HollownessDevoured Posted March 27, 2024 Share Posted March 27, 2024 (edited) On 3/27/2024 at 11:39 AM, mfPixel said: Hey @HollownessDevoured I'm the design lead at Nexus Mods. Thank you for all the feedback, we appreciate that big changes can take time to bed in. We're always take feedback onboard, but product design is a complex process of balancing various user needs and it's not always possible to design for everyone's preferences. That said, I can address a few of your concerns: The larger tile size is a result of improving the hierarchy and legibility of the tiles. The old designs contained a dense amount of small text, which is difficult to read. The new designs with the improved contrast and structure make this more accessible to browse. We feel 4 tiles per row is fine for the majority of people. As for the colour changes, again this is aimed at improving contrast and readability for visually impaired users. We don’t use #000000 or #FFFFFF anywhere on the site for the reasons you mentioned, but the new design will help users who struggled with the previous theme’s shades of grey, which was difficult to read for a lot of people. We’re also looking to improve how we handle tile images, it’s worth noting that the previous design cropped images to make them fit which would impact how users intended them to be seen. We have a change coming to make them sit better on the tile. I hope this explains some of the decision making rationale. Expand Thank you for at least addressing these issues. That can be accomplished by zoom, so you are fine denying a better 5 tile across browse (for those trying to get efficiency) because people do not know how to zoom on their browser? I zoom out further on classic, but that is a personal preference I can adjust on my own. I prefer 3 tiles but that is a personal preference but that is a personal preference I can adjust on my own. But taking away the 5th tile you are deciding for everyone, despite people able to zoom in if you did add in the 5th tile, to get 4/3/2/1 tiles depending how far you zoom in and adjust your window. I'd highly recommend you reconsider your design choice. I am not asking for the greyscale, I am saying refrain from High Contrast for those who actually stare at the site for hours at a time. You can still provide a higher contrast than the greyscale for example the forum background is less intense. High Contrast actually causes eye strain, I spend hours editing mod pages and article, I would actual have to stop modding (on nexus) with that high of a contrast due to discomfort. I use to have to work on a internal bank system with High Contrast contrast with oversized font and it was very hard on my eyes, so bad I started wearing old prescription glasses to reduce the strain. Consider the other side: pain for some people verses some people can see it best at High Contrast contrast. But if you are not even going to meet in the middle with a compromise I better finish up my projects before beta is site wide, because my eyes won't be able to take the site after the site is fully High Contrast on mod pages/articles. More high active modders may not notice how straining High Contrast editing is now but at hours at a time when it is on mod pages/articles they probably will. So you might get a second wave of complaints then. edit: except for the low quality of the image here (sorry from an old image I used already in the thread) and I did 20% reduction (because the tiles in beta are so oversized), I think it would still more than legible enough if set to 10% reduction instead of my examples 20% reduction and still fit 5 tiles. If not, when the beta expands to search/game mod pages listings; you might get people rioting losing that 5th tile. Edited March 27, 2024 by HollownessDevoured grammar fixes, sentence structure fixes, replaced #000000/#FFFFFF with the term High Contrast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollownessDevoured Posted March 27, 2024 Share Posted March 27, 2024 On 3/27/2024 at 2:15 PM, IsharaMeradin said: Why the wasted real estate at the top to the right of the profile picture? Is something planed for there that has not yet been shared? Expand I assume personal header. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staff Iluviel Posted March 27, 2024 Staff Share Posted March 27, 2024 On 3/27/2024 at 2:55 PM, HollownessDevoured said: Thank you for at least addressing these issues. That can be accomplished by zoom, so you are fine denying a better 5 tile across browse (for those trying to get efficiency) because people do not know how to zoom on their browser? I zoom out further on classic, but that is a personal preference I can adjust on my own. I prefer 3 tiles but that is a personal preference but that is a personal preference I can adjust on my own. But taking away the 5th tile you are deciding for everyone, despite people able to zoom in if you did add in the 5th tile, to get 4/3/2/1 tiles depending how far you zoom in and adjust your window. I'd highly recommend you reconsider your design choice. I am not asking for the greyscale, I am saying refrain from #000000/#FFFFFF for those who actually stare at the site for hours at a time. You can still provide a higher contrast than the greyscale for example the forum background is less intense. #000000/#FFFFFF actually causes eye strain, I spend hours editing mod pages and article, I would actual have to stop modding (on nexus) with that high of a contrast due to discomfort. I use to have to work on a internal bank system with #000000/#FFFFFF contrast with oversized font and it was very hard on my eyes, so bad I started wearing old prescription glasses to reduce the strain. Consider the other side: pain for some people verses some people can see it best at #000000/#FFFFFF contrast. But if you are not even going to meet in the middle with a compromise I better finish up my projects before beta is site wide, because my eyes won't be able to take the site after the site is fully #000000/#FFFFFF on mod pages/articles. More high active modders may not notice