Is Bethesda Trying to Kill Modding Community?

[StormWolf01]

I think it's basically a translation layer. It alters the offsets for the memory injection based on what version of the game you are using. So, you install the Address Library and a different "translation" for each game version and the mod uses the one that matches in order to make sure everything lines up correctly.

 

The AL author seems to be able to produce a new translation version within a few hours of a game update, so any mod that relies on the Address Library is good to go as soon as the Script Extender and the Address Library have been updated, without the mod author having to alter the mod itself at all.

 

But, for reasons that are too complicated for my little brain, mods like RaceMenu, a lot of the various important fix DLLs and some other large mods can't seem to use the Address Library and need to be individually updated for every version.

Sorry for the late reply.

Ok, so yeah. It pretty much helps out, about the game version numbers, and the version of the script extender needed for updates.

Very cool to know, thanks Much, Showler! :)

Aye, too bad about what you were saying earlier about them :(

[xrayy]

as far as i understand the skse team detected a kind of exploit, hook or hidden programming entrance to access the game libraries, .an area in the skyrim.exe to manipuliate or expand the game functions and to expand these and make them available for mods.

it seems that this programming exploit or windows changes its adress(es) with a new compilaton of a changed exe. this is a black box for me. it seems no way known to circumvent this exploit access.

why after 10 years (of reverse engineering)? maybe because it is just a memory window like a sort expanded window area with a limited number of addresses.

[HeyYou]

as far as i understand the skse team detected a kind of exploit, hook or hidden programming entrance to access the game libraries, .an area in the skyrim.exe to manipuliate or expand the game functions and to expand these and make them available for mods.

it seems that this programming exploit or windows changes its adress(es) with a new compilaton of a changed exe. this is a black box for me. it seems no way known to circumvent this exploit access.

why after 10 years (of reverse engineering)? maybe because it is just a memory window like a sort expanded window area with a limited number of addresses.

Are you concerned that Beth will close that loophole? If so, I wouldn't worry. There have been script extenders since beth started using the Gamebryo/Creation engine. (Morrowind, back in 01) There will likely be one for Starfield as well.

[showler]

My understanding is that the Script Extender program gives special instructions regarding how the game executable is loaded into memory. Basically, it says "load x bytes of the original file, then insert part A of our file, then continue loading the original file for Y bytes, then insert part B of our file, then continue loading the original file for Z bytyes, then..." and so on.

 

Since the places to insert the new data is located by "offsets" from the start of the file, it's important they know exactly what those offsets are or the result in memory is a scrambled mess rather than an enhanced program. That's why any change to the game executable results in the script extender refusing to run until the offsets can be confirmed or updated.

 

As long as Bethesda doesn't encrypt the file, which prevent them from pulling it apart to find the offsets, the script extender will work.

 

Microsoft Game Pass does have encryption, so there isn't a script extender for it. Not because they CAN'T pull it apart, but because it would illegal for them to do so.

[xrayy]

i`m not concerned. i just hope that bethesda can somehow open their games even more if they are gamerfriendly as they say. but i'm not sure if they are able to and why they do not integrate skse team. the skse mods makes skyrim somehow an everlastig game and even better if updates would be possible while in future independent from some stupid addess updates.

 

yes, the extender is somehow able to use an environment for an interface using an exploit to exchange and add commands in skyrim.exe - like a virus (? or...). it is just my guess.

why is this so top secret or lousy documented ? seems something is hidden from normal user.

[showler]

why they do not integrate skse team.

No point. The SKSE team aren't doing anything that Bethesda's programmers can't do.

 

The extra script functions that SKSE adds are not in the base game because Bethesda had no use for them. If they needed them, they would be there already. A lot of the CC updates are them adding in new functions as the CC mods needed them.

 

Again, the Script Extenders are extensions added to the game because mod makers requested special functions for their mod ideas to work. The only way that integrating the SKSE devs into Bethesda would work is if Bethesda was willing to pay someone to add new functions into the game at the request of mod makers. And there is simply no way in Hell they get that past the budget department.

[showler]

yes, the extender is somehow able to use an environment for an interface using an exploit to exchange and add commands in skyrim.exe - like a virus (? or...). it is just my guess.

why is this so top secret or lousy documented ? seems something is hidden from normal user.

I don't think it's as "lousy documented" as you assume. The Skyrim DLL Plugin Loader does essentially the same thing as SKSE to inject the new commands. And I believe there is at least one more beyond that. But you only really need one.

