Mod authors should have made a master list of locations

[HadToRegister]

 

But if you listed what cells your mod uses, then what was done under that using RefIDs it would be very easy for another modder to come along and find the handful of mods editing the cell they want to adjust, and see what they can do without causing conflicts. In fact you don't even need the cell. Say I wanted to edit a door in a building, and I have a RefID for what I'm going to adjust. I could just search the list for that RefID. I find your mod already uses it. I consider it likely people will want to use my mod and yours snice they're both similar sorts of quest mods for example. I consider increasing my audience by using another building.

 

 

 

IF YOU HAD READ THE DESCRIPTION PAGES, you wouldn't have installed a number of mods that have conflicts with the same door, building, or area.

 

That's on YOU, not the modders.

 

You don't want to accept ANY responsibility whatsoever

 

I think it's time to just put you on ignore, and let you yell into a vacuum at this point.

Nothing is going to convince you to take some initiative and actually READ THE DESCRIPTION PAGE AND STICKIES.

 

Instead, you want modders to make a big long list of nonsense, so people won't read that either.

[RoNin1971]

 

 

 

 

 

I asked why it wasn't done from the start. It would have been easy from the start.

 

So you're saying at the start nobody ever realised there would be thousands of mods by now? Lack of foresight there.

 

There must be an easy way of referring to a building. Start with the cell/area it's in.

 

 

You have been told BY MODDERS that the Game uses RefIDs, that's how items are identified in the game.

YES buildings, doorways etc are in a CELL, but the individual items are referenced by REF IDs, hence the name "REF ID"

 

IT WASN'T NEEDED FROM THE START because there weren't a ton of mods that conflicted.

Now they do, and they way to deal with that is to READ THE DESCRIPTION PAGES AND TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHICH MODS YOU USE.

 

Simple as that.

 

Again, you keep insisting "There must be an easy way", yet the only effort I see you putting in, is to keep posting here instead of looking up, and posting actual solutions.

 

IT IS NOT EASY.

 

You start with the CELL, then you need to know if a specific door conflicts with a specific door in another mod, so now you need to dig deeper and do the REF ID of the Door.

 

What you're asking for is really ridiculous, because the average user not only WON'T use this fabled list, but most won't even know how to.

 

Just read the description page andthe Mod Author can tell you if it conflicts

 

It would require a massive searchable online database.

And then you'd need to enter hundreds of searches for each item in the mod.

 

You have no idea how impractical your suggestion is.

 

 

 

But if you listed what cells your mod uses, then what was done under that using RefIDs it would be very easy for another modder to come along and find the handful of mods editing the cell they want to adjust, and see what they can do without causing conflicts. In fact you don't even need the cell. Say I wanted to edit a door in a building, and I have a RefID for what I'm going to adjust. I could just search the list for that RefID. I find your mod already uses it. I consider it likely people will want to use my mod and yours snice they're both similar sorts of quest mods for example. I consider increasing my audience by using another building.

 

It wasn't needed AT the start, but it was needed FROM the start. It's like building a 4 lane freeway knowing that in 5 years you'll need 8 lanes.

 

LOOT is exactly what your looking for, it even sorts .esps in an efficent manner. It's far from perfect of course

 

I have LOOT, that doesn't solve conflicts of doors. It just puts things in the most sensible order to load.

 

Listen, I get your idea. Really. It would be nice to have.

But you seem to be missing the point. (well, multiple, actually)

 

It isn't going to be a 'list', but a freakin database you need to search through and, or add your own, correct and detailed info. Incorrectly assuming all modders actually know what they are doing. To most its more like playing a game, searching the boundaries of whats possible and what not and how it all works or needs to be done. This database will never be complete and up to date. Therefore useless to begin with.

Besides, somebody will need to create, maintain this database and/or host a website for it (and get all modders to participate). Will you?

 

"Modders" are not some kind of superhumans who know all, can all agree, cooperate, read manuals and read forums full of posts on how to use or create mods. Heck, most are as lazy as 'mod users'. Pretty much all are stretching the limits of what they can do and understand.

