Valve/Bethesda announce paid modding for Skyrim, more games to follow

[Deleted13364065User]

And there goes the next thing after;

 

- DLCs containing the other half of the game I paid 60€ and charging me 20€ per DLC (ea)

-Day 1 DLCs

- Microtransactions for random garbage or forcing me to pay to play the game properly

- Ingameshops with Boxes containing random stuff and a small possibility to get an item they reduced the dropchance to force you to buy it. (I'm looking at you Gameforge)

-Paid betas

-etc.

 

We're getting milked. The world is just about money and everyone goes mad.

But the saddest thing is that many modders get bad respones for taking this chance and they can't be blamed for that since if they don't do it someone else will.

I enjoyed many mods for free and I'm greatful but thats the point where i'm going to finally quit playing games and do my other passion, Karate. Its costs me nothing and there I am still a person and not a wallet.

 

Maybe someday things will change again... maybe not.

 

[MrBigWilly117]

would be the better choice* Edited April 23, 2015 by MrBigWilly117

[Aedred]

In response to post #24568344. #24568714, #24568839 are all replies on the same post.

taleden wrote:

AmeerMahmood wrote: Hasn't that already happened to Arissa and wet and cold though? Both mods just being updates.

taleden wrote: That's exactly what prompted the question. :)

I hadn't seen this before taleden.

An update for a mod is basically something that has additional content, whether it's adding a new color to an object, or a new word, anything that wasn't previously there. This rule you're posting applies to fixing stuff in a mod as well, you're basically providing additional support when you fix things in a mod you're hosting.

Providing no support would pretty much mean leaving the mod open for everyone else to fix without the author's help or answer questions about the mod after releasing the update.

Technically speaking I'd say yes, this does apply to that. Edited April 23, 2015 by Aedred

[Reaper0021]

In response to post #24568089. #24568194, #24568259, #24568389, #24568499, #24568534, #24568589, #24568629, #24568659, #24568809, #24568894, #24569004, #24569089 are all replies on the same post.

lilquickguy wrote:

Reaper0021 wrote: You're not seeing the broader picture. Until you do....no sense in explaining it as I can't type that well or fast. Research what this CAN lead too. Logic and Intelligence walk hand in hand and are close bed fellows.

boulegue wrote: sadly real developer jobs are rare especially those most modders want to do.... not agreeing with reaper since i think he is massively exaggerating but just getting a real developer job is not that easy... and theres a huge difference between working as a modder for yourself having free creativity and working for the "big evil" developers

Reaper0021 wrote: Not agreeing with boulegue as I think he is underestimating the true ramifications of what can happen here, but this can lead to all sorts of OTHER paywall issues here. THOSE are the problems.

mkess wrote: Yes, otherwise we would not have:

- micro-DLC frauds.
- Payed beta called "early access"
- Preorder, leading to bughells.
- Casual games, for the braindead masses.
- Unplayable Vanilla games like Gothic 3
- Bad and cheap console ports. Like Skyrim .... Remember the vanilla menu!

In all these cases, there is ONE and ONLY ONE reason:

GREED!

And so, the mods will be another point on that list:

- Paid mods. With DMCA takedown notice danger for ALL other modders and the community. They even mention it in their description!

WELL DONE, STEAM!

I am so angry.

boulegue wrote: please share your research with us

Reaper0021 wrote: THAT "boulegue" is the issues in small form what I'm referring to thank you mkess. He listed only some of the problems that can arise from this. Modding is a very small part of where this sort of thing can lead.


No research needed go look at "Early Access" games or "Pay to Win" or the DLC issues with games being cut apart and levels being held back until you pay $7.99 for them, etc. STEAM is full of "Research".

boulegue wrote: the DMCA claim through steam only goes for the mods posted for charge on the steam workshop, the DMCA claim option exists since the DMCA not just since today....

calfurius wrote: @mkess well with that logic everything should be free. Just because greed has caused some problems, doesn't mean charging money for something will always be a bad idea.

Paying for mods will have a learning period, and it will be bumpy. But I honestly think that this could be a good idea if it's done correctly.

boulegue wrote: mods are not full price titles and the FAQ page explaines that rather well.... the consumer not doing research is the problem.... a company trying to sell you things is not.... you can grow your own tomatos for free in your backyard... stop buying them at a grocery store its just a ripoff you can get them for free!

mkess wrote: No, not everthing should be free. But it would be nice to pay for a complete and bugfree game with modding tools, instead for the crap I mentioned earlier.

