I don't associate with Nazis

[Pevey]

For me, it is on the front page. I don't see True Daughters of Skyrim. Perhaps it is because of filters? You probably have everything unfiltered so that you can keep tabs on things.

[Dark0ne]

Yeah, it'll be the filters then.

 

As for intentions, you need only read his comments on the file. He's handled it extremely well and made every effort to look in to the issue and even work to offer a version without the symbol. So long as communication with the author goes smoothly I will simply push for the swastika symbol to be changed away from it's slanted Nazi version to the original, non-Nazi version and wipe my hands clean of the situation. It's very clear through his comments that the intention was to use that version anyway and, I assume, he didn't know that the Nazi symbol was slightly different to the original symbol and ergo simply based his work off the first Google Image result for "Swastika". I'm sure you can guess what comes up first. As far as I'm concerned, if people aren't mature enough to accept the original, pre-Nazi symbol, and want to throw their toys out of the pram over it then they can go else where.

 

PS. the threats I'm receiving over email and PM would be laughable, if they weren't so god damn stupid.

[MostlyMuggie]

http://skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/45530//?

 

Thank you for providing the link. I could see why some people would become offended, although I do not believe in censorship. If you are offended by a mod, then don't download it. There are plenty of mods that could be considered offensive to different people on the Nexus.

[ZeroKing]

By some of the people's logic here and on that mod page, I should unfriend all of my British comrades here and start burning the British flag because of the atrocities the British committed on my family and my people in India over 100 years ago. Intelligent move, right?

 

It's a symbol that have been used without proper clarification. Would it not have been more intelligent of people to politely ask why it was used rather than be immediately offended by its existence? Better yet, just report the mod and leave it be.

[Lisnpuppy]

Since I did some moderating in this file I feel the need to chime in here. I have to say I was initially bemused by some of this especially when I got accused of being a Nazi when I closed comments on the file to prevent further trolling. I am obviously quite distressed at this time.

 

Now all of us come from different parts of the world, have had different experiences based on our ages, our upbringing and education. I had grandparents that fought in WWII in Europe and the Pacific Theater. I realize that my experiences are different from someone who, grew up in post-WWII Germany or is a relative of a holocaust survivor.

 

That being said we are not there, this is not then. We are intelligent creatures and I hope, can separate ourselves from these things to look at them objectively. This is a gaming site, this was one mod in thousands. When you read the mod authors descriptions and comments it is very clear that their intent was not to invoke the ghost of the Nazis. This symbol has been used for thousands of years mostly as a good luck symbol (so it stands to reason that would be a useful thing on armor.) I don't care how it is tilted on the armor. If the armor was red, white and black and subsequently put a mustachio on one's character then I would have been a bit skeptical.

 

 

This issue was, to me...that there was nothing to show this mod author used it in a way in which was defamatory, with ill intent or "trollishness." Yet so many people, outraged by this symbol whose only connotation for them is for intolerance and hate...spewed up pounds of it in this thread. Few seemed to have read or considered anything said before. Just a knee-jerk "OMG LOOK A NAZI ON THE NEXUS!!"

 

I am not stupid. I know my history very well thank you. I stand up as a moderator to be impartial and to try to do what is right and that is not always a popular choice. I don't relish answering complaint after complaint. I don't like to have to read either side of this and it has gotten well out of hand. If there had been an inkling in my mind that this was of ill intent I would have taken it down in a heartbeat. There was not. Was it the best thing to put on a piece of armor? Probably not. However one must consider again, we do not all have the same experiences, the same prejudices to things. Coming from all over the world (and yes there is more to it than the Western experience) I know not all things are equal.

 

So I did not remove this file. I do not believe it broke any rules as there was a reasonable reason for it and no evidence the author had intended to rouse anyone's hackles. What saddened me most, is that there were people..that seemed to throw all sensible and practical reason out the window to act in ways usually reserved for anti-gun or religion debates. People flat out accused this author or being racist, prejudiced and every other derogatory name based on nothing other than this small mod.

 

In the bigger scheme of things it seems kind of silly. I don't encourage hate or prejudice and neither does the owner of this site. Fact is this is a gaming site about games and that is it. To judge someone without questioning, without learning and considering as many seem to have done with this mod, makes me wonder.

 

I do not know what will happen to this mod, the modder who has so kindly shared their work or this situation. However I hope that in the future all of us can look at things without reading more into it that there is and maintain a somewhat pragmatic view of things. Even when a mod is put up that is something obviously repugnant (and this mod in my opinion was not meant to be so) the saying two wrongs do not make a right springs to mind. Some of the accusations to this author without full disclosure and demanding censorship of something just because you THINK it means this or that...skirts dangerously close to the ideals of which many of you were protesting against. By dismissing this I and we are not dismissing the importance of history. More that we know it happened and because this we do not have to repeat it. Not on the world stage or the Nexus stage.

 

edit: Trust Zeroking to say in two paragraphs what takes me ten.

[Pevey]

I think it's very admirable that the Nexus wants to keep a hand-off approach as much as possible, and I have every confidence that the staff is trying to be as honest and fair as possible. And I certainly don't think any of you are Nazis. But I think you perhaps want to think too much of the human race. This symbolism is not just a thing of the past. I do think it is at least possible that in this situation the mod author did not actually intend offense. But I just don't think that's an absolute defense, partly because of the severity of the symbolism and also because most Neo-Nazis have learned to not be exactly forthcoming about their "cause." I'm not suggesting any moderation action against the mod author. But I think it would be in everyone's best interest, including the author's, if the mod were to be voluntarily taken down until the edited version is released.

[Harkanthevampire]

The symbol looks similar to the nazi sign but its not the sign Like Dark0ne said don't start a whichhunt without the facts and I agree with him because symbols and the usage of them change over time depending what it changes like the peace sign maybe a thousand years from now maybe a symbol of war. Signs change and so do there meanings so hating a mod because of a sign that has a symbol that's similar to the one that was in history a bad sign is ridiculous

 

Its the meaning and the use that counts and not the sign itself

Edited October 30, 2013 by Harkanthevampire

[evenstargw]

As I have made a set of recolours of the armor in question, I would appreciate it if you could inform about how this turns out.

If there is reason to remove the version with the diagonal swastika, or to completely get rid of it, I will do so on request of site staff.

 

Thank you

[MidevalGuy]

Budcat was on his last legs anyway, IMHO.

 

He didn't have anything positive to say about Skyrim, or where TES games were headed, so I think this might have been a perfect excuse for him to move on (now he can feel justified about not buying the next games, etc).

 

As for the Mod itself...

 

I don't think the author meant any harm.

 

However, as an experienced modder (other games) I also feel he should have assumed the worst because (as somebody else wrote) people are stupid, but a person is not. That sounds harsh, but it's the truth. People act irrationally in mobs, but individuals are more prone to reason. I know this from extensive life experience, but also because I have been releasing mods for games for the last 20 years. So, I know how people are going to react to something and I always prepare for a worst case scenario FIRST because that is human nature. It's great when a mod release goes smoothly, but if they all went that way this thread wouldn't exist, now would it?

[Hyacathusarullistad]

Talk about a self righteous drama queen. Neither you nor your mods were useful nor impactful enough to make a post like this necessary, bud. So instead of leaving in quiet dignity you've simply exposed yourself as cocky, attention seeking, and overly dramatic.

 

Why do people feel the need to make departure posts on an internet forum? If you want to leave a community, just leave. It doesn't matter why you're doing it. This thread was not made as a social protest or necessary political statement. It was made for attention, plain and simple.