how straining #000000/#FFFFFF editing is now but at hours at a time when it is on mod pages/articles they probably will. So you might get a second wave of complaints then. Expand Yes, we have decided that 4 tiles is a better experience than 5. We have read the feedback around this and have no plans to reconsider our choice at this time. As confirmed by @mfPixel, we do not use #000000/#FFFFFF anywhere on the site. I do not want to presume that you missed it in their reply, but to be absolutely sure I've included a quote below: Quote We don’t use #000000 or #FFFFFF anywhere on the site Expand I'm not too sure where the confusion around contrast ratio is coming from, but the new profile page does not use #000000/#FFFFFF and it is starting to feel counter-productive to keep insisting that it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollownessDevoured Posted March 27, 2024 Share Posted March 27, 2024 (edited) @Iluviel When I inspected the page CSS it had indicated #000000/#FFFFFF, sorry if that isn't the case. But the bottom line is too much of a contrast for my eyes. If nexus cannot accommodate eye comfort for active modders in the beta's current colour theme, who stare at the screen for hours at a time, then you are simply unwelcoming those who cannot handle that level of contrast. Edit: and that is said by an avid dark mode user. edit, edit: even today's higher contrast forums theme update is already starting to on set a headache for me or it's maybe the total lack of empathy I am getting from staff. But "I get it" I am just one but I doubt I am the only, I just have experienced the pain and strain of this high contrast page editing. Will it be a minority? possibly, but will they mostly be modders? I have a feeling it will be. I am all day/night on my computer, and at this time mostly on nexus/nexus forums. I am giving you the feedback you are probably going to get from others; when it is moved to mod pages/articles—just early. I am not demanding it—I am highly suggesting it. I also think it is in your/the site's best interest in the long run. I am also pointing it out loudly, repetitively and firmly since I had to to finally get a response. You clearly can do what you want. @mfPixel edit, edit, edit: all those who have so far complained about the too dark/high contrast (excluding me). Which including mention of hurting eyes and those with existing eye/vision issues: Reveal hidden contents On 2/28/2024 at 8:01 PM, Shaysjhyar said: Hi, I like the new layout but the color scheme is hurting my eyes and I can barely read anything, the font is too bright on the darker background, the old/current color scheme for the mod pages is way more readable and easy on the eye. Is a light mode on the table? Expand On 2/28/2024 at 10:41 PM, desertsandfeelswarmatnight said: i hate to be like this but i don't like this at all. my first impression was that it looks straight up copied from another gross mod website. idk the rules so i won't name the website i'll just say it starts with an s, but their profiles page looks identical and it's weirding me out. also i think it's too dark. the classic page was a nice gray but this new one hurts my eyes, hopefully a lighter mode will be added. if there will be a way to change back to classic mode whenever you want to once this releases that would be really wonderful Expand On 2/29/2024 at 1:06 AM, polymorphic2346 said: I enjoyed the new layout. However as a dyslexic, I have trouble reading on such a high contrast. A slight adjustment can maintain a high contrast for those who need and/or enjoy it, but make life easier for folks like me, as well as for those who experience frequent eye strain. For example, I changed the background from 09090b to 19191c and experienced fewer visual errors. I attached pictures of the edits, as eyedroppers aren't always accurate. This effect can also be achieved by tweaking text colors, but you may find that to be more complicated than simply adjusting the background. Thanks for requesting feedback. Cheers! Expand On 2/29/2024 at 7:26 AM, Basil44 said: I have one request - can't you add 2-3 grayscale colors to the theme design? To have light gray and dark gray in addition to black background? Expand On 2/29/2024 at 2:33 PM, ChakraSSE said: Gave me a stroke, instantly reverted Expand On 2/29/2024 at 3:59 PM, commanderstrawberry said: In general I am not a fan, it looks dark and squeezed horizontally compared to the old one with overlarge text. I hope an option of a 'classic theme' is added. Expand On 3/1/2024 at 4:41 PM, tsptds said: I think you are trying to match the collections page style, though the overall design feels claustrophobic to me. Author profile should be smaller, or should be kept at the top as the current page. Right now old design looks more compact. Can't say i'm a fan of the pitch black background either. Color themes in the future? Having a game's picture as background should stay for game pages imo, keeping some space to the borders of the page was great. I can understand why you may want to remove them from profiles though. Expand On 3/1/2024 at 4:46 PM, Qrsr said: Overall the UI looks horrible BIG and to dark, use the old style and build up on it. Its not so difficult to implement wouldnt take longer than a couple of hours... Expand On 3/5/2024 at 5:24 PM, dpillari said: also return the color format to the standard site grey. the user profile is too dark, and off-putting. really if you could put the about me pages close to the original design as possible. Expand On 3/6/2024 at 1:26 PM, LenaWolfBravil said: As it is, the page on the forum side is much better. It is on grey background rather than black (doesn't hurt the eyes with extreme contrast) and also the fonts are balanced as opposed to the new Beta on the mod side. Expand On 3/26/2024 at 11:20 PM, NexBeth said: The color of the current Mods website is a medium-ish grey and is pretty easy on the eyes. Especially when putting together a very detailed time-consuming mod page. I'd probably go cross-eyed using the black pages used on the beta