Arthmoor

In response to post #72374098. I use that language because it's an accurate description of the scenario. A proper mod manager allows for manually shifting a mod from one place in a load order to another - WITHOUT the additional steps necessary to enact a rule from a 3rd party program like LOOT. MO/MO2, Wrye Bash, NMM (old and new), OBMM, and an entire slew of other lesser known stuff I can't think of right now all allow this for Bethesda games. Vortex does not. It's really just that simple.

In response to post #72306943. #72307193, #72316718, #72316773, #72318533, #72320893, #72324058, #72328358, #72331288, #72342908, #72343558, #72344193, #72347828, #72350233, #72355698, #72356553, #72357523 are all replies on the same post. I think this is paranoid at best. Vortex also isn't a miracle waiting to happen for Starfield or TES VI. Anything Vortex can do, actual mod managers can do better, and anything THOSE can do can be replicated through entirely manual means if necessary. None of these tools are going to stop any publisher from doing anything, but Bethesda is also not the one you should be worried about. As far as me being free to adopt Vortex and bend it to my will, I see no reason why I should ever want to do that. It lacks a fundamental feature that the developers have said they will never incorporate. That's fine. Wrye Bash is a superior program anyway and has all of the features for proper mod management that I need, and that many others need.

In response to post #72351978. I'm not replying from the forum side just to quote a block of text, sorry. The form flow for this entire discussion reads worse than a plane crash.

In response to post #72306943. #72307193, #72316718, #72316773, #72318533, #72320893, #72324058, #72328358, #72331288, #72342908, #72343558, #72344193, #72347828, #72350233, #72355698 are all replies on the same post. Maybe because literally everyone supporting it is making themselves sound like an infomercial when defending it. "The mod manager of the future is here now" and such. You sound like snake oil salesmen and my experience with the program doesn't change that impression one bit. Also because people like Tannin make utterly false statements like this: At no point did any such thing ever happen, but he'll swear up and down it did and that's just wrong.

Your problem was not caused by UFO4P. It was caused by ignoring the game developer's own warnings about disabling mods on an active save. It has nothing to do with us or any other mod author. You did something the game itself is simply not equipped to handle. Period. So no, it won't go in a sticky on our thread because frankly after 4 years in FO4 (and 3 more prior to this on Skyrim) people should simply know not to do this. And for the record, save editors are not safe. The information being acted on has never been fully decoded so it's going to be snipping stuff haphazardly out of your save with no idea whether or not the undecoded data is referencing it. That's basically gonna fubar things even more than you already had.

In response to post #72306943. #72307193, #72316718, #72316773, #72318533, #72320893, #72324058, #72328358, #72331288, #72342908, #72343558, #72344193 are all replies on the same post. Accusations like this are why it's futile to attempt to have a rational discussion with anyone on the Vortex team about these matters. I have not misquoted you, or anyone else in this, I've simply restated what you've all been drumbeating since this whole shitshow began. You have said flat out on several occasions, directly to me and others, that manual load ordering is not going to be included. You know as well as I do that I did not agree with this direction but accepted that it's your shitshow to manage, and left it at that. You seem to now be playing along with the revisionist game that's being played here, so have at it, you're not going to change the minds of those of us who know what's actually going on here. You certainly aren't going to get us to start recommending a flathead screwdriver for games that are using phillips head screws. The only misinformation campaign being waged here is the one being conducted by the dev team and Nexus staff.

In response to post #72331048. They have actually. Either they get ignored or they get one of these ridiculous speeches like you just spit out that has no meaning and is full of triple-speak and redefinition of standard terms. So they don't post here anymore. They go elsewhere and get told to just use a real mod manager and then they move on, which is going to happen more, not less, as folks realize Vortex doesn't fit its square self down the round hole.

In response to post #72306943. #72307193, #72316718, #72316773, #72318533, #72320893, #72324058, #72328358, #72331288 are all replies on the same post. I am aware of the dancing and weaving that caused it to go on for 90 pages as I'm pretty sure it's one of the threads I participated in at the time where at many points during that catastrophe of a thread we tried to explain the position and why it's valid only to be told "no, we're setting out to redefine the standards" and it was basically left at that. Sure, your opinion is your opinion, but that doesn't make it a correct one. Manual load ordering as defined by the community DOES NOT EXIST in Vortext and never did, nor does Tannin say it ever will. Tannin and I have our disagreements on this, but at least he's honest and his opinion as a result can be respected. His program, his show, so if he just doesn't want to do it, so be it. That doesn't entitle anyone to change the definitions in an attempt to silence the argument.

In response to post #72145658. #72145963 is also a reply to the same post. He absolutely knows what he's talking about and his opinion is shared by too many people to count at this point.

