why ?

[xrayy]

 

 

 

<snip>

... ...

 

 

If you think Liberal Media can be trusted, you are deluding yourself. NONE of the major media outlets have much credibility any more. They ALL have their own bias, and report the 'news' accordingly. If you are only getting your news from one source, and not back-checking them, they you are just as uninformed as the seriously alt-right folks.

 

your answer shows me that you concentrate on what you like to hear from me. i do not answer because you must prove your assumptions before i discuss them with you. what you claim simply sounds weird. i will not go into detail...

i back check all my sources (in my native language) and i hope you do the same. read lisnpuppys posts and we may discuss them afterwards if you like.

 

please avoid to confront me with weird assumptions while failing to substantiate your wild claims. too often i went into this trap. not this time or any time in future! by the way you can't trust any source without back checking. if you think i'm not at least aware of that - any discussion between you and me makes no sense at all. so think first and post afterwards or just avoid me in any debate in future if you are not willing to substantiate your claims before getting an answer. my sources are preferably in german language and the reason while i prefer to share some (back checked) information or links in english is that it would not help anyone in my opinion if i post my content in german language. keep cool and get the content (i back checked) and do not fail to substantiate your content related claims founded so far on your empty or weird assumptions.

this should be easy and simple to understand. i think and i speak mainly german language but i post english in this forum and I'm very grateful for native english speakers like lisnpuppy who support me to make americans able to understand what is relevant. it is "really" a little harder for me to express my clear german thoughts as precise in english or american english as i would like to be able to. please forgive me this weakness.

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

 

<snip>

... ...

 

 

If you think Liberal Media can be trusted, you are deluding yourself. NONE of the major media outlets have much credibility any more. They ALL have their own bias, and report the 'news' accordingly. If you are only getting your news from one source, and not back-checking them, they you are just as uninformed as the seriously alt-right folks.

 

your answer shows me that you concentrate on what you like to hear from me. i do not answer because you must prove your assumptions before i discuss them with you. what you claim simply sounds weird. i will not go into detail...

i back check all my sources and i hope you do. read lisnpuppys posts and we may discuss them afterwords if you like. please do not confront me while failing to substantiate your wild claims. too often i went into this trap. not this time or any time in future. by the way you can't trust any source without back checking. if you think i'm not at least aware of that - any discussion between you and me makes no sense at all. so think first and post afterwords or just avoid me in any debate in future if you are not willing to substantiate your claims before getting an answer. my sources are in german language and the reason while i prefer to share some information or links in english is that it would not help anyone if i post my the content in german language. keep cool and get the content and do not fail to substantiate your claims founded on empty or weird assumptions so far.

 

See, and that response right there tells me NOTHING I say will sway your opinion. You will still take liberal media as gospel. Back checking liberal media via other liberal media sources is pretty much pointless. If you don't believe that ALL media outlets tell their stories to suit there own bias, then you can continue to live your life with blinders on, and swallow the lies they wish to feed you. Good Luck with that.

[xrayy]

 

 

 

 

 

<snip>

... ...

 

 

If you think Liberal Media can be trusted, you are deluding yourself. NONE of the major media outlets have much credibility any more. They ALL have their own bias, and report the 'news' accordingly. If you are only getting your news from one source, and not back-checking them, they you are just as uninformed as the seriously alt-right folks.

 

your answer shows me that you concentrate on what you like to hear from me. i do not answer because you must prove your assumptions before i discuss them with you. what you claim simply sounds weird. i will not go into detail...

i back check all my sources and i hope you do. read lisnpuppys posts and we may discuss them afterwords if you like. please do not confront me while failing to substantiate your wild claims. too often i went into this trap. not this time or any time in future. by the way you can't trust any source without back checking. if you think i'm not at least aware of that - any discussion between you and me makes no sense at all. so think first and post afterwords or just avoid me in any debate in future if you are not willing to substantiate your claims before getting an answer. my sources are in german language and the reason while i prefer to share some information or links in english is that it would not help anyone if i post my the content in german language. keep cool and get the content and do not fail to substantiate your claims founded on empty or weird assumptions so far.