profile. Thankfully, I just finished up the page for a mod I plan to soon release before any blackhole changes. Expand On 3/27/2024 at 7:44 AM, shazdeh2 said: Please add a light/dark toggle switch. Not just for the sake of preference, but accessibility. For me bright text on dark background is physically painful to read. Expand Edited March 28, 2024 by HollownessDevoured 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollownessDevoured Posted March 27, 2024 Share Posted March 27, 2024 (edited) On 3/27/2024 at 7:44 AM, shazdeh2 said: Please add a light/dark toggle switch. Not just for the sake of preference, but accessibility. For me bright text on dark background is physically painful to read. Expand I am trying to advocate against this high contrast but I think we need more people to show this causes discomfort. I don't know if light mode would work, since they may give a white version of high contrast eye pain instead Edited March 27, 2024 by HollownessDevoured 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefttounge Posted March 27, 2024 Share Posted March 27, 2024 I have another issue with the "improvement" in the beta. I have absolutely no idea what the gender of a user is. So I can't tell if I'm talking to a male, or talking to a female. I know we live in the woke apocalypse and all that, and I'm not here to attack 'wokeness'. The reason why it's user gender is an important feature to display a user's gender, is so a user can adjust their messages accordingly. I wouldn't go, "yo, what's up, dude?" to a female user. I'd go, "hey, how's it going." so that I'm not rude. I actually had an issue years ago with my friend zzjay, when she helped me making a mod. I thought she was a male, and so I referred to her as such in the description page when I was giving a shout out. A mod user had to comment that she was a she. It was pretty embarrassing, and very cumbersome. Please re-add that feature somewhere on the user profile? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollownessDevoured Posted March 27, 2024 Share Posted March 27, 2024 (edited) @lefttounge At least as an option. I know reddit removed them because of "issues" and many people were happy to see it go. But I get mistaken for a guy almost my entire online life. "Cool, thanks bro" makes me cringe LOL. edit: I also had to recently gender correct an administrator who was trying to promote me in a wiki. Edited March 27, 2024 by HollownessDevoured 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefttounge Posted March 27, 2024 Share Posted March 27, 2024 On 3/27/2024 at 8:06 PM, HollownessDevoured said: @lefttounge At least as an option. I know reddit removed them because of "issues" and many people were happy to see it go. But I get mistaken for a guy almost my entire online life. "Cool, thanks bro" makes me cringe LOL. edit: I also had to recently gender correct an administrator who was trying to promote me in a wiki. Expand This is EXCATLY! See where I come from, we don't refer to women as men, its considered rude. So I'd get scolded for doing that. I know I've had a couple of people once in a blue moon actually think I'm a female. XD I had to tell them I'm a dude. I just like Nevada the yakuza because she's hot. At least have it in where somebody must choose either male, female, or prefer not say. We're not using nexus as a dating simulator, but it's a cultural thing that I need to know how to properly address users on the site. As for reddit, that place is all jacked up, there's no saving that sad site, it has issues everywhere, but that's a story for another time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollownessDevoured Posted March 27, 2024 Share Posted March 27, 2024 On 3/27/2024 at 8:14 PM, lefttounge said: This is EXCATLY! See where I come from, we don't refer to women as men, its considered rude. So I'd get scolded for doing that. I know I've had a couple of people once in a blue moon actually think I'm a female. XD I had to tell them I'm a dude. I just like Nevada the yakuza because she's hot. At least have it in where somebody must choose either male, female, or prefer not say. We're not using nexus as a dating simulator, but it's a cultural thing that I need to know how to properly address users on the site. As for reddit, that place is all jacked up, there's no saving that sad site, it has issues everywhere, but that's a story for another time Expand I mean I have been online for so much of my life I don't spaz at anyone for getting it wrong. I guess my name sounds male but it has a long history I won't get into. I try to assume everyone online has no gender till I find out for sure, just to be safe XD Yeah, I hardly go/went on there and only started the past several years anyways. Just long enough to see once they displayed my gender and then next they removed it LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lefttounge Posted March 27, 2024 Share Posted March 27, 2024 @HollownessDevoured Well, and this is now off topic, overall the website is fascist in its ideals; you can't say anything that goes against what the 'community or /r' believes, or else you'll have your comment removed. The definition of fascism: Reveal hidden contents characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.[2][3] That is exactly what reddit is, and does. You have to agree wholly with whatever topic is presented. Any attempt to comment in a way that others don't agree, will have your comment thumbs down to high hell. A moderator will come in, and remove your comment for "failing to meet the community guidelines" which is just shorthand for, it fails to meet our ideals. Honestly, this site is tripped out, it really is stuck in the 1940s. Again, this is off topic, but it has to be said somewhere that reddit is a true story of a dystopian 1984 future, where libertarianism is used for all the wrong reasons, and ideals and concepts are kept in a vaccum, where only certain parties are allowed to comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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