Valve/Bethesda announce paid modding for Skyrim, more games to follow

[Deleted2806759User]

In response to post #24568344.

taleden wrote:

Hasn't that already happened to Arissa and wet and cold though? Both mods just being updates.

[Dark0ne]

In response to post #24566989. #24567159, #24567334, #24567369, #24568009, #24568119, #24568139, #24568164 are all replies on the same post.

sojourner22 wrote:

Uranium - 235 wrote: Unfortunately people - even modders - are greedy and dumb. See also Wet and Cold being sold for FIVE FREAKING DOLLARS.

Hoping it will all work itself out with altruism isn't going to cut it. Furthermore, we're only talking about the current generation of modders. There are almost no people who were modding games for Morrowind who are still modding Skyrim. The torch gets passed and new modders take it up. Yeah, we might have some modders who believe in the old ways and will offer it for free, but with time, they will move on with their lives, and a new generation will take over, a generation that's been raised on microtransactions, DLC, greed, and selfishness.

And that's the end of free modding forever.

sojourner22 wrote: Wet and Cold is set default at $5, but if you select the drop down arrow it allows you to pay as little as $1 for it.... a lot of these mods are listed as pay what you want. It just requires a little bit of extra searching.

That said, the Midas Magic gold minimum price is $3 for like... 10 extra spells. No.

AmeerMahmood wrote: Very pessimistic outlook but a possibility.

Dark0ne wrote: The horrible thing about doing that is that 75% of that donation goes to Valve and Bethesda. Butter my arse, that's crazy. We'll be working to make donations more prominent here without trying to make it too in your face annoying for users still. That way, 100% of the donations will go to the user.

Reaper0021 wrote: Dark I hope you do something ASAP. If ever there was a time we needed your experience it's now. Do something to save this situation. OR make it better.

Thaiauxn wrote: This is why I love Dark0ne. Wading into the trenches of a hot topic, replying to users, taking time away from life, implementing smart solutions.

*wipes away tear* Makes me so proud...

Brumbek wrote: @Dark0ne: thanks again for being awesome and making this site. I don't thank you enough. My current internal debate is...SMIM will always be free on Skyrim Nexus. But if Steam lets me charge a small fee, should I not let Steam users pay me? Steam users seem to love giving money for cosmetics...and SMIM is like the best cosmetic upgrade to Skyrim IMO, hehehe...anyway, I will never, EVER remove my mods from your site. Ever.

I've had lots of mod authors contact me on Skype about it, they seem to feel like they need to apologise to me or that they owe me an explanation. You don't! The modding industry (excluding the aforementioned F2P Steam games, where it's already happened) is about to go from a $0 a year industry to a multi-million dollar industry in the space of a year. Obviously it makes sense that the mod authors are compensated for their work accordingly, if they so wish.

The only thing that annoys me in all this is that there's no way for a competitor to come in and undercut that batcrap crazy 25/75 revenue share. And that's not me lamenting the fact that I can't do it, oh god no, that's far too much drama and stress for me to bother with, but the fact no one else can come along and do better due to Valve's lock-down, that's the thing that really annoys me in all of this. Used to be that people used the best platform for the job. And if you wanted to be that platform you had to analyse all the other platforms and try and come up with something better, something people really wanted to use. That's out the window, now.

25/75...my god.

[boulegue]

In response to post #24567939. #24568149, #24568224, #24568229, #24568289, #24568664 are all replies on the same post.

plaxeko wrote:

ambria wrote: Yeap this is going to cause all kinds of headaches.

What if someones buys mod A
Then buys mod B
And they are incompatible and screw up their game.
Who do they blame?
Can they get a refund for one of the mods, since they can't use both?
This could be a huge mess

icecreamassassin wrote: yeah not to mention all the mods that are released full of bugs all on their own, never mind compatibility issues. Value sure as hell isn't going to shell out money to have a crew of people rate the stability and compatibility of each and every mod, they just see dollar signs and a bunch of people willing to get on board creating content for them for a sliver of the pie. Quality will drop way down, and some modders will even start pulling their content from Nexus in favor of trying to sell it, which kinda stinks

Jakal256 wrote: Absolutely, if we had no more crashing, no more conflictions, no more performance hits, a mod manager of our choice than I might buy into this. It would certainly make it easier to find what you wanted. I would pay for uniform stability. However guaranteeing these things is like next to impossible I understand.

boulegue wrote: all of that is explained in their FAQ and the burden is shifted to the buyer... sad thing

ambria wrote: Have a link to that FAQ by any chance?
I only read about this here

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent/

[Ash117]

This is a low move by Valve, and it seems that many people are falling for the guise "Support for the Modder" when in reality the only ones benefiting from it is Valve/Bethesda, if you really want to support modders, click the bloody donate button, these great modders deserve as much.