This is, in short, the reason I buy only GotY/Gold/Whatever editions for max. 15 bucks and less I am not willing to play their games any longer.

I am no fool, thank you. I was even willing to pay preorder full price for the witcher 3 .... until they announced, that you have to pay for future DLC, breaking their promise of a full game.

Keinichn wrote: Why worry? Because if some force makes it mildly successful, people will stop posting mods on here and put them on the workshop instead. The implications of this are huge. For example, if the guy who made Wet and Cold starts making money there do you really think he's going to leave that mod up here? I highly doubt it.

boulegue wrote: he already say he will release the mods on the nexus for free after a certain period of time
theres a very good open letter by cheesko
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s53/sh/3c4f3e29-9b4e-41cf-9a72-1b3ed9f70c62/c727dccbb3398aebb5946afac7faaaea

theres also great responses by elianora, trainwiz, rigmor and a few others where they state they will never charge money for it....

You are missing the point here. Let me try it this way:
This isn't just about "Mods". Following me? Okay. What this says to Valve and other companies is this: "It's okay to cut certain parts from games, outfits and levels and weapons cause we can make them "DLC" and charge for them"."Hey, we can take a staple of our games, in this case modding, and since most mod authors pour their own time into these games, we can offer the modders a way to charge fees for their game mods yet let's give them maybe 25% of what they make, we keep the rest""Early Access games...there is an amazing idea. You pay $14.99 for the ability to play a game that's maybe 20% done....then later on when we finish the games (could be another 5 months or 3 years) we'll charge you the balance. All of this is a way to shake money from the consumer. I have been a member of this community for some time. I have paid and supported many mod makers. Not opposed to that following me? I'm opposed to "Big Business" sticking there already rich hands into it even more. Edited April 23, 2015 by Reaper0021

[Lunyra]

In response to post #24566989. #24567159, #24567334, #24567369, #24568009, #24568119, #24568139, #24568164, #24568744, #24568794 are all replies on the same post.

sojourner22 wrote:

Uranium - 235 wrote: Unfortunately people - even modders - are greedy and dumb. See also Wet and Cold being sold for FIVE FREAKING DOLLARS.

Hoping it will all work itself out with altruism isn't going to cut it. Furthermore, we're only talking about the current generation of modders. There are almost no people who were modding games for Morrowind who are still modding Skyrim. The torch gets passed and new modders take it up. Yeah, we might have some modders who believe in the old ways and will offer it for free, but with time, they will move on with their lives, and a new generation will take over, a generation that's been raised on microtransactions, DLC, greed, and selfishness.

And that's the end of free modding forever.

sojourner22 wrote: Wet and Cold is set default at $5, but if you select the drop down arrow it allows you to pay as little as $1 for it.... a lot of these mods are listed as pay what you want. It just requires a little bit of extra searching.

That said, the Midas Magic gold minimum price is $3 for like... 10 extra spells. No.

AmeerMahmood wrote: Very pessimistic outlook but a possibility.

Dark0ne wrote: The horrible thing about doing that is that 75% of that donation goes to Valve and Bethesda. Butter my arse, that's crazy. We'll be working to make donations more prominent here without trying to make it too in your face annoying for users still. That way, 100% of the donations will go to the user.

Reaper0021 wrote: Dark I hope you do something ASAP. If ever there was a time we needed your experience it's now. Do something to save this situation. OR make it better.

Thaiauxn wrote: This is why I love Dark0ne. Wading into the trenches of a hot topic, replying to users, taking time away from life, implementing smart solutions.

*wipes away tear* Makes me so proud...

Brumbek wrote: @Dark0ne: thanks again for being awesome and making this site. I don't thank you enough. My current internal debate is...SMIM will always be free on Skyrim Nexus. But if Steam lets me charge a small fee, should I not let Steam users pay me? Steam users seem to love giving money for cosmetics...and SMIM is like the best cosmetic upgrade to Skyrim IMO, hehehe...anyway, I will never, EVER remove my mods from your site. Ever.

