Valve/Bethesda announce paid modding for Skyrim, more games to follow

[Dovahkulas]

Steam workshop became so greedy!

We will NOT pay for mods!

 

https://www.change.org/p/valve-remove-the-paid-content-of-the-steam-workshop

 

Petition against paid mods! Paying for mods is unacceptable

Sticking with the Nexus! <3<3

Edited April 25, 2015 by Dovahkulas

[zlostnypopolnik]

Apollo Down is down - This mod is hidden in protest of SkyUI 5.0 going behind a paywall. Great, just great. I have only one wish before I die, I want to see all the banks, money and riches in fire. Let´s fall back into the stone age, because our evolution is failed.

[Laxe]

Am i the only one that thinks the 'but i spent so much time on it so i deserve a lot of money for it' argument silly as hell?

 

Most of the mods don't add even 0.1% of gameplay what full games released at 50$ offer yet expect for their mods up to 10$?

[Rohok]

So if a mod is released that's free, that requires another mod that's for pay- We have to buy another mod we don't want to pay money for simply because it's locked behind a pay wall? I just don't understand how anybody could possibly support this move. I just don't. Eventually everybody will have to pay if you want to enjoy modifying your game. Bethesda games are worthless without mods. I didn't even play Skyrim until they released the mod kit. Mods will no longer share creative ideas and assets because people who can earn money from something will want to protect that as closely as possible. There's nothing good that can come from this, please stop being naive.

[theblueshark]

In response to post #24608634. #24609314, #24612079, #24612614, #24613089, #24618249, #24624044, #24624654, #24627164, #24627384, #24633109 are all replies on the same post.

iiiimessiahiiii wrote:

foster xbl wrote: I simply do not see it that way, here's a quick example:

Nock to Tip, the last mod I released, before taking a break from modding.
was a well received project. I spent over a month developing it, and countless
more hours refining it. It is far from perfect, and still has a couple bugs/balance issues.
But quite frankly I got tired of tweaking it over and over. Now when I return to actively
modding Skyrim, I will work more on these issues. But I do not feel obligated to do so, until I'm good and ready, If I had a more vested interest in the project, it would've been a better mod. The same goes for anybody doing anything, if an author has a vested interest in a project, (such as the possibility for compensation ) it will improve the quality of a project.

But again this is speculation.

freedom613 wrote: @Foster

Is money the only motivation though? I do not mod for Skyrim, I am however a Minecraft Map Maker which is about the same: we both create free content for the community. Like other modders, I have never recieved a cent for my work however I am still motivated to make maps since I release maps I want to play on. If I already made the map for me, why not release it to the community?

Money is a good incentive, but the majority of modding has been free since the 1990s. Why should we break the machine that has worked since the time when there was a Soviet Union? This workshop update has done nothing but harm: fragmented the community, killed support for Bethesda, and made Valve look like villians trying to pull the wool over our eyes saying this is to support the mod makers.

foster xbl wrote: Is money the only motivation? No, of course not and like you, I make for myself first, then share what I've created. I've modded for 15+ years, and money has never been an issue.
Moving forward, it is something I will now consider though.

freedom613 wrote: If you want money as your motiviation, well I cannot stop you. What Valve has done to the community here though is unforgivable. The irony of having a civil war in a game about a civil war...

I will ask though: Is it worth the small cut from Valve to be part of this schism? If you are going to sell your mods, might as well do it on your own site and get the full cut instead of a quarter.

Then again, I know nothing about modding Skyrim so maybe it is worth the 25%. My map mods are me just messing around with Terrain Control, takes me about a week to make one (two if I go with custom biomes) so money isn't worth it for that.

foster xbl wrote: The point I'm trying to make, is why does this have to be such a big deal, or "schism" as you called it. What I so wrong or shameful about it?

Bobothedinosaur wrote: It seems like at best it may create another system that rewards flooding of small mods for money. At worst- it may severely degrade the community as it is now and we may not see great, expansive massively multi-functional mods when people want to avoid others' work or keep theirs from being sold.

I wish I could think that modders being guaranteed pay for a download would guarantee improvement and bug-fix but more likely the case will be the opposite, that fewer modders will be downloading and using the new version which could possibly lead to outside improvements.

