Trying to understand

[showler]

Here is a dumb question. Say a user starts with a basic "best of SSE" type collection. Then they add individual mods to it. Is it still a "collection" at that point?

Philosophically or practically? I'm thinking that once you install a Collection through Vortex it might always consider it a Collection until you uninstall the Collection. That seems like a practical necessity to make sure the warnings and such that direct the user to seek help from the curator rather than the individual mod authors remain in place. It will complicate seeking help for the added mods, though.

[Zanderat]

 

Here is a dumb question. Say a user starts with a basic "best of SSE" type collection. Then they add individual mods to it. Is it still a "collection" at that point?

Philosophically or practically? I'm thinking that once you install a Collection through Vortex it might always consider it a Collection until you uninstall the Collection. That seems like a practical necessity to make sure the warnings and such that direct the user to seek help from the curator rather than the individual mod authors remain in place. It will complicate seeking help for the added mods, though.

 

Yup. Because I would think the collection curator is responsible for the collection support. But who supports it when a user breaks it? And the individual mod author(s) would be in their rights to refuse to support any of that. The individual mod download model that we use today has no such issue.

[Pasquale1223]

If the Nexus Corporation is going to pay mod developers, as W4 or 1099 employees, then,

of course the copyrights absolutely belong to the employer.

I think that depends on the circumstances and terms of the employment, and whether the new thing was created as part of their work assignment.

 

However, if and that John Doe cannot

remove it from a web host, does that mod become Public Domain from then on? Will mod

developers be required to cede any claims to copyright over to the Nexus Corporation?

No. Simply publishing something does not cede copyright to the publisher, only license to distribute.

 

Examples: Publishing an article w/ photographs online does not cede copyright to the article or photos. When BSG or EA license Steam to distribute their titles, they are not ceding their copyright to Steam.

 

If John Doe paints a painting and (with permission) hangs it on a wall in a museum. Time passes

and he takes it down and walks out the door. If the museum curator padlocks it behind glass,

and refuses to let the painter have it back, isn't this unethical or worse? Or, painter would be

told, before he walks in the door, that his painting is no longer his, even if the museum curator

gives him no consideration in return. Then, it's ethical, because the painter will know beforehand

that he's giving up all rights to his painting.

A painter can sell an individual painting without necessarily giving up all rights to the image. Depending on the arrangement, the painter might still be able to print t-shirts, postcards, or lithographs of the image.

 

DISCLAIMER: I am not an attorney, and this is not to be construed as legal advice.

[showler]

 

 

Here is a dumb question. Say a user starts with a basic "best of SSE" type collection. Then they add individual mods to it. Is it still a "collection" at that point?

Philosophically or practically? I'm thinking that once you install a Collection through Vortex it might always consider it a Collection until you uninstall the Collection. That seems like a practical necessity to make sure the warnings and such that direct the user to seek help from the curator rather than the individual mod authors remain in place. It will complicate seeking help for the added mods, though.

 

Yup. Because I would think the collection curator is responsible for the collection support. But who supports it when a user breaks it? And the individual mod author(s) would be in their rights to refuse to support any of that. The individual mod download model that we use today has no such issue.

It does have a somewhat similar issue where you go to the mod author for support and they simply tell you that "it's not my mod causing that" or "must be a mod interaction" and you're just told to go into xEdit and start checking things or disable mods until you find the problem.

 

As soon as any mod user installs two different mods they are in danger of having interactions that cause problems with one or the other of them. If a user starts adding onto a Collection then they face the same problems and will have to try the same solutions.

[Zanderat]

 

 

 

Here is a dumb question. Say a user starts with a basic "best of SSE" type collection. Then they add individual mods to it. Is it still a "collection" at that point?

Philosophically or practically? I'm thinking that once you install a Collection through Vortex it might always consider it a Collection until you uninstall the Collection. That seems like a practical necessity to make sure the warnings and such that direct the user to seek help from the curator rather than the individual mod authors remain in place. It will complicate seeking help for the added mods, though.

 

Yup. Because I would think the collection curator is responsible for the collection support. But who supports it when a user breaks it? And the individual mod author(s) would be in their rights to refuse to support any of that. The individual mod download model that we use today has no such issue.

It does have a somewhat similar issue where you go to the mod author for support and they simply tell you that "it's not my mod causing that" or "must be a mod interaction" and you're just told to go into xEdit and start checking things or disable mods until you find the problem.

 

As soon as any mod user installs two different mods they are in danger of having interactions that cause problems with one or the other of them. If a user starts adding onto a Collection then they face the same problems and will have to try the same solutions.

 

That does happen occasionally. I just see collections as a support nightmare.

[showler]

I'm less pessimistic, I just think a lot of support will come from other users rather than from authors.

[HeyYou]

I would expect users that install a collection, and then go on to install another mod, ANY other mod.... and it ends up breaking their game, it is immediately going to be the author of the last mod installed getting the third degree. Of course, this isn't going to be much different than how things are now. :D

[Raptilize]

 

 

 

 

Here is a dumb question. Say a user starts with a basic "best of SSE" type collection. Then they add individual mods to it. Is it still a "collection" at that point?

Philosophically or practically? I'm thinking that once you install a Collection through Vortex it might always consider it a Collection until you uninstall the Collection. That seems like a practical necessity to make sure the warnings and such that direct the user to seek help from the curator rather than the individual mod authors remain in place. It will complicate seeking help for the added mods, though.

 

Yup. Because I would think the collection curator is responsible for the collection support. But who supports it when a user breaks it? And the individual mod author(s) would be in their rights to refuse to support any of that. The individual mod download model that we use today has no such issue.

It does have a somewhat similar issue where you go to the mod author for support and they simply tell you that "it's not my mod causing that" or "must be a mod interaction" and you're just told to go into xEdit and start checking things or disable mods until you find the problem.

 

As soon as any mod user installs two different mods they are in danger of having interactions that cause problems with one or the other of them. If a user starts adding onto a Collection then they face the same problems and will have to try the same solutions.

 

That does happen occasionally. I just see collections as a support nightmare.

 

For a collection author maybe....for mod authors, no. Not unless they like self inflicted pain. Their mods either work on their own or they don't. There really is no requirement or expectation for mod authors to support collections. I would say it might be wise to put a blurb on top of your mod page that says "It is not possible to support my mods interaction in collections without a blizzard sized development team" etc.

[HeyYou]

The idea is, the collection author will put together a mod list that plays nice together, including conflict resolution 'stuff'. Trouble is, just because it plays nice on one machine, does NOT imply it will play nice on EVERY machine. Also no different than the situation we have now. For the most part, a single mod that works for one player, should work for every player. (assuming they have the hardware to run it.) It's when you have more than one mod that things start getting interesting.

[Pasquale1223]

That does happen occasionally. I just see collections as a support nightmare.

As do I - especially if they're marketed as one-click modding for those who aren't interested in learning anything about modding.

 

I vaguely remember modding FO4 at a time well past release, when most actual fix/patches were done - yet every time the Creator's Club store updated, Steam would automatically update my game whenever I tried to launch it - which made the version out of sync with F4SE, so I needed to wait for an update from that team before I could play again. (Actually, there was a workaround, a way to get the previous version of the game using a direct link.) I really felt for the F4SE team while that was going on.

 

I can't imagine the gymnastics that will be required of collection curators during times when everything's changing...