 

Even if you did get past the technicalities, you will never get everybody to participate. Only a percentage. The ones who already fully document everything on their mod pages.

 

It just won't work. It's like calling out: "if everybody would just be nice to each other, there would be no war". Great idea, no? but its never gonna happen.

 

BUT, there is this one person who can, at least for himself, make that change, by being nice to everybody reading up on the mods installed, learn to deal with or avoid conflicts, or to be aware of them arising. YOU.

Document your findings so you can build your own perfectly working game using all this content other people spend their precious time on creating, asking nothing in return.

 

You could even share that list/database online and ask others to participate ... it will perhaps work better then telling others what you think they should have done (?)

If you have some programming skills, you could actually make a real contribution by automating the process of tracking conflicts across mods.

 

...or you could just wait for LOOT to get better at it (or, the people working hard to bring you that tool)

[Guest deleted34304850]

I cannot take on the task myself, neither can anyone else without a huge amount of work, because it wasn't done from the start as it should have been. Imagine finding a huge library with no catalogues as to what books were put where.

you really need to stop with these analogies. honest to god mate, you really don't have the first clue what you're talkiing about and its embarassing.

just learn to read mod descriptions and figure out for yourself what goes where in your game.

or - if that's too much hard work - don't mod your game.

Edited August 25, 2021 by 1ae0bfb8

[gnarly1]

 

I cannot take on the task myself, neither can anyone else without a huge amount of work, because it wasn't done from the start as it should have been. Imagine finding a huge library with no catalogues as to what books were put where.

you really need to stop with these analogies. honest to god mate, you really don't have the first clue what you're talkiing about and its embarassing.

+1

 

Hucker75 clearly doesn't think through his analogies before she/he posts. Librarians catalogue books; book authors (equivalent to mod authors here) don't. So the analogy breaks right there.

 

And a file hosting site is not analogous to a library.

 

But given it appears hucker75 is impervious to clear logic and rationality, I expect he/she will just continue insisting that somebody else should do it.

[hucker75]

 

 

But if you listed what cells your mod uses, then what was done under that using RefIDs it would be very easy for another modder to come along and find the handful of mods editing the cell they want to adjust, and see what they can do without causing conflicts. In fact you don't even need the cell. Say I wanted to edit a door in a building, and I have a RefID for what I'm going to adjust. I could just search the list for that RefID. I find your mod already uses it. I consider it likely people will want to use my mod and yours snice they're both similar sorts of quest mods for example. I consider increasing my audience by using another building.

 

 

 

IF YOU HAD READ THE DESCRIPTION PAGES, you wouldn't have installed a number of mods that have conflicts with the same door, building, or area.

 

That's on YOU, not the modders.

 

You don't want to accept ANY responsibility whatsoever

 

I think it's time to just put you on ignore, and let you yell into a vacuum at this point.

Nothing is going to convince you to take some initiative and actually READ THE DESCRIPTION PAGE AND STICKIES.

 

Instead, you want modders to make a big long list of nonsense, so people won't read that either.

 

 

The information is not always given in great detail, it would be a spoiler. Much easier for the mod author to do a search (computer have a find function) on a text file which mentions mods using a certain RefID or whatever.

 

 

 

 

 

But if you listed what cells your mod uses, then what was done under that using RefIDs it would be very easy for another modder to come along and find the handful of mods editing the cell they want to adjust, and see what they can do without causing conflicts. In fact you don't even need the cell. Say I wanted to edit a door in a building, and I have a RefID for what I'm going to adjust. I could just search the list for that RefID. I find your mod already uses it. I consider it likely people will want to use my mod and yours snice they're both similar sorts of quest mods for example. I consider increasing my audience by using another building.

 

It wasn't needed AT the start, but it was needed FROM the start. It's like building a 4 lane freeway knowing that in 5 years you'll need 8 lanes.

 

LOOT is exactly what your looking for, it even sorts .esps in an efficent manner. It's far from perfect of course

 

I have LOOT, that doesn't solve conflicts of doors. It just puts things in the most sensible order to load.