On a side note this will be detrimental to future modders also, how is a humble modder meant to start without the help of thriving modding community like here on the Nexus?

 

[Manaburn]

In response to post #24567939. #24568149, #24568224, #24568229, #24568289, #24568664, #24568749 are all replies on the same post.

plaxeko wrote:

ambria wrote: Yeap this is going to cause all kinds of headaches.

What if someones buys mod A
Then buys mod B
And they are incompatible and screw up their game.
Who do they blame?
Can they get a refund for one of the mods, since they can't use both?
This could be a huge mess

icecreamassassin wrote: yeah not to mention all the mods that are released full of bugs all on their own, never mind compatibility issues. Value sure as hell isn't going to shell out money to have a crew of people rate the stability and compatibility of each and every mod, they just see dollar signs and a bunch of people willing to get on board creating content for them for a sliver of the pie. Quality will drop way down, and some modders will even start pulling their content from Nexus in favor of trying to sell it, which kinda stinks

Jakal256 wrote: Absolutely, if we had no more crashing, no more conflictions, no more performance hits, a mod manager of our choice than I might buy into this. It would certainly make it easier to find what you wanted. I would pay for uniform stability. However guaranteeing these things is like next to impossible I understand.

boulegue wrote: all of that is explained in their FAQ and the burden is shifted to the buyer... sad thing

ambria wrote: Have a link to that FAQ by any chance?
I only read about this here

boulegue wrote: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent/

True. Thats another way to look at it... If i pay money for a mod, it instantly stops to have any single excuse for being broken, incompatible or cause all the headaches free mods tend to do sometimes. I really never complained... why should i? It was free. So... there we go! Its a hobby, so i try to fix it. I can hope and maybe ask but not expect someone doing this out of fun to deliver a perfect, flawless thing. Its fine if its bugged and needs fixing..

But yea, in the second this costs a dime... let alone a dollar or more... Well, you better deliver A-Game or sit down for a few days of costumer support. Because you just stopped doing it out of fun. I am now your costumer. Costumer is King. No excuses.

[Jasmer]

I'm gonna be honest, I don't care at all one bit about this. If somebody wants to charge for their mods and the franchise owner has authorized it in exchange for a cut, that's their prerogative. Don't want to pay? Don't buy the mod. It isn't rocket surgery.

[mcguffin]

In response to post #24566989. #24567159, #24567334, #24567369, #24568009, #24568119, #24568139, #24568164, #24568744 are all replies on the same post.

sojourner22 wrote:

Uranium - 235 wrote: Unfortunately people - even modders - are greedy and dumb. See also Wet and Cold being sold for FIVE FREAKING DOLLARS.

Hoping it will all work itself out with altruism isn't going to cut it. Furthermore, we're only talking about the current generation of modders. There are almost no people who were modding games for Morrowind who are still modding Skyrim. The torch gets passed and new modders take it up. Yeah, we might have some modders who believe in the old ways and will offer it for free, but with time, they will move on with their lives, and a new generation will take over, a generation that's been raised on microtransactions, DLC, greed, and selfishness.

And that's the end of free modding forever.

sojourner22 wrote: Wet and Cold is set default at $5, but if you select the drop down arrow it allows you to pay as little as $1 for it.... a lot of these mods are listed as pay what you want. It just requires a little bit of extra searching.

That said, the Midas Magic gold minimum price is $3 for like... 10 extra spells. No.

AmeerMahmood wrote: Very pessimistic outlook but a possibility.

Dark0ne wrote: The horrible thing about doing that is that 75% of that donation goes to Valve and Bethesda. Butter my arse, that's crazy. We'll be working to make donations more prominent here without trying to make it too in your face annoying for users still. That way, 100% of the donations will go to the user.

Reaper0021 wrote: Dark I hope you do something ASAP. If ever there was a time we needed your experience it's now. Do something to save this situation. OR make it better.

Thaiauxn wrote: This is why I love Dark0ne. Wading into the trenches of a hot topic, replying to users, taking time away from life, implementing smart solutions.

