HeyYou Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 8 hours ago, dw420 said: The problem is not whether you or I are indeed Beth apologists when saying "modders will fix it". The problem is that this idea has been propagated to the extent where game reviews give Beth games high scores because "modders will fix it" ..and Beth puts less and less effort into QC (compared to the money/time spent for each game) than what any other company would. I don't blame the people reviewing, that are essentially telling the reader to buy broken games because captain modder will come to the rescue, because after 20 years of "the modders will fix it" , there's a generation of gamers that thinks that it's normal practice. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. The "meh" that nowadays comes before "modders will fix it". Bug that has carried over from FO3 to Stafield ? Here's 2 off the top of my head: Dead bodies can get catapulted on Kill because ...reasons. Loading in a cell can result in all "junk" to bounce off its intended placement position because...reasons. Ps. when i said "no, modders won't fix it" i was using exaggeration in order to drive the point home, not trying to make a statement of fact... After all...I am AverageJoe making xedit mods on Nexus and to a certain degree I am fixing Beths game. Pps. I don't use the Steam forums, but if the same arguments have been hashed and re-hashed over there as you say...that should give you a hint that there is foundation to them. What i do know for sure is that your (or mine for that matter) personal experience and rig performance is not the average experience /rig performance. This isn't Xbox or Playstation. Your mileage is your mileage ONLY and when a sea of people complains about an issue, what happened to you (or me) is 100% IRRELEVANT. I'm glad you've had no issues but that doesn't negate all the issues other people have had. The game runs better than any other Beth game on day 1..sure. But Beth isn't as inexperienced as when they released those games...nor did they have MS force them to do QC back then or the same budget and as much staff. So excuse me if i don't compare lists of bugs...its because it proves absolutely nothing. 4 months in and Beth hasn't fixed the broken Engine recipes in the ShipBuilderMenu ...the kind of 0 effort stuff other AAA companies fix on their day 1 patch. And you want to sit here and argue about me needing to post proof that things are going downhill in terms of how Beth essentially sees us. Funny stuff. I have no issue about you dismissing anything i say unless i prove it as fact...but bare in mind that the same goes for everything you've claimed that is based on anecdotes, feelings , premonitions and hunches of yours..it works both ways. You can't sit here and demand proof when you can provide none that things will go as you predict/wish. There are minor bugs in previous beth games they never bothered to fix as well. Starfield isn't any better, or worse, than any of those. Now, the fact that they took an additional year to 'polish' the game, yet we still see bugs of this nature? Yeah, I really don't think much of their QC..... I am sure the one guy trying to play the game on his windows 98 machine genuinely tried to document bugs.... but, Word crashed, and he lost that document. Physics issues in a beth game... Yep. That one has been there forever. But, that is Havoc.... and I am not entirely sure Beth even has the ABILITY to fix that..... Some of the issues that folks are having are self-inflicted. (note: SOME of them, yes, the game does seem to choke on some hardware combinations.) Trying to play the game on below spec machines, running it off a mechanical HDD, tons of Windows startup programs, etc. A frequent complaint I see at work is "The machine is slow." on hardware that shouldn't be..... only to find three different A/V programs running, along with a selection of 'driver updater' apps, etc etc. One customer had no less than SIX instances of "One Launch" starting with windows...... Some of the stuff I see at work, just makes me shake my head... And some of the "free" A/V packages? (and some of the subscription fellers too....) They have more processes starting with windows, than HP does with their bloatware. It's insane. How often do drivers need updated? (a lot of 'em check every 15 friggin minutes) How often do drives need to be cleaned/defragged? Etc. Software updated. And a whole host of other crap, that "looks" like a good idea, but, in actual practice, does more harm than good. A fair bit of the time, users are their own worst enemy. But, that's the problem with PC gaming. No two systems, even with the EXACT same hardware, will have the same configuration. (one of the reasons I have a minimalist approach to what's running on my machine.) I tend to take what folks are saying on forums, Especially Steam forums.... with bit (lot) of salt. Steam forums for Starfield are downright toxic. the trolls outnumber the gamers by a good margin..... and the sentiment there is reflected in the reviews the game is getting. Most of what they whine about are things that didn't meet their own (unrealistic) expectations. There are some folks with genuine issues, but, on Steam forums, they are the tiny minority, amongst the huge crowds of 'haters' for lack of a better term. Look at the forums here.... Nexus has almost as many members as steam at this point, yet you rarely see a thread he seeking help with the game. (aside from installing mods, and making them work..... ) I don't go to beth forums anymore, as they don't exist..... and I also do not visit the beth discord, as that just isn't my scene. I like forums. Not chat. So I have no idea what all is going on over there..... But anyway... Yep, beth released what is widely viewed as a real stinker of a game..... and so far, they really don't seem to be doing much about it. And folks are pissed. Its too late to change course on Starfield, but, are folks going to be as willing to fork out money for their NEXT game? Their strategy there is likely something to the effect of "It'll be several years before we come out with another game, and this will all be forgotten, and the sheep will still flock to us with their pre-orders." And THAT is why I don't really expect anything to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dw420 Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 58 minutes ago, HeyYou said: "It'll be several years before we come out with another game, and this will all be forgotten, and the sheep will still flock to us with their pre-orders." ...Yeah. I guess my whole attitude comes from the same realisation. I've felt for years that if we (as consumers) keep on buying the FIFAs , 2ks and Starfields...we're screwed. And since no outside party is going to give us the hairdryer treatment , because it suits them better as is..I'm vending in public. I just wish there was a way to slap some sense back into the gamers <self included, i'm guilty of buying A LOT of games on release day due to sheer excitement> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 36 minutes ago, dw420 said: ...Yeah. I guess my whole attitude comes from the same realisation. I've felt for