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[Arthmoor]

In response to post #24605164. #24605384, #24605454 are all replies on the same post.

Arthmoor wrote:

bigdeano89 wrote: This whole thing stinks of shady ToS on Valves part. I dont know if you read Cheskos reddit but he says that Valve refuse to take down HIS mods, even if he tells them to, without legal reasons. So, basically, if you put a paid mod up on Steam, that version of the mod is pretty much Valves to do with as they like.

I have to ask Arthmoor, did any of you read through Terms when contacted by Valve? There has to have been a contract in place surely?

CiderMuffin wrote: No, no it actually wouldn't. 24 hours is a pathetic refund period as it's entirely possible that mods can break a save after the 24 hour period. It may not happen directly at 24 hours but it can still happen. It also doesn't help that mods can entirely die out later long after the refund policy expires or projects get abandoned and are left as vaporware.

It also doesn't help that a paywall model can end up with two mod makers bickering because they made something similar. Take a mod that makes border gates, someone inspired by another's wanted to improve on the idea, right now? That would go easy with the two modders but under a paywall? It's a formula for drama to explode and cause two mod makers to bicker and try to convince people their mod is the superior one despite neither fixing anything about their mod. It limits sharing and causing nothing but needless competition

it's fine modders want to be paid, it's completely fine but make it an OPTION, not a requirement. Numerous platforms exist for modders to ask for donations, hell you want to make it better get a group together and petition Bethesda and any other companies to allow modders to set up patreon accounts solely dedicated to modding. That way you're not alienating your fanbase.

Even if we got a full refund and not just steam wallet money this ordeal would still be going on unless the refund period was never-ending which just causes more problems.

@bigdeano89

at this point Chesko is acting so childish I wouldn't take his word for anything.

Chesko knew the score when he listed his mods for sale. We all did. Valve made it crystal clear to ALL OF US that anything listed that later needed to be taken down would remain on the site to be available to anyone who had paid for a copy already. Whatever happens from here is going to be between Chesko's lawyer and Valve's legal team. I don't predict victory for him.

We as authors can terminate the listings at any time. They then become invisible to anyone but us, Valve, Bethesda, and the people who already paid for it.

I agree that 24 hours is a bit short, but it's 24 more hours than you get for buying a full sized game that turns out to be bug ridden trash that you can't play and might be out as much as $60 for. I've been burned by bad games myself and as a result became a lot more cautious about what I'll buy there.

I would not blame anyone one bit for being mad that they bought a mod that turns out to be garbage and didn't find out until 3 or 4 days later. Provided the problem is actually with the mod, which in many cases isn't always true.

[gsb444]

Well, if nothing else you got a new lifetime premium member, since this whole thing has reminded me how much I take this place for granted sometimes. It was definitely time to remedy that.

[lolmoper]

f*#@ Valve, Now every modder will be encouraged to work on stuff for the money. Seriously, Why Valve.

[megamawman]

In response to post #24611249.

lolmoper wrote:

Being a modder myself, I am not encouraged to go selling my content. I plan to keep my content free for all users to enjoy. I may create a Skyrim mod in the future.

[Lgm1]

In response to post #24608319. #24608409, #24608934, #24609194, #24609304, #24609334, #24609429, #24609489, #24610144, #24610454 are all replies on the same post.

XxTOXIICxKiNGxX wrote:

Rifleman556 wrote: The sad truth?

XxTOXIICxKiNGxX wrote: Yes, the sad truth. You have somebody who is stuck in the middle of all of this and is now parading as a white knight for free modding and yet he is directly profiting off all of this madness. It's not a major profit by any means, it's actually only 1-5% depending on the mods selected service providers but it's still a profit. Nexus is definitely the lowest on the totem poll of people to blame in all of this but they are still on there.

Service Providers:
-Blender Foundation
-Mod Configuration Menu
-Nexus Mods
-AFK Mods
-Polycount

Why are FNIS & SKSE among many others, not listed as service providers?
These are the two biggest modding frameworks in the entire community and they are not making any profits whatsoever. It's upsetting that a hosting provider is making money before the actual creators are.

