Trying to understand

[xrayy]

 

 

Assuming it works in the way I believe it does, it would technically literally be a list, and when I say literal ... I do mean literal.

From the limited information we have so far we know of at least three components to a Collection:

 

1. A list of specific files for the Mod Manager to download.

 

2. Instructions on how to install those files (Order to install, FOMOD options to choose, or whatever other means of controlling the installation are needed)

 

3. Instructions regarding conflict resolution rules to implement (what mods need to override other mods, what specific files in the mod need to override other mods contrary to the overall mod override rules, files that need to be hidden if needed).

 

So far, that's all we know, I think. It could go much deeper than that if they include the ability to automate the use of tools like Merge Plugins, Wrye Bash, Nemesis, DyndoLOD, etc. But they've said they will not go deeper into the functioning of Collections until their own testing is done and the beta period approaches.

 

There's been a lot taken out of context, a lot said that is taken as an absolute rule when it is actually intended to be a guideline. The confusion is deep regarding all this. Personally I put most of the blame on Nexus for screwing up the announcement and some of the blame on the people who went full paranoia immediately.

 

As for file deletion restrictions. They aren't needed to make Collections work, they're needed to make Collections keep working.

 

you BOTH do not try to understand. as for file restrictions you are just guessing (in best case) and you are probably wrong. file deletion restrictions for mod authors are not needed in a proper system even if it includes mod collections. maybe the restrictions are 'wanted' by nexusmods to have a more confortable time to reach commercial or whatever goals even earlier. i do not know. the only thing i know is that they destroyed the trust of mod authors built over a decade.

 

i wrote my 2 cents to the technical background regarding this file deletion issue here or in the file deletion thread and arthmoor explained it in one of his last posts. you will not find any serious db-admin or db-developer who claims such nonsense. i'm curious what is so special about the superspecial nexusmods-solution (?) that someone claims that a mod collection system can not exist without the restrictions that nexusmods (including you) describe as inevitable or that this is the only system which make collections keep working as you claim.

 

it is a mess that people who do not even try to understand or with proven inability to understand are most probably unable to leave a thread they mess up. this thread is a very good show case.

[MarchinBunny]

 

Then you have nothing of value to contribute to this thread other than obviously shilling for Nexus and 1ae0bfb8 is 100% correct about your intentions here.

 

How is what I am doing any different than what you are doing. The only difference is we are on opposite sides. As for 32bit hex person, ... all they ever say to anyone who disagrees is that they are trolling. Disagreeing isn't trolling, it's just disagreeing. You know ... like humans tend to do when they have different views on things.

 

 

In even making this comparison you demonstrate zero knowledge of the subject. Wordpress plugins are not at all the same thing as a file uploaded to a site.

 

 

"my knowledge outside of simple maintenance of it is pretty thin."

Ya, as if I didn't point that out myself ... But I guess I shouldn't put it above you to ignore context and crap.

 

 

 

As for me, I seek to understand why Nexus is employing draconian measures

Not from what I have seen over the years of being here. The very fact you call them "draconian" is pretty much evidence enough there is nothing that could ever be said that would convince you these measures are anything but bad.

 

 

 

So far they have given nothing to show they're running it competently.

It's not like you have shown anything either that they are running it incompetently. It's more or less just an assumption made by you based on conjecture.

 

Edit: Also I would like to point out, I believe mod authors should be able to delete their mods, but only as a whole project. I think the system could work fine that way.

[Gruffydd]

Lists or modpacks? I think both are right.

It seems to me it functions as a list for free users and a modpack for paid, as it gives free users a list of mods to install and paid just press a button and get them all.

[MarchinBunny]

 

you BOTH do not try to understand. as for file restrictions you are just guessing (in best case) and you are probably wrong. file deletion restrictions for mod authors are not needed in a proper system even if it includes mod collections. maybe the restrictions are 'wanted' by nexusmods to have a more confortable time to reach commercial or whatever goals even earlier. i do not know. the only thing i know is that they destroyed the trust of mod authors built over a decade.