In response to post #72306943. #72307193, #72316718, #72316773, #72318533, #72320893, #72324058 are all replies on the same post. Well then they appear to be giving out information that's not consistent depending on who is asking the questions. Or maybe HOW the question is asked. Any time I've ever seen them comment on the issue, they will flat out tell you LOOT and anything based on LOOT is not the END of load order, it is the beginning, and they've further said that nothing Vortex is doing fundamentally changes that. So you can claim that "manual sorting" is a thing, but your own developer has crusaded against even considering this as an option for more than a year, which is why I commented on it back then to begin with. His publicly stated position on the matter is still there in your own forums for all to see. To sum it up though it amounts to "never going to happen". Just... stop already. You sound like an infomercial when you do this. Especially when the statement directly contradicts what Tannin himself has said repeatedly. This isn't a religious agenda or some kind of dogma, it's the words from YOUR OWN DEVELOPER who said point blank that manual load ordering will never be a feature in Vortex. If he's changed his mind on this then great, problem solved and we can all move on with life and be happy. Something tells me this isn't the case though since you guys are insisting on dancing around the issue instead of just answering it with clear, concise language. So no, it is not those of us who know what the terminology has meant for the last 15 years co-opting anything. It's you guys who are trying to redefine the term as though you invented the concept. Setting up a rule to teach the AI in Vortex how to parse your intent is NOT the definition of a manual process. Every user of MO2, Wrye Bash, NMM, OBMM, and every single other less well known mod manager knows what the term "manual load order" means and it does not fit what Vortex is trying to change that to mean. Plenty of people have tried to point this out and have gone so far as to wonder WTF Tannin was thinking when he explicitly said it would never be made a feature. This is why you have thousands of people who do not consider Vortex to be an actual mod manager but instead a wrapper for LOOT services.

Well at least I'll be satisfied in knowing you're not gonna continue with this tirade in any of my mod threads. So have fun insisting on always being right. Don't get used to it though. They clearly don't teach you kids when it isn't worth continuing a fight you started.

Maybe you should just take the hint, accept the response you're given, and move on yourself, "kid". So again: WHATEVER YOU SAY DUDE.

As I said, whatever you say dude.

In response to post #72306943. #72307193 is also a reply to the same post. Why not just go ask them? It's not like they hide from their opinions on these matters. Especially when they've been asked about it, ans answered it, on their own Discord server for all to see. They don't even claim LOOT itself is sufficient for managing things entirely, even within the context of setting up rules. They fully acknowledge the place manual load order sorting has in the community and they've never once tried to claim LOOT or anything relying on it can make that a thing of the past.

Sounds more or less like what this mod is doing? https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/13562

Ok, whatever you say guy. Just call the only working advice wrong if you must but maybe don't ask people for help if you're unwilling to accept true answers to your problems when they're given.

The Obsidian of 2010 wasn't worth the slavering worship I see people pile on them either. You think Fallout 4 was bad? Good lord, what kind of standards do you have when this is even being said in a serious manner? NV was terrible. Open world yet full of artificial barriers and railroaded quests everywhere. It took a minimum of 10 mods just to undo all of that and then the story still sucks anyway. Plus no continued play after the end of the game? No, just no. What is it with people and putting NV onto such a pedestal it doesn't deserve?

Bethesda is making DLCs though. What you appear to want from them is what used to be called expansion packs. Not their fault that the CC is the actual definition of what came to be known as DLC - after all, they invented it. Other companies simply perverted the term DLC and stopped calling big ones like Nuka-World and Far Harbor expansion packs - which is what those really are.

Wrong. The CK EULA even specifically says copyright belongs to the mod author. No it's not. Only entitlement syndrome would cause someone to claim this. Nope. Copyright lasts 95 years beyond the death of the author. So we'll all be dead and gone by the time this mod you're so worked up over actually falls into the Public Domain. If this angers you, seek redress in Congress. That's what they exist for. I just hope you have the billions that will be needed to fight off Disney's lobbyists. No. Nexus needs to follow the law, which is what they're currently doing. Also the Creation Club has absolutely nothing to do with any of this, but obviously you couldn't resist the chance to take a poke at it anyway for no good reason.

If what you're saying is true and other people are merely posting their own implementations of the same idea without copying the original author's code, Nexus is in the wrong unless that author can also prove he patented the idea. If those people ARE simply taking his code and recompiling it for SSE, they're 100% in the wrong and deserve whatever came to them.

Yes, but I explained this already. The underscores have screwed the whole thing up. I've seen character lists that are quite long but none of them had underscores messing up the menus.

Don't use underscores in your save game names. The engine uses those to distinguish characters on the loading menu and any use of them in any other way just messes up the display and makes it harder (and sometimes impossible) to find the save you want.

It's no coincidence that most of those older mods were also stolen mods that have gone undetected for ages. They get to them when people find them and report them. Just like here at Nexus. I'm sure if you looked deeply enough you'd find just as many stolen mods uploaded here that haven't been found.

Stopped reading right here. This statement alone tells me all I need to know about what you have and haven't actually done. At this point I don't think you've actually done this and are just trying to make it look like you have because the results you report do not jive with what the rest of us KNOW to be the case with trying to backport a mod. You are plainly advocating for people to break their games with horseshit procedures that don't work. Period. I don't care what you want out of this but you are WRONG and you're blatantly lying to people for reasons unknown. Internet points aren't worth this so I don't know why you're pursuing them so intently.

Yes. I have attempted this very technique (it doesn't work - protest that all you like it doesn't make your claim at all true). I've also attempted other means of trying to trick the game and CK into going along with it. Every attempt has ended with the game either crashing outright or with corruption in the save following shortly after introducing it. The game basically behaves as though you took the mod and shredded it with a copy of Snip. As for who I am to judge, like it or not, I'm a competent modder with plenty of cred under my belt to be able to assess the truth or falseness of a claim. Yours is patently false, and Reddit is overflowing with plenty of other people who are just as determined to spread false information. So it's no wonder the place where this happens most often is also filled with the most "I don't know WTF is wrong with my game" posts. What's wrong with your game is you're listening to people who are CLUELESS about how to do things correctly and just assume that every single post there is verified as true and working. That's far from the case. And no, I do not accept as fact what I know to be fiction. You can claim all you want that it works. My own experience and that of others I know to be competent modders says it's a lie. That's the fact here.