Valve/Bethesda announce paid modding for Skyrim, more games to follow

[taleden]

In response to post #24568344. #24568714 is also a reply to the same post.

taleden wrote:

AmeerMahmood wrote: Hasn't that already happened to Arissa and wet and cold though? Both mods just being updates.

That's exactly what prompted the question. :)

[ambria]

In response to post #24567939. #24568149, #24568224, #24568229, #24568289, #24568664, #24568749, #24568784 are all replies on the same post.

plaxeko wrote:

ambria wrote: Yeap this is going to cause all kinds of headaches.

What if someones buys mod A
Then buys mod B
And they are incompatible and screw up their game.
Who do they blame?
Can they get a refund for one of the mods, since they can't use both?
This could be a huge mess

icecreamassassin wrote: yeah not to mention all the mods that are released full of bugs all on their own, never mind compatibility issues. Value sure as hell isn't going to shell out money to have a crew of people rate the stability and compatibility of each and every mod, they just see dollar signs and a bunch of people willing to get on board creating content for them for a sliver of the pie. Quality will drop way down, and some modders will even start pulling their content from Nexus in favor of trying to sell it, which kinda stinks

Jakal256 wrote: Absolutely, if we had no more crashing, no more conflictions, no more performance hits, a mod manager of our choice than I might buy into this. It would certainly make it easier to find what you wanted. I would pay for uniform stability. However guaranteeing these things is like next to impossible I understand.

boulegue wrote: all of that is explained in their FAQ and the burden is shifted to the buyer... sad thing

ambria wrote: Have a link to that FAQ by any chance?
I only read about this here

boulegue wrote: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent/

Manaburn wrote: True. Thats another way to look at it... If i pay money for a mod, it instantly stops to have any single excuse for being broken, incompatible or cause all the headaches free mods tend to do sometimes. I really never complained... why should i? It was free. So... there we go! Its a hobby, so i try to fix it. I can hope and maybe ask but not expect someone doing this out of fun to deliver a perfect, flawless thing. Its fine if its bugged and needs fixing..

But yea, in the second this costs a dime... let alone a dollar or more... Well, you better deliver A-Game or sit down for a few days of costumer support. Because you just stopped doing it out of fun. I am now your costumer. Costumer is King. No excuses.

Oh wow, that could actually be easily abused by the buyer
" you can easily get a refund of that mod within 24 hours of your purchase"
Considering a lot of dungeon and quests mods can be played and completed well within a 24 hour time frame, what's to stop someone from playing through one, getting a refund and moving to the next.
If that's the case then it really limits the amount of mods that would be deemed purchase worthy to ones that you intend to use forever Edited April 23, 2015 by ambria

[boulegue]

In response to post #24567554. #24567709, #24567759, #24567899, #24567969, #24568219, #24568329, #24568424, #24568599 are all replies on the same post.

bioshards wrote:

AmeerMahmood wrote: Keep in mind, dude, the mod authors only get 25% of the cost of the mod through the workshop.

So if, for instance, a mod costs $5 (cough wet and cold), the author will only be getting $1.25. But, thinking that, this could also be an incentive to charge large amounts of money for mods, just so authors can get a decent "cut".

IMO though, this whole thing is ridiculous, £2 for a mod? Most of my damn PC games cost me £3.50.

Jakal256 wrote: To add to that there's 2 creators to wet and cold so they split it 50 50 so 50% of 25%. What a meager payout for all the hate they're getting right now...

boulegue wrote: pretty sure they got a "little" extra from valve

bioshards wrote: so now I have to spend 20 dollars on the game, 5 dollars on project nevada, 6 dollars on weapon retexture project, 10 dollars on.... you get the picture.

mkess wrote: If they accept only 25% of the income, they deserve all they got now, alone for their weak math skills and the missing common sense.

I as modder from "X2-the threat" would laugh steam in their face, for the idea to make 75% with MY hard work. And the MK3 trader scripts were hard work, believe me.

No, sir. I get 90% and you 10%, would be my answer. You have done exact NOTHING, to earn these money! Otherwise I will give it the players for free. ... And, please, make the payment optional!

This is a sick joke, right? Only 25%?

icecreamassassin wrote: this whole "$2 for a mod when I can pay $3 for a whole game?" argument doesn't really hold water. Look at the "play for free, pay to succeed" model of MMO's? WoW has the subscription model locked up tight despite the fact it's run its course in my mind, while everyone else does the whole premium currency thing. Apps do it all the time: pay $5 for 200 game gold, and people do it. You aren't actually paying for intangible software, you are actually paying for completely imaginary stuff, which is even worse. That's essentially what they are banking on with this new mod fee model.

boulegue wrote: modders for TF2&Dota2 get 25% aswell and they can make a lot of money.... i dont skyrim mods will reach those numbers but valve is doing fairly well with this system

(by the way thank you mkess for your work on the X games! 3000hours and counting on x-3)

AmeerMahmood wrote: Now that's it's been mentioned, it probably is true - Valve has probably paid a hefty sum to the initial modders who have put some files on the SW for this paid-mod launch.

I highly doubt that Isoku is getting $1.25 and that being all... I'm sure there was some other incentive.