 

Listen, I get your idea. Really. It would be nice to have.

But you seem to be missing the point. (well, multiple, actually)

 

It isn't going to be a 'list', but a freakin database you need to search through and, or add your own, correct and detailed info. Incorrectly assuming all modders actually know what they are doing. To most its more like playing a game, searching the boundaries of whats possible and what not and how it all works or needs to be done. This database will never be complete and up to date. Therefore useless to begin with.

Besides, somebody will need to create, maintain this database and/or host a website for it (and get all modders to participate). Will you?

 

"Modders" are not some kind of superhumans who know all, can all agree, cooperate, read manuals and read forums full of posts on how to use or create mods. Heck, most are as lazy as 'mod users'. Pretty much all are stretching the limits of what they can do and understand.

 

Even if you did get past the technicalities, you will never get everybody to participate. Only a percentage. The ones who already fully document everything on their mod pages.

 

It just won't work. It's like calling out: "if everybody would just be nice to each other, there would be no war". Great idea, no? but its never gonna happen.

 

BUT, there is this one person who can, at least for himself, make that change, by being nice to everybody reading up on the mods installed, learn to deal with or avoid conflicts, or to be aware of them arising. YOU.

Document your findings so you can build your own perfectly working game using all this content other people spend their precious time on creating, asking nothing in return.

 

You could even share that list/database online and ask others to participate ... it will perhaps work better then telling others what you think they should have done (?)

If you have some programming skills, you could actually make a real contribution by automating the process of tracking conflicts across mods.

 

...or you could just wait for LOOT to get better at it (or, the people working hard to bring you that tool)

 

 

The technical details might not be quite like this, but the list would look like something like this with a few lines for each mod:

 

Mod: whatever. Cell: Diamond City. RefID 3B7C3852, door used to enter my dungeon.

 

So, you go to design a mod in diamond city. The first thing you should be thinking of is "has someone else already built there?" There's no point in making a mod that half the players can't use. Search for Diamond City, search for the RefID of the building you're fiddling with, computers have a search function, you wouldn't be reading the whole list, you'd be typing in a couple of IDs.

 

LOOT is for load order, it can't edit a mod to make it work with another if they both want you to open the same door to go to a different place inside.

 

 

 

I cannot take on the task myself, neither can anyone else without a huge amount of work, because it wasn't done from the start as it should have been. Imagine finding a huge library with no catalogues as to what books were put where.

you really need to stop with these analogies. honest to god mate, you really don't have the first clue what you're talkiing about and its embarassing.

+1

 

Hucker75 clearly doesn't think through his analogies before she/he posts. Librarians catalogue books; book authors (equivalent to mod authors here) don't. So the analogy breaks right there.

 

And a file hosting site is not analogous to a library.

 

But given it appears hucker75 is impervious to clear logic and rationality, I expect he/she will just continue insisting that somebody else should do it.

 

 

Wow, analogies aren't precisely the same, or they wouldn't be an analogy.

[gnarly1]

Wow, analogies aren't precisely the same, or they wouldn't be an analogy.

Correct but an analogy only works if there are fundamental aspects in common, which is what I demonstrated above. None of your analogies work in principle.

[RoNin1971]

 

 

 

 

 

 

But if you listed what cells your mod uses, then what was done under that using RefIDs it would be very easy for another modder to come along and find the handful of mods editing the cell they want to adjust, and see what they can do without causing conflicts. In fact you don't even need the cell. Say I wanted to edit a door in a building, and I have a RefID for what I'm going to adjust. I could just search the list for that RefID. I find your mod already uses it. I consider it likely people will want to use my mod and yours snice they're both similar sorts of quest mods for example. I consider increasing my audience by using another building.

 

It wasn't needed AT the start, but it was needed FROM the start. It's like building a 4 lane freeway knowing that in 5 years you'll need 8 lanes.

 

LOOT is exactly what your looking for, it even sorts .esps in an efficent manner. It's far from perfect of course

 

I have LOOT, that doesn't solve conflicts of doors. It just puts things in the most sensible order to load.

