders will be on Steam still.

StopGap11 wrote: Cool! As I said earlier, I am most happy to have my initial interpretation to be proven wrong. Honestly, I'm totally unfamiliar with console games or the mechanics of modding them on console; I've used PC based games mods forever, so to me it was an entirely new area for me. I have learned that if you don't know it's best to admit it and ask for some help. So thank you all for putting my mind at rest, it's most appreciated. :)
P.S. Sorry for the mini freak out there. I had a gut reaction to seeing all of my favorite games being added to a Microsoft service I was unfamiliar with and leaped before I looked.

showler wrote: Xbox was the console that actually gave people the ability to install half-decent mods.  It seems unlikely they will just up and kill modding on PC after working to implement it on the console.  Crying "Doomsday" is incredibly premature.

For the existing games yes, but what about Fallout 5 or Elder Scrolls 6. Microsoft is already talking some exclusivity here in the future, so there may NOT BE Steam versions/GoG versions, etc...

[Kalell]

Makes me a bit worried about BGS's future games.  If they still go to Steam and other storefronts no worries (hopefully), but if MS locks them to the MS Store there could be a lot of issues we'll have to overcome.  Just have to wait and see.

 

Edit:  Has anyone bought versions of these games from the MS Store?  If so what are the differences between them and the Steam/GOG versions?

Edited March 16, 2021 by Kalell

[ff7legend]

In response to post #91953468. #91955698, #91957093, #91957748 are all replies on the same post.

phatbassanchor wrote: If this is the future, going back to game rental like renting VHS Tapes and DVD's and those filthy arcade tokens we railed against and finally got rid of so many decades ago, then I cannot participate.  These subscription services, microtransactions and other forms of cash grabbing greed are just what I feared Microsoft would do.  If these corporate clones have their way we will all be on a pay as you go basis for all gameplay within the next decade or two.  I won't stand for it!  I can and will find something else to do!
I buy my games.  I purchase the license to play a game as much as I want, however and whenever I see fit to play it.  I do not rent!  I do not subscribe to these services or the philosophy of greed that governs them.  
Sony already has my grandson addicted to their pay as you go service for his PS4, now PS5.  Every dollar he gets goes to those subscription cards.  That's what these corporations want, addicts paying them at every turn for every play.  I will not participate!
I want all my games on my PC.  I want my mods.  I want my script extenders to work full time.  I will have these things or I can and will take my ball and go home!  I'll go test games for a hungry up and coming game developer before I ever give in to the tyranny of greed that has attempted to insert itself so fiercely into the gaming marketplace.  We need to make our voices heard!  No more virtual arcade tokens!  Stop the greed!  Say NO to subscriptions and microtransactions!  No more pay as you go gaming!
Adventure on friends, Phat :)
PS:  Thanks for the tutorial.  I've had my Steam set up to avoid all CC updates since it last crashed my game in March of 2018.  If you play on PC, especially if you use script extenders, make sure to protect the many hours you have invested in creating your perfect load order and set your Steam to only update when launched through Steam and continue to use your manual script extender launch or the script extender launch in your mod manager.  Thanks for Vortex as well! :)  It's perfect for power users like me who are always changing mods.  I do testing and provide input for several notable authors, like Nicoroshi.  I'm always trying new mods.  Big thanks to all my favorite authors and conversion specialists who continually add new fun, joy and flexibility to my games :)

ff7legend wrote: Don't forget all those DATA OVERAGE CHARGES one is likely to incur depending on one's ISP either...  In addition, you need to set your Steam to OFFLINE MODE in order to totally avoid those stealth updates.  If you don't, the game will auto-update itself after a system reboot since Steam will check for a client update if not set to Offline Mode which in turn prompts any games in your Steam Library to check for updates & apply said updates without your knowledge/permission...

DaClockworkNinja wrote: You say this and you have a point, but I see it a little different. I do think its a cash grab and shouldn't be the norm but I'm grateful for this. The average game costs $60 to buy. I live in South Africa, that $60 to you ends up costing me R999 (my currency of Rand). The average salary here is R6000 to R10000 per month. 10% of that is tax, half of that is rent in a crappy place, then there's food etc. We cant afford R999 for a game. I see some Ubisoft crap is going for R1999 now. WTF!? Anyway, the Game Pass costs me R50 PM. I can play so many games for that price. It's affordable and I get to play some great games. So yes, its always nicer to buy and own your games, but for some this is the only way we can enjoy our hobby. I am one of the lucky ones who can afford such things, but I'm glad that it exists for some of my friends.