TheknightofRand wrote: to answer you foster there is no conflict or schism. It is simple people who want something for nothing and have gotten it for a long time and that something is being threatened. am not an author but the claim that authors don't deserve anything is insane and the more common donate rational is even worse, considering that an extreme minority of authors receive donations. There is one side of this debate that is saying options are beneficial and another whose argument amounts to "I am entitled to free mods, because that is the way it has always been." This argument fails for two reasons. First that is not the way it has always been and there has been a monetized workshop for games like DOTA 2 for a while. Second, tradition alone is not persuasive especially when that tradition saw a benefit to labor ratio I extreme favor of the consumer vs. the creator. In conclusion if you want to charge for your mod do so and good luck. A good product certainly dictates a good reward. If you want to keep you product free, good luck to you as well. Though I think it is fair to say if each province of Beyond Skyrim were released for 10-20 bucks they would work a lot faster and we would see a product of like quality sooner, because money is important and devoting time, your most precious resource, with only intangible reward is disheartening.

Joeblivion wrote: @TheKnightofRand

"Though I think it is fair to say if each province of Beyond Skyrim were released for 10-20 bucks they would work a lot faster and we would see a product of like quality sooner, because money is important and devoting time, your most precious resource, with only intangible reward is disheartening."

While I have a lot of problems with most of what you posted, this one stuck out to me the most.

Do you know what other company creates content with the promise of compensation?

Bethesda does and it dictates a lot of what they have done in the past, including what has happened very recently.

So many companies will rush out products, well before they are completely bug tested in the hopes of capitalizing on the hype frenzies they spend so much money on in order to create the maximum amount of revenue. This is what they care about, not about the state of the game, but about how much cash they feel they can get upon release.

I also find it concerning that you feel intangible rewards like respect, adoration, desire to improve, are all 'disheartening' when it comes to reasons for mod makers to continue modding.

I cannot help but feel you put an overemphasis on the importance of the dollar.

The dollar is important, yet it does not promote creativity like having a genuine passion for something.

You claim there is no schism. Care to explain what will happen when mod makers have to choose between charging for their mods on the Steam workshop or letting them be free on the Nexus? I suppose a mod maker could post their mod on both, yet that would be self defeating.

You are correct in that our freedom to download created content from modders has been a given for a very long time and is now being threatened. I do not feel that you are correctly representing the community when you claim that we feel that modders are entitled to NOTHING for their contributions to the modding community.

"We" (and I assume this includes you if you have EVER downloaded any mods for free) download mods from makers to improve our experience and in return we pay for that with admiration for the mod makers.

I have a list of mod makers who have made my favorite mods and I adore them all. (Was really saddened when I heard what happened to Chesko, an author to one of my fav mods ever)

You displaying us as ungrateful, free-loaders is pretty offensive, especially since YOU are among our community.

We are not stating that modders do not have a right to monetize their mods. They have every right.

We are just expressing our right to criticize this idea and how it could have terrible ramifications for the future of the modding community for Skyrim.

You then go on to compare the monetization of Skyrim to DOTA 2 and state that," What works for one will DEFINITELY work for the other."

Then you try to achieve some neutral landing pad by stating that it is the right of the modder to choose what they want to do, which ironically we also agree with.

We are trying to preserve our mod using freedom that we have had since Morrowind and beyond. We do not want everything for nothing. We appreciate and love our mod makers. We just don't want to have to give up appreciating their work because Valve and Beth want to cash in on their labors.

popcorn71 wrote:

sovs wrote: How is that any different from the sea of garbage floating around on steam already ?

I had more fun with indie titles in the last couple of years than with any triple A titles (Paradox and Bethesda excluded).

as a long time modder but not for skyrim I'm afraid; I still say money does not make quality output, more often than not it draws out the opposite. money creates rushed quality work and its more stressful for the modder. You'll get bashed and rushed for patches/fixes and you cant say no to it since its paid for or you'll end up like a greedy ***. to compensate with the demand you'll be making quick fixes for your game/Mod which in return creates more bugs and more problems. If you decide to leave you cant pass the project to anyone without paying them first unless you're lucky.

Free mods on the other hand you can take your time in making them. people would be more helpful and appreciative and would share inputs/Ideas to make it better . they'd scream and post less offensive words. You can move to any project at any time. to top it all off if you decide to leave some interested people would/might take over the project and you can see it grow.

So for me I still say that money will make fast but crappy mods while free mods well it might take time but the output is always better more often than not. If you don't believe me try it and find out for yourself don't say I didn't warn you.

regarding downloaders wanting something for nothing. They didn't do nothing they helped you develop it. You used their input, their ideas. your's was good but they made it better.


just to add.. there will always be that one guy that would make a free knockoff versions of your project. Edited April 25, 2015 by theblueshark

[Ianc1]

Dark0ne and nexus team.

