Is Bethesda Trying to Kill Modding Community?

[xrayy]

yeah, there are still options that work. also for me and many others. i also don't say that all this is a fault of bethesda (alone). but we all see what happens and to play that down or to ignore it even in a serious (?) debate is not a solution at all and and that a game suddenly crashes is not the fault of the player just because he is a victim of this sudden forced change of his game often without proper warning of the consequences. the attitude to blame the player who payed for the game part of the community is not what i expected here. ignoring a significant number in the community who are stuck with their game and leave the modded game because they have difficulties play it as the they want or even at all. it shows to me a lack of awareness for what is truly going on - not only with bethesda games.

i can't see that simply blaming the player helps to solve changing the policy to a more player friendly one.

we should not forget that most players to not have a deep insight in game mechanics and they are probably surprised and do not expect if an update just breaks their game and adds in worst case just useless features instead of giving them more stability. and exactly this happened in oct 2021 after the sse (mainly) stable 1.5.9.7 release and many times before and also in other games. it seems bethesda learned nothing since then. we all know how many downloads a mod for sse has just helping lost souls reset their setup just to be able to continue their gameplay. ignoring that fact (just one of many examples) is just rediculous and it really surprised me to experience that ignorance in this debate from people i thought they know better. just read the mod thread sticky post. nothing to add from my side. "careless" is just a nicer word for incapable or chaos.

i´m out of these ae beta tester program for nothing. i just want to play my stable game without being forced to do or update anything. i can not see that bethesda planned and tested ae properly. anyone who tells the opposite has no arguments or blames humble beta testers forced to beta-test or to roll back or to reset from scratch somehow while some people in a nexus debate praise bethesda for their console policy for an unknown reason.

[Guest deleted34304850]

 

 

 

Because EVERY DECISION BETHESDA MAKES HAS TO TAKE INTO ACCOUNT WHAT IS BEST FOR THEIR CONSOLE PLAYERS, WHO ACTUALLY MAKE UP THE MAJORITY OF THEIR CUSTOMERS.

 

If you discuss this without thinking about the consoles, then you are not actually discussing reality.

 

If all you want to do is complain about the poor PC players being hard done by Bethesda without actually thinking about the reality of operating a business then you are free to do so. But despite the memes, you can't actually "reject their reality and substitute your own".

and explicitly for you: i do not care for bethesda and i do not care for console players, they can care for their problems and i care for pc related problems because i'm a pc gamer in a pc mod forum which obviously and strangely defends console positions and bethesda policy. who cares for that ? i do not and it is stupid to do so in a pc mod forum and to ignore pc gamers and their well known problems. maybe it is time and someone tells me this is not a pc mod forum anymore but a console or bethesda or steam forum. what i read here is toxic and not what i expected in this pc modding friendly community.

i better leave this debate at this point.

 

software doesn't know what a pc or a console is - it is, after all, software.

i do struggle to comprehend why you try to fence off "this is a pc forum we can only talk about pc's" when the debate isn't about pc's at all, but about software update deployments which are device agnostic.

i think the last sentence in the quote above is your best contribution to the entire thread, so at least you went out on a positive. well done.

 

great and i am fanboy agnostic, so everything fits in the end in this debate :wink:

 

 

very quick return to stupid comments, i see. perhaps this is your true level.

[Guest deleted34304850]

 

 

someone tells me this is not a pc mod forum anymore but a console or bethesda or steam forum.

 

This is actually the "debate" forum and the OP started a debate about whether Bethesda is actively working against the modding community.

 

How you imagine this discussion has veered from that topic is mind boggling.

 

true, a sad debate about bethesda and their role in killing the community. since today i was not aware betheda does not need to kill the community. they have their fanboys doing that job for them. and i'm sure - bethesda is community agnostic but not money agnostic.

 

 

This is just a collection of words without meaning. Metaphorical foot-stamping if you will.

