showler Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 It would "cause no harm" because the complete process you described involves you breaking Vortex's management of the file and then choosing the option to have Vortex re-deploy the mods and re-establish control over the mods. Breaking it and then asking Vortex to fix it is not the same as not causing any harm at all. The real question is: under what circumstances would you want to perform the insane steps you describe to 1400 files? You do a lot to accomplish nothing and risk something going wrong for no reason. I would suspect that whatever you are attempting to accomplish there is a better way to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showler Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 If you're correct here, would that mean that all file system names are actually hard links? I think you're reaching a pedantic level here. The entire file system we see is simply an organized representation to allow us to try to understand what the computer is doing at a much deeper level than we are ever concerned with. The file is a collection of 1 and 0s stored on the disk in a variety of ways depending on the type of disk and can be broken up into hundreds of small segments located all over the disk. The file system knows where all that data is and how it relates to each other, but the directories and such are an organization system intended for us, not for the computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HadToRegister Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Augusta doesn't need "Mansplaining" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nt5raham Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 The real question is: under what circumstances would you want to perform the insane steps you describe to 1400 files? You do a lot to accomplish nothing and risk something going wrong for no reason. I would suspect that whatever you are attempting to accomplish there is a better way to do it.Circumstance 1: 4 hours to sort 1,932 plugins in LOOT vs a few minutes to sort 500 something. There has been a ticket open with LOOT on GitHub since Nov 2020 about this. The sorting of those 1,400 plugins is not critical because they are all disabled.Circumstance 2: False Save Corruption Bug caused by exceeding the Open File Handles limit of 2,048. Moving the plugins out of \Data\ corrected the problem. I have actually been performing these "insane steps" for over a year now to deal with the excessive sort time. I wrote a batch file to move the plugins, and when I was through sorting I would simply deploy and revert changes. A year ago, with 1,200 plugins, sorting was "only" one hour. Now with 60% more plugins it is taking 300% longer. My practice when putting together my load order was to remove the disabled plugins for sorting, then return them afterward for game play. I played about 1,400 hours on that build with no serious problems. Now I'm putting together an augmented build, and not only is the sort time logarithmically worse, it has also started causing the False Save Corruption Bug. So now, rather than putting the plugins back in \Data\ for game play, I'm having to leave them out. Incidentally, ghosting the plugins fixes the False Save Corruption Bug but not the sorting time issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showler Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 If those plugins are disabled then there are no hardlinks in the Data folder for them. And therefore nothing for LOOT to sort. Same with the false save corruption bug. The game can't see the plugins if there are no hardlinks. That's part of the point of having a staging folder and hardlink deployment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nt5raham Posted October 16, 2021 Author Share Posted October 16, 2021 If those plugins are disabled then there are no hardlinks in the Data folder for them. And therefore nothing for LOOT to sort. Same with the false save corruption bug. The game can't see the plugins if there are no hardlinks. That's part of the point of having a staging folder and hardlink deployment.You will need to debate with Pickysaurus and MacSplody who have both duplicated the sort time issue. It is well documented. Ditto with ghosted plugins. The game can't see them, but LOOT can. LOOT still sorts them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmm200 Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Directory entries in the staging folder are NOT the same as hard links Vortex creates in Data/. Copy the staging mod folder to a different drive (Vortex stopped please) and copy it back. No harm, no foul. Everything is as it was. Copy the game directory to a different drive and back again. This time you have broken every hard link... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showler Posted October 16, 2021 Share Posted October 16, 2021 Ghosted or not enabled? Those are two different things. If Loot is sorting mods that don't even exist in the staging folder then that seems like a stupidly bad problem that Loot needs to fix. I see that you are dealing with merged plugins, if you are ghosting the plugins then they are still deployed by Vortex, just not intended to be loaded by the game. In that case it seems like your best option would be to convince Vortex to deploy the mod assets but not the plugins. edit: It looks like there is no way to add a rule to simply not install an ESP/ESM/ESL file. Seems like that should be a feature request since ghosting is insufficient to solve the issues. second edit: I missed the extra information you added to your post earlier. Sorry if my response seemed "off" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nt5raham Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 Ghosted or not enabled? Those are two different things. If Loot is sorting mods that don't even exist in the staging folder then that seems like a stupidly bad problem that Loot needs to fix. I see that you are dealing with merged plugins, if you are ghosting the plugins then they are still deployed by Vortex, just not intended to be loaded by the game. In that case it seems like your best option would be to convince Vortex to deploy the mod assets but not the plugins.I am intentional in my use of ghosted and disabled, fully aware of the difference. The mods/plugins do exist in the staging folder because the mods are enabled. Consequently there are hardlinks for the plugins in \Data\ and LOOT is sorting them whether the plugins are disabled or enabled. That is by design and has always (as far as I know) been that way. Bingo on convincing Vortex to deploy mod assets but not the plugins. Unfortunately, Vortex does not see it that way. Thus my manual intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showler Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Seems like a very complicated way of getting around something that would be so easy to fix. Just add "don't deploy file" to the rules management options, then you could avoid having the unneeded files in the Data folder at all. Or maybe the MO2 method of putting them in a sub-directory would work? I think Vortex just adds an extra ".ghost" to the end of the file? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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