 

See, and that response right there tells me NOTHING I say will sway your opinion. You will still take liberal media as gospel. Back checking liberal media via other liberal media sources is pretty much pointless. If you don't believe that ALL media outlets tell their stories to suit there own bias, then you can continue to live your life with blinders on, and swallow the lies they wish to feed you. Good Luck with that.

 

seems you are unable self reflect your communication problem. if you are unable to identify your problem that you always try to argue with unsubstantiated claims you will fail all the time in a debate. i can not help you with this. at least i tried. i fear we will not find a working communication channel at all. spread your unfounded claims and leave them as they are. it will not help to exchange any meaningful content between us nor will it enrich this debate. so i think we simply should end this now.

[Lisnpuppy]

 

 

 

<snip>

... ...

We need to stop and call them for the lies they are telling.

 

As I said Putin has been carrying this message for over 20 years now to Europe and the US. He has played the long game and now, even if he is showing his true colors some won't see it. They believe it is lies made up by the "liberal media" or whatever. Hands have been tied. Maybe they won't stay tied forever but will it be too late?

 

I don't disagree with how it should be. That is not the reality of the situation. Sadly, republics and democracies do not last. They never have and likely never will. 300 years seems to be about the limit. Now, they come back but everything runs its course. If we want it to continue and to grow we have to fight for it. That doesn't always mean an army.

 

(Sorry for my double post!!)

 

it is somehow unbelievable for me but conspiracy has gotten incredibly worse and effective since 2016 in such a bad way in the u.s. and also in europe that "liberal media" as the only source that still can be trusted is treated like not reliable at all in the meantime thanks to trumps permanent lies and his way to communicate his "alternative" facts as the truth.

in germany we have now "reichsbürger" which existed even before 2016 in smaller numbers. this sounds like a joke but it is not. it is a clear indication that conspiracy is a serious problem in the meantime. alternative facts are forced and supported by individuals like trump and the far right media to push and gain more power and they use their own misleading propaganda and social network for that - while the world is watching and government seems not prepared for such attacks (like it was not in in 1933). it is about the same way hitler prepared his ww2 plans and propaganda with the "Volksempfänger" and the world knows it worked for 12 years until billions of people were dead.

 

this time this weird game of conspiracy and power will end apocalyptic if not stopped in an earlier stage by brave politicians i'm currently not aware of.

treating the will of a whole independent nation (3x bigger than germany) like dirt and with ignorance cannot end peaceful - we all know that and putin knows that and he knows he has the key for peace in his hands - he and his regime and no one else!

his conspiracy and propaganda plans work only in russia and will additionally impress only some weird east germans and "reichsbürger". the question is if he will act like hitler and will he play his criminal and deadly game in a foreign country to the bitter end ?

 

europe and the u.s. could use the knowledge history offers us. but i'm not sure we will react in time in the shape we are.

 

If you think Liberal Media can be trusted, you are deluding yourself. NONE of the major media outlets have much credibility any more. They ALL have their own bias, and report the 'news' accordingly. If you are only getting your news from one source, and not back-checking them, they you are just as uninformed as the seriously alt-right folks.

 

 

 

Yes, they all have bias and any politically inclined channel will. However, they were and some still are, like spin doctors. The difference is this...once both sides agreed on the data, that it was true and factual but they would spin it their own way. Or they ignored one piece of data (like didn't discuss) or concentrated on another instead. The channels were similar. They did not ignore science. They did not lie and say this data was made up and factual untrue. Now, that is what many do and it seems unfortunate that most seem to be conservative or "alt-right". That these channels will put up say, Lindsay Graham who will stand and say he never said something even when video clearly shows him saying just that. Trump made that into an artform.

 

Yes, there are liberals and "liberal media" out there that does this. But there are many who just spin. Myself, I read. I read tons. From the New York Times to the Wall Street Journal. I also try to do my homework about the people writing and sources they reference. I try to go read dissenting opinions. I read tons of history also, obviously.