 

 

i wrote my 2 cents to the technical background regarding this here or in the file deletion thread and arthmoor explained it in one of his last posts. you will not find any serious db-admin or db-developer who claims such nonsense. i'm curious what is so special about the superspecial nexusmods-solution (?) that someone claims that a mod collection system can not exist without the restrictions that nexusmods (including you) describe as inevitable or that this is the only system which make collections keep working as you claim.

 

Well, as I said, I don't know much in terms of databases. But I am not just going to take the word from someone I already know is biased. And you honestly, can't blame me for that. As I told Arthmoor, I would need to get more view points on this matter from others who have no association or eggs in the basket here. In other words, an unbiased view.

 

But in terms of collections, I can understand why Nexus wants to go the route they are going. And I am sure you and Arthmoor understand it as well. You just don't agree with the importance of it, and believe all problems should be dealt with by the curator of the collection instead. But in my personal opinion, taking care of a collection and constantly updating it anytime a mod author removes a file ... is asking too much. The reason modpacks work as well as they do for curseforge is because older files are typically still there. If those files just constantly were deleted .. it would make curating become nearly impossible, at least to do in a way that anyone is going to want to participate in.

 

Imagine a collection of hundreds of mods for a newer game where mods can be updated almost nearly everyday. Trying to keep up with that as a curator would be a full time job. They would need to add the new versions of all the mods since the old files no longer exists, and then they would have to test the pack again to make sure none of the new updates in these mods introduced bugs. And if it does ... they can't do anything about it till the mod author updates it with the fix. In that time the collection would be useless.

 

It's not that it can't work with mod authors deleting mods like this, it can. Just very poorly. A single mod author could bring many collections down, all on their own even out of spite if they chose too ... which btw ... we already know mod authors are not necessarily above doing. That precedent has already been set by quite a few authors.

 

Now as I said, I personally think simply disallowing the deletion of individual files would work. I think authors being able to delete their entire project along with all the files, should be allowed. The reason I think so, is because there is a lot more at stake deleting the entire project, such as losing endorsements, download count, comments, etc. So it's less likely a mod author would do that. But as for archiving, I think it's 100% needed if we are talking about a system that actually functions well enough to be usable.

[HadToRegister]

The very fact you call them "draconian" is pretty much evidence enough there is nothing that could ever be said that would convince you these measures are anything but bad.

 

 

"Draconian" I.E. Banning people for asking too many questions about, locking threads with certain words in their title, locking threads that discuss certain things, giving vague answers etc

Stomping any threads that aren't 'doubleplusgood'

[showler]

 

it is a mess that people who do not even try to understand or with proven inability to understand are most probably unable to leave a thread they mess up. this thread is a very good show case.

 

You keep talking about database capabilities.

 

What part of "Collections that work today are meant to still work two years from now and can't do that if files are deleted" do you not understand? It's not a technical issue, it's a function issue. And Nexus has made it clear that if you can't accept that then this isn't the site for you anymore.

[MarchinBunny]

 

 

"Draconian" I.E. Banning people for asking too many questions about, locking threads with certain words in their title, locking threads that discuss certain things, giving vague answers etc

Stomping any threads that aren't 'doubleplusgood'

 

I don't think I have seen anyone get banned for asking to many questions on this matter. And the only threads I have seen locked are more or less duplicates, or an answer has already been given. I don't know ... do you have any examples of what you mean exactly?

[Guest deleted34304850]

gaslighting 101 right there. got to say - at least you're consistent, so well done for that, i guess?

[Guest deleted34304850]

u keep talking about database capabilities.

It's not a technical issue, it's a function issue.

what does "its a function issue" mean in that context?

do you even read the drivel you write?

[HadToRegister]

 

I don't think I have seen anyone get banned for asking to many questions on this matter.

 

 

 

I have