 

I want to know what the future will hold for this site, you have said that you will keep it free for us, but what about the threat of the rights holders. Take for example the pirate sites or filelockers that were hit in the past years for allowing piracy, they allowed people to download for FREE but the money people did not like that and forced the goverments to take action. Now you have valve and the game devs wanting modders and allowing them to make some money, but what happens when they decide that THIS site which allows people to download for FREE is bad for them, will this site become a pirate site and get blocked or the modders here get arrested and charged for allowing piracy or a lost sale like the riaa and mpaa keep saying about FREE sites.

[sovs]

In response to post #24608634. #24609314, #24612079, #24612614, #24613089, #24618249, #24624044, #24624654, #24627164, #24627384, #24632869 are all replies on the same post.

iiiimessiahiiii wrote:

foster xbl wrote: I simply do not see it that way, here's a quick example:

Nock to Tip, the last mod I released, before taking a break from modding.
was a well received project. I spent over a month developing it, and countless
more hours refining it. It is far from perfect, and still has a couple bugs/balance issues.
But quite frankly I got tired of tweaking it over and over. Now when I return to actively
modding Skyrim, I will work more on these issues. But I do not feel obligated to do so, until I'm good and ready, If I had a more vested interest in the project, it would've been a better mod. The same goes for anybody doing anything, if an author has a vested interest in a project, (such as the possibility for compensation ) it will improve the quality of a project.

But again this is speculation.

freedom613 wrote: @Foster

Is money the only motivation though? I do not mod for Skyrim, I am however a Minecraft Map Maker which is about the same: we both create free content for the community. Like other modders, I have never recieved a cent for my work however I am still motivated to make maps since I release maps I want to play on. If I already made the map for me, why not release it to the community?

Money is a good incentive, but the majority of modding has been free since the 1990s. Why should we break the machine that has worked since the time when there was a Soviet Union? This workshop update has done nothing but harm: fragmented the community, killed support for Bethesda, and made Valve look like villians trying to pull the wool over our eyes saying this is to support the mod makers.

foster xbl wrote: Is money the only motivation? No, of course not and like you, I make for myself first, then share what I've created. I've modded for 15+ years, and money has never been an issue.
Moving forward, it is something I will now consider though.

freedom613 wrote: If you want money as your motiviation, well I cannot stop you. What Valve has done to the community here though is unforgivable. The irony of having a civil war in a game about a civil war...

I will ask though: Is it worth the small cut from Valve to be part of this schism? If you are going to sell your mods, might as well do it on your own site and get the full cut instead of a quarter.

Then again, I know nothing about modding Skyrim so maybe it is worth the 25%. My map mods are me just messing around with Terrain Control, takes me about a week to make one (two if I go with custom biomes) so money isn't worth it for that.

foster xbl wrote: The point I'm trying to make, is why does this have to be such a big deal, or "schism" as you called it. What I so wrong or shameful about it?

Bobothedinosaur wrote: It seems like at best it may create another system that rewards flooding of small mods for money. At worst- it may severely degrade the community as it is now and we may not see great, expansive massively multi-functional mods when people want to avoid others' work or keep theirs from being sold.

I wish I could think that modders being guaranteed pay for a download would guarantee improvement and bug-fix but more likely the case will be the opposite, that fewer modders will be downloading and using the new version which could possibly lead to outside improvements.

TheknightofRand wrote: to answer you foster there is no conflict or schism. It is simple people who want something for nothing and have gotten it for a long time and that something is being threatened. am not an author but the claim that authors don't deserve anything is insane and the more common donate rational is even worse, considering that an extreme minority of authors receive donations. There is one side of this debate that is saying options are beneficial and another whose argument amounts to "I am entitled to free mods, because that is the way it has always been." This argument fails for two reasons. First that is not the way it has always been and there has been a monetized workshop for games like DOTA 2 for a while. Second, tradition alone is not persuasive especially when that tradition saw a benefit to labor ratio I extreme favor of the consumer vs. the creator. In conclusion if you want to charge for your mod do so and good luck. A good product certainly dictates a good reward. If you want to keep you product free, good luck to you as well. Though I think it is fair to say if each province of Beyond Skyrim were released for 10-20 bucks they would work a lot faster and we would see a product of like quality sooner, because money is important and devoting time, your most precious resource, with only intangible reward is disheartening.