Dark0ne wrote: I've had lots of mod authors contact me on Skype about it, they seem to feel like they need to apologise to me or that they owe me an explanation. You don't! The modding industry (excluding the aforementioned F2P Steam games, where it's already happened) is about to go from a $0 a year industry to a multi-million dollar industry in the space of a year. Obviously it makes sense that the mod authors are compensated for their work accordingly, if they so wish.

The only thing that annoys me in all this is that there's no way for a competitor to come in and undercut that batcrap crazy 25/75 revenue share. And that's not me lamenting the fact that I can't do it, oh god no, that's far too much drama and stress for me to bother with, but the fact no one else can come along and do better due to Valve's lock-down, that's the thing that really annoys me in all of this. Used to be that people used the best platform for the job. And if you wanted to be that platform you had to analyse all the other platforms and try and come up with something better, something people really wanted to use. That's out the window, now.

25/75...my god.

mcguffin wrote: 75% cut is really high.
I understand if Bethesda want a share, because, you know, most mods are using their assets in first place, but Valve... this feel wrong.
Even Apple doesnt take that much in Itunes.

Its the 75% that smells, Brum.

I have no doubt people want to pay for SMIM, just not thru Steam Workshop because of the 75%.

[grelf]

Valve lately has been mostly about leeching from other people's work, apparently.

[boulegue]

In response to post #24568089. #24568194, #24568259, #24568389, #24568499, #24568534, #24568589, #24568629, #24568659, #24568809, #24568894, #24569004, #24569054 are all replies on the same post.

lilquickguy wrote:

Reaper0021 wrote: You're not seeing the broader picture. Until you do....no sense in explaining it as I can't type that well or fast. Research what this CAN lead too. Logic and Intelligence walk hand in hand and are close bed fellows.

boulegue wrote: sadly real developer jobs are rare especially those most modders want to do.... not agreeing with reaper since i think he is massively exaggerating but just getting a real developer job is not that easy... and theres a huge difference between working as a modder for yourself having free creativity and working for the "big evil" developers

Reaper0021 wrote: Not agreeing with boulegue as I think he is underestimating the true ramifications of what can happen here, but this can lead to all sorts of OTHER paywall issues here. THOSE are the problems.

mkess wrote: Yes, otherwise we would not have:

- micro-DLC frauds.
- Payed beta called "early access"
- Preorder, leading to bughells.
- Casual games, for the braindead masses.
- Unplayable Vanilla games like Gothic 3
- Bad and cheap console ports. Like Skyrim .... Remember the vanilla menu!

In all these cases, there is ONE and ONLY ONE reason:

GREED!

And so, the mods will be another point on that list:

- Paid mods. With DMCA takedown notice danger for ALL other modders and the community. They even mention it in their description!

WELL DONE, STEAM!

I am so angry.

boulegue wrote: please share your research with us

Reaper0021 wrote: THAT "boulegue" is the issues in small form what I'm referring to thank you mkess. He listed only some of the problems that can arise from this. Modding is a very small part of where this sort of thing can lead.


No research needed go look at "Early Access" games or "Pay to Win" or the DLC issues with games being cut apart and levels being held back until you pay $7.99 for them, etc. STEAM is full of "Research".

boulegue wrote: the DMCA claim through steam only goes for the mods posted for charge on the steam workshop, the DMCA claim option exists since the DMCA not just since today....

calfurius wrote: @mkess well with that logic everything should be free. Just because greed has caused some problems, doesn't mean charging money for something will always be a bad idea.

Paying for mods will have a learning period, and it will be bumpy. But I honestly think that this could be a good idea if it's done correctly.

boulegue wrote: mods are not full price titles and the FAQ page explaines that rather well.... the consumer not doing research is the problem.... a company trying to sell you things is not.... you can grow your own tomatos for free in your backyard... stop buying them at a grocery store its just a ripoff you can get them for free!

mkess wrote: No, not everthing should be free. But it would be nice to pay for a complete and bugfree game with modding tools, instead for the crap I mentioned earlier.

This is, in short, the reason I buy only GotY/Gold/Whatever editions for max. 15 bucks and less I am not willing to play their games any longer.

I am no fool, thank you. I was even willing to pay preorder full price for the witcher 3 .... until they announced, that you have to pay for future DLC, breaking their promise of a full game.

Keinichn wrote: Why worry? Because if some force makes it mildly successful, people will stop posting mods on here and put them on the workshop instead. The implications of this are huge. For example, if the guy who made Wet and Cold starts making money there do you really think he's going to leave that mod up here? I highly doubt it.