years that if we (as consumers) keep on buying the FIFAs , 2ks and Starfields...we're screwed. And since no outside party is going to give us the hairdryer treatment , because it suits them better as is..I'm vending in public. I just wish there was a way to slap some sense back into the gamers <self included, i'm guilty of buying A LOT of games on release day due to sheer excitement> The trouble is, for ever one gamer that takes a stand, there are a thousand that don't, and even the crappiest of games sell "well". So, basically, we're screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matilija Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 There are no doubt issues with this game that should be addressed, Beth has stated that they plan to have a patch every ~6 weeks this year, hopefully they stick to that plan and actually fix things, I'll give them until April to prove they actually intend to maintain this game, and if they fulfill their end of the bargain, I'll probably stick with it and continue to mod it to my hearts content, if they fail to live up to their announced plans, then I'll probably move on and not look back. That said, despite all of their flaws, I've spent more time playing various BGS RPG's than any other franchise save World of Warcraft which might just edge them out in total play time. I don't think I could honestly say I'm not still interested in the types of games BGS offers, but what I wouldn't give for another studio to offer a similar style of open world game that is better polished that also gets the mod support that every BGS game gets. I'm thinking Warhorse Studios KCD but with real modding support. If that happened, BGS would have no choice but to either improve, or fail imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 29 minutes ago, matilija said: There are no doubt issues with this game that should be addressed, Beth has stated that they plan to have a patch every ~6 weeks this year, hopefully they stick to that plan and actually fix things, I'll give them until April to prove they actually intend to maintain this game, and if they fulfill their end of the bargain, I'll probably stick with it and continue to mod it to my hearts content, if they fail to live up to their announced plans, then I'll probably move on and not look back. That said, despite all of their flaws, I've spent more time playing various BGS RPG's than any other franchise save World of Warcraft which might just edge them out in total play time. I don't think I could honestly say I'm not still interested in the types of games BGS offers, but what I wouldn't give for another studio to offer a similar style of open world game that is better polished that also gets the mod support that every BGS game gets. I'm thinking Warhorse Studios KCD but with real modding support. If that happened, BGS would have no choice but to either improve, or fail imho. And I think you just nailed the largest part of the problem. Beth really doesn't have any real competition in this segment..... Hence, they can get away with things, that other companies can't. (as they actually HAVE real competitors....) But, I don't see any indie game studio being able to come up with something similar... at least, not without writing their own game engine, and creating their own development tools... And that is a HUGE investment, that you can't afford, UNLESS you have some major corporation backing you. And that would defeat the entire purpose of having an indie studio doing it. (not chained to ESG scores, and being politically correct.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matilija Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 minute ago, HeyYou said: And I think you just nailed the largest part of the problem. Beth really doesn't have any real competition in this segment..... Hence, they can get away with things, that other companies can't. (as they actually HAVE real competitors....) But, I don't see any indie game studio being able to come up with something similar... at least, not without writing their own game engine, and creating their own development tools... And that is a HUGE investment, that you can't afford, UNLESS you have some major corporation backing you. And that would defeat the entire purpose of having an indie studio doing it. (not chained to ESG scores, and being politically correct.) Yeah, I was just using KCD as an example, because honestly, when I played it I got really big Oblivion Vibes sans the magic, but the story was way better written and voice acted, and the game was infinitely more polished, but unfortunately it never had the modding support to really compete with what BGS had released years earlier in both Oblivion and Skyrim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrayy Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 i hope bethesda realizes that they (not unpayed modders) have to do a lot of homework! but it seems they are still not fully aware of that... realizing their own responsibility as the game studio in charge for a working game concept should be the first step in the right direction. additional modding and update support is surely welcome but in my opinion it will not work as a full solution for this game in the current state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyYou Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 9 hours ago, xrayy said: i hope bethesda realizes that they (not unpayed modders) have to do a lot of homework! but it seems they are still not fully aware of that... arguing with hopes for modding support or realizing their own responsibility as the game studio in charge for a working game concept would be the step in the right direction. additional modding and update support is surely welcome but in my opinion it will not work as a full solution for this game in the current state! No, it won't. That's one of the reasons the CK isn't out yet. Now, lets see if beth actually FIXES a bunch of their goofs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
an0nym0uz Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 On 1/1/2024 at 6:02 PM, HeyYou said: The trouble is, for ever one gamer that takes a stand, there are a thousand that don't, and even the crappiest of games sell "well". So, basically, we're screwed. so true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFallofApril Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 The number of mods already went down from over a thousand a week to under 100. That is a massive decrease. Still there are great mods being released on a weekly basis that fix many annoying things in the base game. They just don´t get much attention due to the relatively small user base the game still has. Four months after release the biggest game of 2023 (at least in terms of marketing, hype, expectations) hardly has over 15.000 players on Steam. The two best ways to increase the player numbers again is a steep discoint (the game is already available for under 40 €/$) and working extremely hard, patching the game, releasing new features and giving the fan base the feeling that the devs actually care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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