Joeblivion wrote: @TheKnightofRand

"Though I think it is fair to say if each province of Beyond Skyrim were released for 10-20 bucks they would work a lot faster and we would see a product of like quality sooner, because money is important and devoting time, your most precious resource, with only intangible reward is disheartening."

While I have a lot of problems with most of what you posted, this one stuck out to me the most.

Do you know what other company creates content with the promise of compensation?

Bethesda does and it dictates a lot of what they have done in the past, including what has happened very recently.

So many companies will rush out products, well before they are completely bug tested in the hopes of capitalizing on the hype frenzies they spend so much money on in order to create the maximum amount of revenue. This is what they care about, not about the state of the game, but about how much cash they feel they can get upon release.

I also find it concerning that you feel intangible rewards like respect, adoration, desire to improve, are all 'disheartening' when it comes to reasons for mod makers to continue modding.

I cannot help but feel you put an overemphasis on the importance of the dollar.

The dollar is important, yet it does not promote creativity like having a genuine passion for something.

You claim there is no schism. Care to explain what will happen when mod makers have to choose between charging for their mods on the Steam workshop or letting them be free on the Nexus? I suppose a mod maker could post their mod on both, yet that would be self defeating.

You are correct in that our freedom to download created content from modders has been a given for a very long time and is now being threatened. I do not feel that you are correctly representing the community when you claim that we feel that modders are entitled to NOTHING for their contributions to the modding community.

"We" (and I assume this includes you if you have EVER downloaded any mods for free) download mods from makers to improve our experience and in return we pay for that with admiration for the mod makers.

I have a list of mod makers who have made my favorite mods and I adore them all. (Was really saddened when I heard what happened to Chesko, an author to one of my fav mods ever)

You displaying us as ungrateful, free-loaders is pretty offensive, especially since YOU are among our community.

We are not stating that modders do not have a right to monetize their mods. They have every right.

We are just expressing our right to criticize this idea and how it could have terrible ramifications for the future of the modding community for Skyrim.

You then go on to compare the monetization of Skyrim to DOTA 2 and state that," What works for one will DEFINITELY work for the other."

Then you try to achieve some neutral landing pad by stating that it is the right of the modder to choose what they want to do, which ironically we also agree with.

We are trying to preserve our mod using freedom that we have had since Morrowind and beyond. We do not want everything for nothing. We appreciate and love our mod makers. We just don't want to have to give up appreciating their work because Valve and Beth want to cash in on their labors.

popcorn71 wrote:

theblueshark wrote: as a long time modder but not for skyrim I'm afraid; I still say money does not make quality output, more often than not it draws out the opposite. money creates rushed quality work and its more stressful for the modder. You'll get bashed and rushed for patches/fixes and you cant say no to it since its paid for or you'll end up like a greedy ***. you'll end up making quick fixes for your game/Mod which in return create more bugs and more problems. If you decide to leave you cant pass the project to anyone without paying them first unless you're lucky.

Free mods on the other hand you can take your time in making them. people would be more helpful and appreciative and would share inputs/Ideas to make it better . they'd scream and post less offensive words. You can move to any project at any time. to top it all off if you decide to leave some interested people would/might take over the project and you can see it grow.

So for me I still say that money will make fast but crappy mods in the end. If you don't believe me try it and find out for yourself dont say I didn't warn you.

How is that any different from the sea of garbage floating around on steam already ?

I had more fun with indie titles in the last couple of years than with any triple A titles (Paradox and Bethesda excluded).

[KaiserDeathIV]

why do people keep saying modders deserve money for their hard work?

 

modding is a HOBBY! its NOT a JOB! i have hobbies too. should i get paid for my hobbies now?

 

should we pay for FAN FICTIONS and FAN ART now because they also require a huge amount of work?

 

should everyone who has a hobby which requires work get paid for it now?!

 

donations are okay, paying for them not.

[Arendella]

In response to post #24634334.

KaiserDeathIV wrote:

Dude I so agree with you on this I'm reposting this link everywhere and reblogging this you are awesome.

[L3st4t]

In response to post #24634334. #24634469 is also a reply to the same post.

KaiserDeathIV wrote:

Arendella wrote: Dude I so agree with you on this I'm reposting this link everywhere and reblogging this you are awesome.

You right,this is a way for Bethesda and Valve to make money on works of talented people without having them on their rolpaycheck