Pickysaurus wrote:

?You say this and you have a point, but I see it a little different. I do think its a cash grab and shouldn't be the norm but I'm grateful for this. The average game costs $60 to buy. I live in South Africa, that $60 to you ends up costing me R999 (my currency of Rand). The average salary here is R6000 to R10000 per month. 10% of that is tax, half of that is rent in a crappy place, then there's food etc. We cant afford R999 for a game. I see some Ubisoft crap is going for R1999 now. WTF!? Anyway, the Game Pass costs me R50 PM. I can play so many games for that price. It's affordable and I get to play some great games. So yes, its always nicer to buy and own your games, but for some this is the only way we can enjoy our hobby. I am one of the lucky ones who can afford such things, but I'm glad that it exists for some of my friends.

That's a really great insight and something I hadn't really thought about in this context, thanks for sharing :)

That's all well & good but physical media should always be an option regardless.  All these corporate buyouts/mergers serve a singular purpose - the total MONOPOLIZATION of various industries which in turn drives down overall product quality while driving up the price of various goods/services.  There was a reason the late Teddy Roosevelt was adamantly against corporate buyouts/mergers here Stateside folks.  I fear the Micro$oft buyout of Bethesda will water down the quality of future releases, including TES6.  It would not surprise me in the least to see TES6 get locked behind the Micro$oft Store & Bethesda's crappy game launcher...  Take a good look at what happened to WoW after Activision got their GREEDY PAWS on Blizzard.  Blizzard Entertainment hasn't been the same since Activision's buyout/merger.  The same can be said for Bioware after their buyout/merger with EA... Edited March 16, 2021 by ff7legend

[ff7legend]

In response to post #91947883. #91948568, #91948623, #91948758, #91949048, #91949223, #91949548, #91949748, #91950453, #91959448 are all replies on the same post.

StopGap11 wrote: So how soon is this happening and does that mean that we will now be unable to use mods with the games we paid money for unless we now pony up more money for a service we never asked for. To me this sounds like the bone headed creation club updates that Bethesada would put out that would make out current copy of SKSE useless and make all of out save games useless crap unless we figured out how to undo the "improvements" Bethesda forced down our throats. Of course, if my interpretation is wrong here, I'll be the first, and the happiest to admit it. Of course, if I am right in my interpretation ( really hope that I am not) I'm not blaming anyone at Nexus for this, they didn't have anything to do with this, they're just the messengers here.

irinotecan wrote: This only applies to people who purchase the games in the Xbox/Windows store ("Game Pass").  If you bought the game(s) through Steam, GOG, or physical disc, this does not apply to you, nothing has changed.

Also, you can continue to purchase these games through Steam et al., and avoid the modding headaches associated with an Xbox/Windows store purchase.

Pickysaurus wrote: I'm not really sure what you're upset about here? The games are already out on Game Pass and it does not have any kind of impact on Steam/GOG installs. It's just another option for people who want to play these games. If you're worried about game updates causing problems in your setup there are plenty of guides/tools around to prevent that or back up your current version. 

gyrofalcon wrote: I am confused as well. This "change" from Microsoft, does it force all current owner of Skyrim SE, to also have the game on GamePass?
Or can current version of Skyrim SE, be modded and played the old fashion way, that we do now?
If all futured copies sold, only are available with MS GamePass, (no new sales on Steam, etc) it will be a shot in front of the baug to the community, but I do belive old-fashioned Skyrim (and Oldrim) will survive.
Edit: Answered by others in thread. "My" Skyrim will not change. :) So moral is; Stay away from MS GamePass.

Fyrcynn wrote: Might be a naive question, but does this even impact that many people? I'd think Steam is by far the larger platform with Microsoft's barely being used. Anyone who'd experience the joys Windows Live would stay away from them as a rule.