 

You seem to be quite frustrated for some reason. Perhaps its your limited understanding of the issue at hand, or perhaps you're simply having a bad day. Regardless, throwing juvenile insults around is a sure-fire indication that you need to step away from your keyboard and let the adults in the room continue to educate and inform.

[xrayy]

i'm sorry that you are unable decypher even simple messages just made for you und to study the content of my valid links. I can not do more and don't want to feed trolls (i obviously did) or support pure ignorance. I am completely relaxed and wish you all the best but at least i decided to not ignore the obvious AE patches and related update problems and annoyances. i see only the risk of frustration for people who update to AE while expecting compatibility at the same time. this will not work and also can not fully guaranteed in the future and for all mods.

 

i hope you cancel downplaying or to ignore obvious AE SSE problems currently patched on a per day basis and causing chaos, documented on nexusmods. seems not to be content that you are informed about or interested in. if you do not trust nexusmods maybe announcements like these help to remember..

i fear we will never experience a stable and fully compatible sse version after 1.5.9.7. again. everybody can decide on his own how important anything else (AE and diverse patches and updates) is - with this and after this AE release - considering the compatibility downsides and permanent issues (including consoles by the way). i hope the next AE Version is better tested and prepared for the public including compatibility). probably we will never get this in combination. And i clearly prefer backwards compatibility instead of cc and fishing mod content including update chaos and a disturbed community. it would be simple to let the player decide instead of bethesda or steam. but this brings no extra cash...

i do not risk extra money for a game i already own 2x just for getting extra trouble and incompatibility. for me simply a bad offer and trade and nothing i'm interested in.

 

just other than the bethsda fan boys i give you a clear (and tested) recommendation which works an do not blame the player in a stupid update circus (if you don't know already):

 

Start modding with a resetted 1.5.9.7, fully compatible modding capable Version.

Handle it like a diamond and avoid any forced update attempts(see nexusmods and you tube tutorials for that)

After you get used to the first bug free experience after erratically updating to AE please use only manually selected and tested quality mods and the way is free for a great, ctd and (almost) bug free, modded and compatible sse experience as many people remember before entering the AE update nightmare!

the price to pay: no fishing addon and no AE added cc content but also no wasted money for content at least i don't need and i don't miss.

[showler]

A couple of reminders for the debate:

 

Regarding the "unnecessary patches" argument: Here's the list of changes recently

 

 

Resolved issue preventing some mods from properly loading.

Resolved an issue causing the player's Creation Credit balance to display incorrectly after immediately purchasing credits.

Resolved issue preventing player from purchasing the pet Nix-hound in some non-English languages.

Resolved issue preventing player from purchasing horse armor in some non-English languages.

+Added "Installed Content" menu item.

Fixed mods access for Japanese and Chinese regions.

Fixed some Creations showing up as "Owned" but not installed.

Fixed an issue causing PC players (Steam and Microsoft Store) to crash when entering Kalbjorn Barrow and the Dawnstar Museum.

+Added additional translations when downloaded creations.

Fixed Ash Zombies respawning and finding the player in their home (Ghost of the Tribunal).

Fixed light flicker in the Ragged Flagon Cistern.

Fixed Palomino Horses missing mane textures.

Fixed an issue some PC Steam players were experiencing when trying to upgrade using their keyboard.

Fixed an issue where Creation Club Bundles were incorrectly showing as "owned".

Fixed an issue some players experienced when trying to change button mapping.

Fixed crashing issue when spam casting Fireball.

Fixed a problem preventing some doors in Rielle from opening properly.

Fixed an issue where Russian and Polish notes were not displaying text properly.

Fixed an issue where German and French players were given incorrect menu text when leveling up.

Fixed an issue where players were experiencing a "black screen" and upon launching.

 

 

That's 18 fixes and two additions since AE was released. And the two additions both seem like useful additions. Now, all or most of these fixes might not apply to you, but they do apply to someone. So they were necessary regardless of whether they were helpful to you.