[xrayy]

@showler - one question because of the way you answer my posts. just to be sure and to ease my mind: are you paid or involved somehow by bethesda ? you respond like someone who tries to defend bethesda in an unusual way. just my impression.

 

i tell you why i'm wondering:

1. how do you know that skse integration is no point since it is a third party part of their games for more then 10 years ? so if bethesda can do skse why don't they do ? how do you know that money is the reason and beth is not willing to pay? as you say they have the knowledge and they have the money and they like to support gamer - so - why still cc support and cc integration just bringig money and problems instead of joy (and nobody asked for) instead of better community friendly skse and modding support for example? this makes no sense to me and your answers miss the content that could convince me as a gamer.

2. what is well documented regarding skse ? maybe you can give me the documentation or a link to a wiki? is skse an open project and if not why not ?

[showler]

@showler - one question because of the way you answer my posts. just to be sure and to ease my mind: are you paid or involved somehow by bethesda ? you respond like someone who tries to defend bethesda in an unusual way. just my impression.

No, I don't have anything to do with Bethesda. I'm just annoyed by this accusation continually coming up in defiance of all logic and evidence. It's the "flat earth" of Nexus Mods. You'll notice that the OP left the conversation after having their "argument" destroyed and basically saying "it's my opinion, so you can't argue against it."

i tell you why i'm wondering:

1. how do you know that skse integration is no point since it is a third party part of their games for more then 10 years ? so if bethesda can do skse why don't they do ? how do you know that money is the reason and beth is not willing to pay? as you say they have the knowledge and they have the money and they like to support gamer - so - why still cc support and cc integration just bringig money and problems instead of joy (and nobody asked for) instead of better community friendly skse and modding support for example? this makes no sense to me and your answers miss the content that could convince me as a gamer.

SKSE has been part of the game for ten years because MODS need those functions. The base game has never needed anything that is in SKSE. Anything that was needed in the base game by the Expansions or CC content has been added to the game engine by Bethesda when it was needed. That is effectively them "doing SKSE". Them adding in the features that SKSE brings at the request of modders makes no more sense then them just adding in the mods themselves. Modding is community driven, the company can only justify a limited expense to support it. If you can't understand that then you can't understand business at all.

2. what is well documented regarding skse ? maybe you can give me the documentation or a link to a wiki? is skse an open project and if not why not ?

The source files for SKSE are included in the download itself. And it has a GitHub repository. Anyone has access to that information. Whether or not the SKSE devs integrate anyone's contributions is up to them.

 

edit: also, keep in mind that integrating SKSE would not actually help with the issues people are complaining about. Mods that inject code would still need to be updated with every release.

[xrayy]

ok, thanks for trying to explain. i think it is common that a gamer want the best mods without getting stuck midgame just because a content upgrade destroys his game/setup, result: some mods will not run, some others will never run again and the game the will ctd since the content upgrade on steam can not be prevented - maybe drm free gog release in fututre will prevent such "nice" surprises,

 

question again: waiting 10 years for drm free gog skyrim ? 10 years too late but better than never. thanks bethesda! this is all a flat and sad joke but not flat earth at all as you say.

 

where is the logic to destroy a game with drm ? why have common gamer to suffer from this stupid steam distribution of the game for over 10 years until it gets reasonable and drm free?

oblivon was the last steam free game from bethesda while the gamer had full control over updates (not ruled by steam). and obse worked and i decided if i updated or not. not anyone else.

no internet dependency at all. just free decision.

it was a better time and i my opinion drm/steam was wjatever you want - but not userfriendly at all. never ! why gog 10 years later and not bethesa ? so we had to wait 10 years for gog tp play skyrim like the cd version for oblivion. what an incredible advance and logic after 10 years steam dependency without a choice, a "gamer friendly" decision by bethesda we all know now...

i know many people like steam platform. and many people like collections. and they the dependencies from a third party. i'm ok with it it as long as i`m not urged to change things just for profit.

 

i´ve never liked steam but i had no choice to play skyrim drm free due to this stupid move - waiting 10 years with a steam virus on my pc ( big brother background advertising process) to see a drm free skyrim and i do not have to fear updates in the wrong moment.

maybe this saves also the community . even if bethesda produces the next update mess - just nobody cares, like with oblivion and obse long ago.