Saggaris wrote: Well StopGap, I felt a bit like a doom monger myself when I jumped miles ahead with some 'what Ifffff's'

What if Microsoft only allow the future of Bethesda games on Game Pass?
Then..
What if Microsoft close the holes and disallow modding/manipulation of their content?
Then...
What if Microsoft then provide a range of customisable features... for a price?

Oh hell, I'm glad I'm old and senile so's not to have to suffer 'naked' games for too long.

Blackread wrote: Judging by the number of gamepass related questions on r/skyrimmods recently, I'd say this does affect a fair number of people. Obviously the majority of modders will be on Steam still.

StopGap11 wrote: Cool! As I said earlier, I am most happy to have my initial interpretation to be proven wrong. Honestly, I'm totally unfamiliar with console games or the mechanics of modding them on console; I've used PC based games mods forever, so to me it was an entirely new area for me. I have learned that if you don't know it's best to admit it and ask for some help. So thank you all for putting my mind at rest, it's most appreciated. :)
P.S. Sorry for the mini freak out there. I had a gut reaction to seeing all of my favorite games being added to a Microsoft service I was unfamiliar with and leaped before I looked.

showler wrote: Xbox was the console that actually gave people the ability to install half-decent mods.  It seems unlikely they will just up and kill modding on PC after working to implement it on the console.  Crying "Doomsday" is incredibly premature.

ralexpdx wrote: For the existing games yes, but what about Fallout 5 or Elder Scrolls 6. Microsoft is already talking some exclusivity here in the future, so there may NOT BE Steam versions/GoG versions, etc...

The day Micro$oft locks Bethesda games behind the Micro$oft Store is the day I cease playing Bethesda games period.  Folks are going to simply have to start speaking with their wallets.  Look at the utter DISASTER that was Windows Live...  Windows Live was so bad it ended up being discontinued & relegated to the dustbins of history.  If it weren't for mods, Bethesda games wouldn't be remotely relevant a year or two after release.  Micro$oft had best tread carefully in this regard...

[showler]

In response to post #91953468. #91955698, #91957093, #91957748, #91962688 are all replies on the same post.

phatbassanchor wrote: If this is the future, going back to game rental like renting VHS Tapes and DVD's and those filthy arcade tokens we railed against and finally got rid of so many decades ago, then I cannot participate.  These subscription services, microtransactions and other forms of cash grabbing greed are just what I feared Microsoft would do.  If these corporate clones have their way we will all be on a pay as you go basis for all gameplay within the next decade or two.  I won't stand for it!  I can and will find something else to do!
I buy my games.  I purchase the license to play a game as much as I want, however and whenever I see fit to play it.  I do not rent!  I do not subscribe to these services or the philosophy of greed that governs them.  
Sony already has my grandson addicted to their pay as you go service for his PS4, now PS5.  Every dollar he gets goes to those subscription cards.  That's what these corporations want, addicts paying them at every turn for every play.  I will not participate!
I want all my games on my PC.  I want my mods.  I want my script extenders to work full time.  I will have these things or I can and will take my ball and go home!  I'll go test games for a hungry up and coming game developer before I ever give in to the tyranny of greed that has attempted to insert itself so fiercely into the gaming marketplace.  We need to make our voices heard!  No more virtual arcade tokens!  Stop the greed!  Say NO to subscriptions and microtransactions!  No more pay as you go gaming!
Adventure on friends, Phat :)
PS:  Thanks for the tutorial.  I've had my Steam set up to avoid all CC updates since it last crashed my game in March of 2018.  If you play on PC, especially if you use script extenders, make sure to protect the many hours you have invested in creating your perfect load order and set your Steam to only update when launched through Steam and continue to use your manual script extender launch or the script extender launch in your mod manager.  Thanks for Vortex as well! :)  It's perfect for power users like me who are always changing mods.  I do testing and provide input for several notable authors, like Nicoroshi.  I'm always trying new mods.  Big thanks to all my favorite authors and conversion specialists who continually add new fun, joy and flexibility to my games :)

ff7legend wrote: Don't forget all those DATA OVERAGE CHARGES one is likely to incur depending on one's ISP either...  In addition, you need to set your Steam to OFFLINE MODE in order to totally avoid those stealth updates.  If you don't, the game will auto-update itself after a system reboot since Steam will check for a client update if not set to Offline Mode which in turn prompts any games in your Steam Library to check for updates & apply said updates without your knowledge/permission...