 

Regarding the "allow us to choose to update" argument: Steam DOES NOT, as far as I am aware or have been able to Google, have a functionality to allow players to choose whether or not to apply an update. Bethesda cannot ask Steam to do something it does not have a functionality for. Bethesda seems to be okay with GOG allowing blocking and rolling back of updates, so I doubt it is their decision on Steam. If not being able to block or roll back the updates is your primary complaint, direct it at Valve, not Bethesda.

 

Regarding the "they should update in a way that doesn't affect the Script Extenders" argument: Nobody has given a way to do that. If you need to make changes to the games code you either have to change the main executable, or add a DLL that will inject itself on memory load. Either method will break the Script Extenders and every other mod that uses memory injection. There isn't a way around it.

 

Regarding the "blaming the players" argument: We're not "blaming" the players, we're pointing out that, given the above facts, the player is the only one who can actively prevent these issues from occurring. There are plenty of resources to explain how to prevent the updates from occurring and mods to back up or roll back the game. It is preferable to do something about the problem that is affecting you rather than impotently complaining to the ether about it.

[Guest deleted34304850]

i'm sorry that you are unable decypher even simple messages just made for you und to study the content of my valid links. I can not do more and don't want to feed trolls (i obviously did) or support pure ignorance. I am completely relaxed and wish you all the best but at least i decided to not ignore the obvious AE patches and related update problems and annoyances. i see only the risk of frustration for people who update to AE while expecting compatibility at the same time. this will not work and also can not fully guaranteed in the future and for all mods.

oh you think i'm going to click links that someone who rapidly degenerated into name calling because they can't debate coherently provided?

think again.

 

rest of the words - nah, as i said, i have explained how this works - you compared it to putin. at that point i lost interest. the name calling was funny in a pathetic way though.

[showler]

It's extra funny because the page they linked lists the patch notes for the console versions of the game.

[xrayy]

seems you feel comfortable and to be the center of he world in your small ae patch and update bubble. - great - but the truth is nobody who is well informed needs AE 1.6.x.x. at all including the patch notes since stable and compatible 1.5.9.7 version exists since 2019 and is available without any ae dependency. and thanks to excellent mods the rollback is an easy task in the meantime. so only not well informed or surprised gamer realizing their AE problems encounter trouble and need to read the patch notes or much better in their own interest- roll back soon to 1.5.9.7. to simply avoid and circumvent further patch and modding trouble with AE(recommended) :smile:

 

but the debate is not about the solution for the ae-problems and compatibility, which already is availble on many channels with no help and no money from bethesda. the question - to come back to the topic - is: what was bethesda's idea and plan before others (as always) solved their problems and offered the rollback option for frustrated gamers? just to make guick cash without caring for quality while gamer with lesser technical affininty are left alone with their black screens and mod error messages? why again the severe ae patch and update fails and headache for consumers even in sept 2022 ? maybe the fanboys here can explain while blaming everyone who payed but not the source which earned the money with AE?

[showler]

what was bethesda's idea and plan before others (as always) solved their problems and offered the rollback option for frustrated gamers? why the severe ae patch and update fails and headache for consumers ?

The plan was to celebrate the anniversary of Skyrim by offering free content and a highly discounted CC pack to their consumers. A plan that benefited the VAST MAJORITY of those consumers.

 

At no point was their plan to hurt the modding community. It was an unavoidable side effect.

[Guest deleted34304850]

 

what was bethesda's idea and plan before others (as always) solved their problems and offered the rollback option for frustrated gamers? why the severe ae patch and update fails and headache for consumers ?

The plan was to celebrate the anniversary of Skyrim by offering free content and a highly discounted CC pack to their consumers. A plan that benefited the VAST MAJORITY of those consumers.

 

At no point was their plan to hurt the modding community. It was an unavoidable side effect.

 

for modding community see tiny, almost insigificant minority when all customer setups are taken into consideration.