 

Listen, I get your idea. Really. It would be nice to have.

But you seem to be missing the point. (well, multiple, actually)

 

It isn't going to be a 'list', but a freakin database you need to search through and, or add your own, correct and detailed info. Incorrectly assuming all modders actually know what they are doing. To most its more like playing a game, searching the boundaries of whats possible and what not and how it all works or needs to be done. This database will never be complete and up to date. Therefore useless to begin with.

Besides, somebody will need to create, maintain this database and/or host a website for it (and get all modders to participate). Will you?

 

"Modders" are not some kind of superhumans who know all, can all agree, cooperate, read manuals and read forums full of posts on how to use or create mods. Heck, most are as lazy as 'mod users'. Pretty much all are stretching the limits of what they can do and understand.

 

Even if you did get past the technicalities, you will never get everybody to participate. Only a percentage. The ones who already fully document everything on their mod pages.

 

It just won't work. It's like calling out: "if everybody would just be nice to each other, there would be no war". Great idea, no? but its never gonna happen.

 

BUT, there is this one person who can, at least for himself, make that change, by being nice to everybody reading up on the mods installed, learn to deal with or avoid conflicts, or to be aware of them arising. YOU.

Document your findings so you can build your own perfectly working game using all this content other people spend their precious time on creating, asking nothing in return.

 

You could even share that list/database online and ask others to participate ... it will perhaps work better then telling others what you think they should have done (?)

If you have some programming skills, you could actually make a real contribution by automating the process of tracking conflicts across mods.

 

...or you could just wait for LOOT to get better at it (or, the people working hard to bring you that tool)

 

 

The technical details might not be quite like this, but the list would look like something like this with a few lines for each mod:

 

Mod: whatever. Cell: Diamond City. RefID 3B7C3852, door used to enter my dungeon.

 

So, you go to design a mod in diamond city. The first thing you should be thinking of is "has someone else already built there?" There's no point in making a mod that half the players can't use. Search for Diamond City, search for the RefID of the building you're fiddling with, computers have a search function, you wouldn't be reading the whole list, you'd be typing in a couple of IDs.

 

LOOT is for load order, it can't edit a mod to make it work with another if they both want you to open the same door to go to a different place inside.

:wallbash:

 

 

Even if you did get past the technicalities, you will never get everybody to participate. Only a percentage. The ones who already fully document everything on their mod pages.

 

 

This database will never be complete and up to date. Therefore useless to begin with.

 

 

You just keep ignoring these facts. so, dream on, but this is going nowhere.

Edited August 26, 2021 by RoNin1971

[HadToRegister]

[showler]

The short answer to all this is that if it was a good idea, if it was a useful idea, if it was a practical idea...then someone smarter than you or I, someone who actually knows how to do something like this, would have done it fifteen years ago when Oblivion was released.

[hucker75]

 

Wow, analogies aren't precisely the same, or they wouldn't be an analogy.

Correct but an analogy only works if there are fundamental aspects in common, which is what I demonstrated above. None of your analogies work in principle.

 

 

There are fundamental aspects in common: they're both a large number of people doing work on something, where their work can interfere with the work of the others unless they communicate.

 

 

 

You just keep ignoring these facts. so, dream on, but this is going nowhere.

 

 

What are the facts I have ignored?

 

The short answer to all this is that if it was a good idea, if it was a useful idea, if it was a practical idea...then someone smarter than you or I, someone who actually knows how to do something like this, would have done it fifteen years ago when Oblivion was released.

 

No one modder would probably think of doing it, as they'd have trouble getting everyone to know about it. But if Nexus had done it it could have worked. Every time you upload a mod to Nexus it could ask you to fill in some basic details of what you've edited, or you could even have the foresight to check what others have done first, since you don't want to write a mod that 50% of the users won't download because they have another mod that's really good and popular and has already used that door, when all you had to do was choose the door next to it. Hell it could even automatically match up conflicts and warn you.