DaClockworkNinja wrote: You say this and you have a point, but I see it a little different. I do think its a cash grab and shouldn't be the norm but I'm grateful for this. The average game costs $60 to buy. I live in South Africa, that $60 to you ends up costing me R999 (my currency of Rand). The average salary here is R6000 to R10000 per month. 10% of that is tax, half of that is rent in a crappy place, then there's food etc. We cant afford R999 for a game. I see some Ubisoft crap is going for R1999 now. WTF!? Anyway, the Game Pass costs me R50 PM. I can play so many games for that price. It's affordable and I get to play some great games. So yes, its always nicer to buy and own your games, but for some this is the only way we can enjoy our hobby. I am one of the lucky ones who can afford such things, but I'm glad that it exists for some of my friends.

Pickysaurus wrote:

?You say this and you have a point, but I see it a little different. I do think its a cash grab and shouldn't be the norm but I'm grateful for this. The average game costs $60 to buy. I live in South Africa, that $60 to you ends up costing me R999 (my currency of Rand). The average salary here is R6000 to R10000 per month. 10% of that is tax, half of that is rent in a crappy place, then there's food etc. We cant afford R999 for a game. I see some Ubisoft crap is going for R1999 now. WTF!? Anyway, the Game Pass costs me R50 PM. I can play so many games for that price. It's affordable and I get to play some great games. So yes, its always nicer to buy and own your games, but for some this is the only way we can enjoy our hobby. I am one of the lucky ones who can afford such things, but I'm glad that it exists for some of my friends.

That's a really great insight and something I hadn't really thought about in this context, thanks for sharing :)

ff7legend wrote: That's all well & good but physical media should always be an option regardless.  All these corporate buyouts/mergers serve a singular purpose - the total MONOPOLIZATION of various industries which in turn drives down overall product quality while driving up the price of various goods/services.  There was a reason the late Teddy Roosevelt was adamantly against corporate buyouts/mergers here Stateside folks.  I fear the Micro$oft buyout of Bethesda will water down the quality of future releases, including TES6.  It would not surprise me in the least to see TES6 get locked behind the Micro$oft Store & Bethesda's crappy game launcher...  Take a good look at what happened to WoW after Activision got their GREEDY PAWS on Blizzard.  Blizzard Entertainment hasn't been the same since Activision's buyout/merger.  The same can be said for Bioware after their buyout/merger with EA...

Never had Steam set to offline mode, never had Steam install updates on a game I told it not to update.  No idea why some people have this problem.  This is with my system being shut down every night and over months up to a year without updating Fallout 4.

Also, anyone remember Direct2Drive and how angry people who bought Oblivion through that service were when OBSE didn't work?

[ff7legend]

In response to post #91953468. #91955698, #91957093, #91957748, #91962688, #91963348 are all replies on the same post.

phatbassanchor wrote: If this is the future, going back to game rental like renting VHS Tapes and DVD's and those filthy arcade tokens we railed against and finally got rid of so many decades ago, then I cannot participate.  These subscription services, microtransactions and other forms of cash grabbing greed are just what I feared Microsoft would do.  If these corporate clones have their way we will all be on a pay as you go basis for all gameplay within the next decade or two.  I won't stand for it!  I can and will find something else to do!
I buy my games.  I purchase the license to play a game as much as I want, however and whenever I see fit to play it.  I do not rent!  I do not subscribe to these services or the philosophy of greed that governs them.  
Sony already has my grandson addicted to their pay as you go service for his PS4, now PS5.  Every dollar he gets goes to those subscription cards.  That's what these corporations want, addicts paying them at every turn for every play.  I will not participate!
I want all my games on my PC.  I want my mods.  I want my script extenders to work full time.  I will have these things or I can and will take my ball and go home!  I'll go test games for a hungry up and coming game developer before I ever give in to the tyranny of greed that has attempted to insert itself so fiercely into the gaming marketplace.  We need to make our voices heard!  No more virtual arcade tokens!  Stop the greed!  Say NO to subscriptions and microtransactions!  No more pay as you go gaming!
Adventure on friends, Phat :)
PS:  Thanks for the tutorial.  I've had my Steam set up to avoid all CC updates since it last crashed my game in March of 2018.  If you play on PC, especially if you use script extenders, make sure to protect the many hours you have invested in creating your perfect load order and set your Steam to only update when launched through Steam and continue to use your manual script extender launch or the script extender launch in your mod manager.  Thanks for Vortex as well! :)  It's perfect for power users like me who are always changing mods.  I do testing and provide input for several notable authors, like Nicoroshi.  I'm always trying new mods.  Big thanks to all my favorite authors and conversion specialists who continually add new fun, joy and flexibility to my games :)