 

It is not as easy as it once was but still possible. What I can not and will not forgive is lies from any quarter. That is what is happening and has been to a degree for some time. However, the recent filings and under oath interviews by Fox News shows the actual depth of the lies when they admitted they knew the truth of the 2020 election. However, when THEY correctly and FIRST called Arizona the people who watched got angry and threw a fit. That is when they began spreading the lies that lead directly to insurrection. And that is what it was...an insurrection attempt. More, that channel, who in court filings said they were not news but "entertainment" continues to spread lies and falsehoods about the last election. Every, single lawsuit filed against that election has failed both liberal and conservative judiciary.

 

People must be held accountable for their own views and should be educated. That is something that needs to begin in schools and we need our children not trained to regurgitate facts but to think critically and logically.

 

I live in West Virginia, one of the most conservative, homogeneous states around. Time and time again, ask West Virginians about "liberal policies" and they are NO!! Ask them about healthcare, CHIPs and other programs that are actually "liberal" then they are overwhelmingly for those policies. Weird,, huh? It is no accident that our education system is one of the worst in the US despite WV having trained (in my youth) some of the best teachers in the nation. In fact, the teacher who was supposed to go to space in the Challenger had a runner-up...a teacher from West Virginia, my own hometown in fact. (Even the infamous break of the sound barrier Chuck Yeager is from here.) Now, we still train excellent teachers they just leave for somewhere they actually get a paycheck. My daughter who is currently working on her Masters, had a class in high school for an entire trimester on How to take the ACT. Not learn things but how to take it. It infuriated me.

 

So as parents and as a society, we need to stop allowing people to act like educators are indoctrinators. America has had a hate/hate relationship with education. From the beginning we are shown stories of "the CEO who never even graduated from 6th grade" stories like its a badge of honor. Yes, it is wonderful that we are shown that we can succeed regardless of circumstance-but that doesn't mean education is not of primary import. Even when younger, I'd have people in my own family knocking that I was in college. That my head was full of "book learning" or how I wanted to be "bigger than my britches" by becoming learned." That still happens today all over the US. Heck, some school in Florida (I think) had parents get all pissy on a section students would learn about Michelangelo's David....because he is nude and they didn't follow procedure for showing this which was to notify parents 2 weeks before the lesson (the same lesson done for two years prior.) I mean, what the actual hell. The principle was fired. Why do we need notification for a simple showing of David a 500 year old renaissance masterpiece during a lesson of art from the period. All that shizz is nudes. Why did a handful of parents get to dictate for the entire school a policy which is honestly stupid. This isn't some controversial political idea...its a damn world masterpiece.

 

School systems and libraries are under attack in the US and worldwide, demanded to them that books be banned. Book banning is the most awful thing that can happen in place. Because its not truly vile things but books about Jews, people of color and the like. Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart said in 1964 that "he knew pornography when I see it." But did he and do we?

 

I even had a debate with my husband about a current University of Pennsylvania law school professor who is in trouble for some very not nice statements on a public podcast. There are some arguments about in-class teachings also but just on her public facing comments I believe she should not lose tenure and be fired for it because her rights of free speech and the fact she does not teach any "have to have" classes. We need our teachers to have different ideas at this level even if I do not agree provided they do not break any rules for classroom discourse. Why? Because people need to hear different sides and learn to think critically. Because, if we go after her then someday (like now) someone who has more progressive ideas will be subject to this same litmus test. The first thing autocrats go after are the freedom of the press and scholars. Always, yes every time. Over and over in history we see it happen. Also for me, better the devil we know.

 

We need to have all books in libraries and children need to be exposed to many things. And if your ideas are strong and have stood up to critical thinking then they are worthy. If they can not....then perhaps you should reflect on that.

 

We made the idea of giving sound bytes to people....we need to unmake that. We need to hold people responsible for words and deeds not shelter them from it. This means us and our children and our communities. I'll give a funny but not example. There is a TikTok-er who became infamous of late for saying the entire Roman Empire and its culture never existed. It was made up. Sure, some saw it funny but Im not sure if she believed it or not but some people did believe her. Far more than would have or even had access to her before the internet. Those people that believe are some of the same ones and have the same faulty thinking that leads them to other more scary conspiracy theories. One of the biggest is the issue of her lack of sources and her own lack of expertise. I'm not saying non-experts can not become so on their own or even have flashes of brilliance (as witnesses in a recent article I read about a man who loved cave painting art discovered the meaning behind some what looks like some numbering system in the art) but you have to look into the people saying things as much as what they are saying.