Reaper0021 wrote: You are missing the point here. Let me try it this way:
This isn't just about "Mods". Following me? Okay. What this says to Valve and other companies is this: "It's okay to cut certain parts from games, outfits and levels and weapons cause we can make them "DLC" and charge for them".
"Hey, we can take a staple of our games, in this case modding, and since most mod authors pour their own time into these games, we can offer the modders a way to charge fees for their game mods yet let's give them maybe 25% of what they make, we keep the rest"
"Early Access games...there is an amazing idea. You pay $14.99 for the ability to play a game that's maybe 205 done....then later on when we finish the games (could be another 5 months or 3 years) we'll charge you the balance.
All of this is a way to shake money from the consumer. I have been a member of this community for some time. I have paid and supported many mod makers. Not opposed to that following me? I'm opposed to "Big Business" sticky there already rich hands into it even more.

he already say he will release the mods on the nexus for free after a certain period of time
theres a very good open letter by cheesko
https://www.evernote.com/shard/s53/sh/3c4f3e29-9b4e-41cf-9a72-1b3ed9f70c62/c727dccbb3398aebb5946afac7faaaea

theres also great responses by elianora, trainwiz, rigmor and a few others where they state they will never charge money for it....

[Keinichn]

In response to post #24567939. #24568149, #24568224, #24568229, #24568289, #24568664, #24568749, #24568784, #24568864, #24568989 are all replies on the same post.

plaxeko wrote:

ambria wrote: Yeap this is going to cause all kinds of headaches.

What if someones buys mod A
Then buys mod B
And they are incompatible and screw up their game.
Who do they blame?
Can they get a refund for one of the mods, since they can't use both?
This could be a huge mess

icecreamassassin wrote: yeah not to mention all the mods that are released full of bugs all on their own, never mind compatibility issues. Value sure as hell isn't going to shell out money to have a crew of people rate the stability and compatibility of each and every mod, they just see dollar signs and a bunch of people willing to get on board creating content for them for a sliver of the pie. Quality will drop way down, and some modders will even start pulling their content from Nexus in favor of trying to sell it, which kinda stinks

Jakal256 wrote: Absolutely, if we had no more crashing, no more conflictions, no more performance hits, a mod manager of our choice than I might buy into this. It would certainly make it easier to find what you wanted. I would pay for uniform stability. However guaranteeing these things is like next to impossible I understand.

boulegue wrote: all of that is explained in their FAQ and the burden is shifted to the buyer... sad thing

ambria wrote: Have a link to that FAQ by any chance?
I only read about this here

boulegue wrote: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent/

Manaburn wrote: True. Thats another way to look at it... If i pay money for a mod, it instantly stops to have any single excuse for being broken, incompatible or cause all the headaches free mods tend to do sometimes. I really never complained... why should i? It was free. So... there we go! Its a hobby, so i try to fix it. I can hope and maybe ask but not expect someone doing this out of fun to deliver a perfect, flawless thing. Its fine if its bugged and needs fixing..

But yea, in the second this costs a dime... let alone a dollar or more... Well, you better deliver A-Game or sit down for a few days of costumer support. Because you just stopped doing it out of fun. I am now your costumer. Costumer is King. No excuses.

ambria wrote: Oh wow, that could actually be easily abused by the buyer
" you can easily get a refund of that mod within 24 hours of your purchase"
Considering a lot of dungeon and quests mods can be played and completed well within a 24 hour time frame, what's to stop someone from playing through one, getting a refund and moving to the next.
If that's the case then it really limits the amount of mods that would be deemed purchase worthy to ones that you intend to use forever

KennyBall wrote: from steam "Try any mod, Risk Free
It's still important to spend a little time learning about any product you are about to purchase. But, if after purchase you find that a mod is broken or doesn’t work as promised, you can easily get a refund of that mod within 24 hours of your purchase."

So they have a "trial period" for the paid mods. What prevents someone from copying the mod files and then getting a refund? They still have the mod then.

[Deleted2806759User]

Alhamdullilah for everything.

[boulegue]

In response to post #24569029.

Areaii wrote:

the milking will continue as long as we let ourselves get milked.... if it wasnt successful companies wouldnt do it