ff7legend wrote: Don't forget all those DATA OVERAGE CHARGES one is likely to incur depending on one's ISP either...  In addition, you need to set your Steam to OFFLINE MODE in order to totally avoid those stealth updates.  If you don't, the game will auto-update itself after a system reboot since Steam will check for a client update if not set to Offline Mode which in turn prompts any games in your Steam Library to check for updates & apply said updates without your knowledge/permission...

DaClockworkNinja wrote: You say this and you have a point, but I see it a little different. I do think its a cash grab and shouldn't be the norm but I'm grateful for this. The average game costs $60 to buy. I live in South Africa, that $60 to you ends up costing me R999 (my currency of Rand). The average salary here is R6000 to R10000 per month. 10% of that is tax, half of that is rent in a crappy place, then there's food etc. We cant afford R999 for a game. I see some Ubisoft crap is going for R1999 now. WTF!? Anyway, the Game Pass costs me R50 PM. I can play so many games for that price. It's affordable and I get to play some great games. So yes, its always nicer to buy and own your games, but for some this is the only way we can enjoy our hobby. I am one of the lucky ones who can afford such things, but I'm glad that it exists for some of my friends.

Pickysaurus wrote:

?You say this and you have a point, but I see it a little different. I do think its a cash grab and shouldn't be the norm but I'm grateful for this. The average game costs $60 to buy. I live in South Africa, that $60 to you ends up costing me R999 (my currency of Rand). The average salary here is R6000 to R10000 per month. 10% of that is tax, half of that is rent in a crappy place, then there's food etc. We cant afford R999 for a game. I see some Ubisoft crap is going for R1999 now. WTF!? Anyway, the Game Pass costs me R50 PM. I can play so many games for that price. It's affordable and I get to play some great games. So yes, its always nicer to buy and own your games, but for some this is the only way we can enjoy our hobby. I am one of the lucky ones who can afford such things, but I'm glad that it exists for some of my friends.

That's a really great insight and something I hadn't really thought about in this context, thanks for sharing :)

ff7legend wrote: That's all well & good but physical media should always be an option regardless.  All these corporate buyouts/mergers serve a singular purpose - the total MONOPOLIZATION of various industries which in turn drives down overall product quality while driving up the price of various goods/services.  There was a reason the late Teddy Roosevelt was adamantly against corporate buyouts/mergers here Stateside folks.  I fear the Micro$oft buyout of Bethesda will water down the quality of future releases, including TES6.  It would not surprise me in the least to see TES6 get locked behind the Micro$oft Store & Bethesda's crappy game launcher...  Take a good look at what happened to WoW after Activision got their GREEDY PAWS on Blizzard.  Blizzard Entertainment hasn't been the same since Activision's buyout/merger.  The same can be said for Bioware after their buyout/merger with EA...

showler wrote: Never had Steam set to offline mode, never had Steam install updates on a game I told it not to update.  No idea why some people have this problem.  This is with my system being shut down every night and over months up to a year without updating Fallout 4.

Also, anyone remember Direct2Drive and how angry people who bought Oblivion through that service were when OBSE didn't work?

The issue lies with the Steam Client randomly checking for updates after a system reboot if not set to Offline Mode.  If Steam is online, it will randomly check for updates to the Client, install the Steam Client update & prompt all games in the Steam Library to check for updates & apply said updates regardless of the setting applied in Steam.  This issue began after Valve thought it a "genius" move to remove the Never Keep This Game Up to Date option from the game Properties menu via a Steam Client update several years back.  I've had it happen to me on several occasions which is why Steam is always locked in Offline Mode so a stealth game update doesn't break my script extenders.

[polraudio]

Why not just by default include SKSE if they get permission? Same for Fallout, Ect.