*wipes away tear* Makes me so proud...

Brumbek wrote: @Dark0ne: thanks again for being awesome and making this site. I don't thank you enough. My current internal debate is...SMIM will always be free on Skyrim Nexus. But if Steam lets me charge a small fee, should I not let Steam users pay me? Steam users seem to love giving money for cosmetics...and SMIM is like the best cosmetic upgrade to Skyrim IMO, hehehe...anyway, I will never, EVER remove my mods from your site. Ever.

Dark0ne wrote: I've had lots of mod authors contact me on Skype about it, they seem to feel like they need to apologise to me or that they owe me an explanation. You don't! The modding industry (excluding the aforementioned F2P Steam games, where it's already happened) is about to go from a $0 a year industry to a multi-million dollar industry in the space of a year. Obviously it makes sense that the mod authors are compensated for their work accordingly, if they so wish.

The only thing that annoys me in all this is that there's no way for a competitor to come in and undercut that batcrap crazy 25/75 revenue share. And that's not me lamenting the fact that I can't do it, oh god no, that's far too much drama and stress for me to bother with, but the fact no one else can come along and do better due to Valve's lock-down, that's the thing that really annoys me in all of this. Used to be that people used the best platform for the job. And if you wanted to be that platform you had to analyse all the other platforms and try and come up with something better, something people really wanted to use. That's out the window, now.

25/75...my god.

75% cut is really high.
I understand if Bethesda want a share, because, you know, most mods are using their assets in first place, but Valve... this feel wrong.
Even Apple doesnt take that much in Itunes.

[ChaoticMarin]

My question is whether mods will no longer be available here as modders try to encourage people to pay for them.

[boulegue]

In response to post #24568089. #24568194, #24568259, #24568389, #24568499, #24568534, #24568589, #24568629, #24568659 are all replies on the same post.

lilquickguy wrote:

Reaper0021 wrote: You're not seeing the broader picture. Until you do....no sense in explaining it as I can't type that well or fast. Research what this CAN lead too. Logic and Intelligence walk hand in hand and are close bed fellows.

boulegue wrote: sadly real developer jobs are rare especially those most modders want to do.... not agreeing with reaper since i think he is massively exaggerating but just getting a real developer job is not that easy... and theres a huge difference between working as a modder for yourself having free creativity and working for the "big evil" developers

Reaper0021 wrote: Not agreeing with boulegue as I think he is underestimating the true ramifications of what can happen here, but this can lead to all sorts of OTHER paywall issues here. THOSE are the problems.

mkess wrote: Yes, otherwise we would not have:

- micro-DLC frauds.
- Payed beta called "early access"
- Preorder, leading to bughells.
- Casual games, for the braindead masses.
- Unplayable Vanilla games like Gothic 3
- Bad and cheap console ports. Like Skyrim .... Remember the vanilla menu!

In all these cases, there is ONE and ONLY ONE reason:

GREED!

And so, the mods will be another point on that list:

- Paid mods. With DMCA takedown notice danger for ALL other modders and the community. They even mention it in their description!

WELL DONE, STEAM!

I am so angry.

boulegue wrote: please share your research with us

Reaper0021 wrote: THAT "boulegue" is the issues in small form what I'm referring to thank you mkess. He listed only some of the problems that can arise from this. Modding is a very small part of where this sort of thing can lead.


No research needed go look at "Early Access" games or "Pay to Win" or the DLC issues with games being cut apart and levels being held back until you pay $7.99 for them, etc. STEAM is full of "Research".

boulegue wrote: the DMCA claim through steam only goes for the mods posted for charge on the steam workshop, the DMCA claim option exists since the DMCA not just since today....

calfurius wrote: @mkess well with that logic everything should be free. Just because greed has caused some problems, doesn't mean charging money for something will always be a bad idea.

Paying for mods will have a learning period, and it will be bumpy. But I honestly think that this could be a good idea if it's done correctly.

mods are not full price titles and the FAQ page explaines that rather well.... the consumer not doing research is the problem.... a company trying to sell you things is not.... you can grow your own tomatos for free in your backyard... stop buying them at a grocery store its just a ripoff you can get them for free!

[boulegue]

In response to post #24568799.

ChaoticMarin wrote:

theres been a lot of the "big" modders here already saying they will only post their mods for free... as far as i know only isoku and cheesko have said they will be posting on the workshop for money