Regardless, guy is a great modder.

the weapons&armors.... are from valve franchises....

[BeastRU]

A new low for Skyrim modding and modding in general. A sad day indeed.

[Aahzmandias]

In response to post #24568089. #24568194, #24568259, #24568389, #24568499, #24568534, #24568589, #24568629, #24568659, #24568809 are all replies on the same post.

lilquickguy wrote:

Reaper0021 wrote: You're not seeing the broader picture. Until you do....no sense in explaining it as I can't type that well or fast. Research what this CAN lead too. Logic and Intelligence walk hand in hand and are close bed fellows.

boulegue wrote: sadly real developer jobs are rare especially those most modders want to do.... not agreeing with reaper since i think he is massively exaggerating but just getting a real developer job is not that easy... and theres a huge difference between working as a modder for yourself having free creativity and working for the "big evil" developers

Reaper0021 wrote: Not agreeing with boulegue as I think he is underestimating the true ramifications of what can happen here, but this can lead to all sorts of OTHER paywall issues here. THOSE are the problems.

mkess wrote: Yes, otherwise we would not have:

- micro-DLC frauds.
- Payed beta called "early access"
- Preorder, leading to bughells.
- Casual games, for the braindead masses.
- Unplayable Vanilla games like Gothic 3
- Bad and cheap console ports. Like Skyrim .... Remember the vanilla menu!

In all these cases, there is ONE and ONLY ONE reason:

GREED!

And so, the mods will be another point on that list:

- Paid mods. With DMCA takedown notice danger for ALL other modders and the community. They even mention it in their description!

WELL DONE, STEAM!

I am so angry.

boulegue wrote: please share your research with us

Reaper0021 wrote: THAT "boulegue" is the issues in small form what I'm referring to thank you mkess. He listed only some of the problems that can arise from this. Modding is a very small part of where this sort of thing can lead.


No research needed go look at "Early Access" games or "Pay to Win" or the DLC issues with games being cut apart and levels being held back until you pay $7.99 for them, etc. STEAM is full of "Research".

boulegue wrote: the DMCA claim through steam only goes for the mods posted for charge on the steam workshop, the DMCA claim option exists since the DMCA not just since today....

calfurius wrote: @mkess well with that logic everything should be free. Just because greed has caused some problems, doesn't mean charging money for something will always be a bad idea.

Paying for mods will have a learning period, and it will be bumpy. But I honestly think that this could be a good idea if it's done correctly.

boulegue wrote: mods are not full price titles and the FAQ page explaines that rather well.... the consumer not doing research is the problem.... a company trying to sell you things is not.... you can grow your own tomatos for free in your backyard... stop buying them at a grocery store its just a ripoff you can get them for free!

No, not everthing should be free. But it would be nice to pay for a complete and bugfree game with modding tools, instead for the crap I mentioned earlier.

This is, in short, the reason I buy only GotY/Gold/Whatever editions for max. 15 bucks and less I am not willing to play their games any longer.

I am no fool, thank you. I was even willing to pay preorder full price for the witcher 3 .... until they announced, that you have to pay for future DLC, breaking their promise of a full game.

[Keinichn]

Good thing I've never even looked through the Workshop stuff. This is ridiculous. Especially people charging for mods that they borrowed things from to create. Do the original authors get a kickback? I would assume not. There are people charging for in-game models of copyrighted things. There's a dude charging $1 for a sword for Skyrim that's in DOTA2. It's going to be a huge copyright infringement headache. It's also going to, dare I say, create a market for mod piracy. I'd not be surprised if it's already started.

[JDK753]

Valve and Bethesda can stick that idea where the sun don't shine. Everyone already spent money on buying the game and now they want more money out of fan made content. That's being greedy. They will destroy the whole modding community.

 

I'll never buy a mod and won't sell one either, it's not fair to anyone.

[KennyBall]

In response to post #24567939. #24568149, #24568224, #24568229, #24568289, #24568664, #24568749, #24568784, #24568864 are all replies on the same post.

plaxeko wrote:

ambria wrote: Yeap this is going to cause all kinds of headaches.

What if someones buys mod A
Then buys mod B
And they are incompatible and screw up their game.
Who do they blame?
Can they get a refund for one of the mods, since they can't use both?
This could be a huge mess

icecreamassassin wrote: yeah not to mention all the mods that are released full of bugs all on their own, never mind compatibility issues. Value sure as hell isn't going to shell out money to have a crew of people rate the stability and compatibility of each and every mod, they just see dollar signs and a bunch of people willing to get on board creating content for them for a sliver of the pie. Quality will drop way down, and some modders will even start pulling their content from Nexus in favor of trying to sell it, which kinda stinks

Jakal256 wrote: Absolutely, if we had no more crashing, no more conflictions, no more performance hits, a mod manager of our choice than I might buy into this. It would certainly make it easier to find what you wanted. I would pay for uniform stability. However guaranteeing these things is like next to impossible I understand.

boulegue wrote: all of that is explained in their FAQ and the burden is shifted to the buyer... sad thing

ambria wrote: Have a link to that FAQ by any chance?
I only read about this here

boulegue wrote: http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent/

Manaburn wrote: True. Thats another way to look at it... If i pay money for a mod, it instantly stops to have any single excuse for being broken, incompatible or cause all the headaches free mods tend to do sometimes. I really never complained... why should i? It was free. So... there we go! Its a hobby, so i try to fix it. I can hope and maybe ask but not expect someone doing this out of fun to deliver a perfect, flawless thing. Its fine if its bugged and needs fixing..