 

No....I do agree that political news is a ....two-sided coin at best. If it is your only consumption then it can be a problem. Be better than that! Read, listen and think. Don't put your hands over your ears going "nah nah can't hear you!" Listen, read, learn to think. I won't say you are wrong because you are conservative or liberal. I will say you are wrong by giving my argument and reference good sources for A, B and C.

 

When people deny even basic facts....then discourse becomes impossible.

[xrayy]

it seems my content that "liberal media is the only source that still can be trusted" was a bad way to express what i wanted to say. thanks again to lisnpuppy to put this in the right context and in the right words.

i understand "liberal media" not as heyyou`s "liberal media". it is for me the opposite of extremist or conspriacy media and not how an already biased american understands it. no ideal or "pure" truth media source exists in real life and i'm sure we are all aware of that...

it seems to me that the word "liberal" is reduced to a political overloaded term but not what it literally means to me: free thinking.

what i wanted to say was: do not trust extremist and conspiracy if you are able to identify it. i did not say "do not backcheck the source" and trust only u.s. democrats content source.

I'm sure my "german" interpretation of "liberal" and "liberal media" is miles away from what a politically biased american (mis)undestands. I'm sorry for that. please don't treat me as a native american.

i confirm my main language is german and i still have to learn about some traps posting in english :smile:

[ScytheBearer]

On trusting Media sources, the easiest way is to start with reputable news sources which can be read and not watched. Get away from sound bites and talking heads that get in the way of the story, stories which are "compressed" to fit a time slot.

For American sources, I use The Hill (https://thehill.com/news/), Associated Press (https://apnews.com/), The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/us), Axios (https://www.axios.com/) and Military.com (https://www.military.com/)

To validate what one reads in the American Media Outlets, also read International Media Outlets. Reuters (German, https://www.reuters.com/world/), the BBC (British, https://www.bbc.com/news/world), the CBC (Canadian, https://www.cbc.ca/news), the Jerusalem Post (Israel, https://www.jpost.com/international), ABC (Australia, https://www.abc.net.au/news/world/), and The Daily Excelsior (India, https://www.dailyexcelsior.com/international/) are my favorites for finding perspective on American Politics and International dealings.


Each of these sites will cover stories from a little different perspective and give one a more rounded and nuanced view of what is really happening, without all the clanging and banging associated with broadcast "news outlets".

Edited March 29, 2023 by ScytheBearer

[JimboUK]

When it comes to the media it's best to read both sides rather than rely on just one source, for example the Guardian and Breitbart rarely tell lies in their articles but both paint such one sided pictures of events that they might as well be lying, read both and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. As for the BBC, if you want to know what the British establishment wants you to think then they're you're guys, if not it's best avoided.

[Pagafyr]

It's even a good idea to read ancient stories written as many as 3000 years ago.

[xrayy]

just a thing i can not really laugh about but at least it shows that not all american friends are just crazy or permanently under influence of drugs. :wink:

i guess d. trump can also not laugh - but for other reasons... but he has his maga fanclub.

 

“What an adorable story about alcoholism” ... i have not more to add to the story of gov. kristi noem. now i know why some people even take putin and trump serious apart from being dangerous...

[Fkemman11]

Doesn't matter anymore. Big corporations and special interest groups run the country now- and the world. With populations projected to decline over the coming decades, the elites are much more interested in keeping everyone alive for as long as possible to fuel the global economy. Trump is a dinosaur that gets in the way- simple as and whether he gets into office again or not is actually irrelevant in the overall scheme. Main concern is how to handle China- a wild card and threat to the global establishment. Trump serves one purpose- he's a convenient diversion/excuse. We'll never see meaningful campaign reform or anything like it that potentially could staunch the flow of capital straight into the one percent's accounts.

 

*This is just my opinion*