But yea, in the second this costs a dime... let alone a dollar or more... Well, you better deliver A-Game or sit down for a few days of costumer support. Because you just stopped doing it out of fun. I am now your costumer. Costumer is King. No excuses.

ambria wrote: Oh wow, that could actually be easily abused by the buyer
" you can easily get a refund of that mod within 24 hours of your purchase"
Considering a lot of dungeon and quests mods can be played and completed well within a 24 hour time frame, what's to stop someone from playing through one, getting a refund and moving to the next.
If that's the case then it really limits the amount of mods that would be deemed purchase worthy to ones that you intend to use forever

from steam "Try any mod, Risk Free
It's still important to spend a little time learning about any product you are about to purchase. But, if after purchase you find that a mod is broken or doesn’t work as promised, you can easily get a refund of that mod within 24 hours of your purchase."

[Keinichn]

In response to post #24568089. #24568194, #24568259, #24568389, #24568499, #24568534, #24568589, #24568629, #24568659, #24568809, #24568894 are all replies on the same post.

lilquickguy wrote:

Reaper0021 wrote: You're not seeing the broader picture. Until you do....no sense in explaining it as I can't type that well or fast. Research what this CAN lead too. Logic and Intelligence walk hand in hand and are close bed fellows.

boulegue wrote: sadly real developer jobs are rare especially those most modders want to do.... not agreeing with reaper since i think he is massively exaggerating but just getting a real developer job is not that easy... and theres a huge difference between working as a modder for yourself having free creativity and working for the "big evil" developers

Reaper0021 wrote: Not agreeing with boulegue as I think he is underestimating the true ramifications of what can happen here, but this can lead to all sorts of OTHER paywall issues here. THOSE are the problems.

mkess wrote: Yes, otherwise we would not have:

- micro-DLC frauds.
- Payed beta called "early access"
- Preorder, leading to bughells.
- Casual games, for the braindead masses.
- Unplayable Vanilla games like Gothic 3
- Bad and cheap console ports. Like Skyrim .... Remember the vanilla menu!

In all these cases, there is ONE and ONLY ONE reason:

GREED!

And so, the mods will be another point on that list:

- Paid mods. With DMCA takedown notice danger for ALL other modders and the community. They even mention it in their description!

WELL DONE, STEAM!

I am so angry.

boulegue wrote: please share your research with us

Reaper0021 wrote: THAT "boulegue" is the issues in small form what I'm referring to thank you mkess. He listed only some of the problems that can arise from this. Modding is a very small part of where this sort of thing can lead.


No research needed go look at "Early Access" games or "Pay to Win" or the DLC issues with games being cut apart and levels being held back until you pay $7.99 for them, etc. STEAM is full of "Research".

boulegue wrote: the DMCA claim through steam only goes for the mods posted for charge on the steam workshop, the DMCA claim option exists since the DMCA not just since today....

calfurius wrote: @mkess well with that logic everything should be free. Just because greed has caused some problems, doesn't mean charging money for something will always be a bad idea.

Paying for mods will have a learning period, and it will be bumpy. But I honestly think that this could be a good idea if it's done correctly.

boulegue wrote: mods are not full price titles and the FAQ page explaines that rather well.... the consumer not doing research is the problem.... a company trying to sell you things is not.... you can grow your own tomatos for free in your backyard... stop buying them at a grocery store its just a ripoff you can get them for free!

mkess wrote: No, not everthing should be free. But it would be nice to pay for a complete and bugfree game with modding tools, instead for the crap I mentioned earlier.

This is, in short, the reason I buy only GotY/Gold/Whatever editions for max. 15 bucks and less I am not willing to play their games any longer.

I am no fool, thank you. I was even willing to pay preorder full price for the witcher 3 .... until they announced, that you have to pay for future DLC, breaking their promise of a full game.

Why worry? Because if some force makes it mildly successful, people will stop posting mods on here and put them on the workshop instead. The implications of this are huge. For example, if the guy who made Wet and Cold starts making money there do you really think he's going to leave that mod up here? I highly doubt it.

[Marthenil]

In response to post #24565489. #24565664, #24565754, #24565979 are all replies on the same post.

Elegost75 wrote:

boulegue wrote: if you created original content it's yours. you are fully protected if someone puts up your mods/resources without your permission.

Elegost75 wrote: I mean consumer protections laws, mostly.

Things like mods not working based on load order and such.

boulegue wrote: you have the 24h return option but thats basically it. and for some of the larger mods which maybe show CTD's etc etc after a long while thats sadly not enough

Yep, that's what I mean. And there are plenty EU laws according to that. And the way the Workshop is completely unchecked by Valve, I can see a whole can of worms there.