Feel free to read Dark0ne's reply on Reddit:

XxTOXIICxKiNGxX wrote: Also how about TES5Edit, Mod Organizer, Wrye Bash, BOSS/LOOT, Texture Pack Combiner and the various hair and body mods? CBBE & UNP among many more are crucial pieces to every single follower mod out there.

bigdeano89 wrote: Go back and reread Dark0nes post on Cheskos reddit post before you go blabbing about ethics please. I am honestly getting more annoyed at you people immediately jumping on misinformation to attack Nexus with. Its a DONATION that mod authors can CHOOSE to give between 1 and 5% to Nexus as a thank you for this site helping build said mod and author. It isnt mandatory, nor is Nexus making profit on it. Its exactly the same as though we donated to them here.

erlkonnig1 wrote: It's a donation. It's a way for a modder to give back to the community that helped foster his work. Nexus isn't profiting off of this any more than if the modder in question just decided to donate a portion of his earnings to the site instead of having Valve do it on his behalf.

Unless a modder requests it, the Nexus gets nothing. This is hardly a case of Valve's hand in the Nexus' wallet.

JoeyLock wrote: 1-3% cut isn't exactly going to be millions mate.

bigdeano89 wrote: Thank you, someone who actually knows whats going on erl. Dark0ne seriously just needs to post an update explaining this so we can stop constantly defending him from Cheskos obnoxious tantrum.

HadToRegister wrote:

" XxTOXIICxKiNGxX
The sad truth behind all of the madness is that Nexus is profiting from all of this in one way or another."

The sad truth behind this is everybody who is posting nonsense like this didn't read and/or Understand Dark0on'es response to the whole fiasco, and is instead making a huge kneejerk reaction based on assumption rater than fact

Dark0ne wrote: I don't like this insinuation that I'm parading as a white knight. Where have I done any parading against using Steam Workshop at all? In fact, I've openly said that I do not begrudge any mod authors who want to use this service and get paid for their work.

The people who are saying I've stood for their cause, when I haven't, and then cry foul calling me a hypocrite when it turns out I'm not, even though I openly said I wasn't, are the ones that are annoying me the most. The Nexus is free. It will remain free. That's what I've said. My apprehension has not been towards mod authors making money for their work, my apprehension has been towards how this functionality is implemented without destroying what we've built here. I will continue to express my opinions on those issues, but the people who think I'm somehow in favour of mod authors not earning money for their work have misguided themselves.

There's a behaviour in cats where when they see another cat they don't get on with and can't attack it, they'll attack something else. Floors, chairs, people: anything nearby is a potential target for the aggression they just can't let go.

The past few days has made me wonder if this behaviour is exclusive to cats. The mod authors got abuse beyond abuse when it's very much Valve in the wrong here (the whole model looks like some sort of sick social experiment) but Valve is a faceless, untouchable corporation. It's the rival cat behind the window. Yelling at it is yelling at a wall. The modders, however, have publically available profiles, email addresses and direct community engagement. And they're being clawed and shredded by a cat who's anger is really at the cat on the other side of the window.

@Dark0ne: It might be worth editing the explanation on the service provider thing into this news post. I get where you're coming from in that another news post might just cause more problems, but given how this comment section is full of discussion of it anyone viewing this news post'll see it anyway. Might be worth putting the real story at the top rather than hoping your responses are seen in the sea of "is nexus getting cuts of the paid mods?!" posts.

[LeianneH]

In response to post #24598619. #24599869, #24600084, #24600544, #24604719, #24606369, #24606589 are all replies on the same post.

LeianneG wrote:

Psijonica wrote: THIS

I agree 100% that Bethesda may license the CK. I said it before and I'll say it again; this whole problem started when "donations" popped up. Onc3e the gaming companies saw that users were willing to pay for mods, and donations are a form of payment then it was obvious to the rest of us who understand law and business that they (the gaming companies) would protect their products.

If anyone thinks that they own their mods or that you can collect money for mods that use their (the gaming companies) platform (the game itself) then you are absolutely crazy. the gaming companies are the ones who invested the money and it is they who are creating the jobs! And that is what counts. Jobs... Governments will change the laws and support the companies that create jobs in their states and countries.

In the future people will buy mods like they do music from the iStore. There will always be free mods available so there will always be a Nexusmods however, the real talented modders that create new world spaces and quests, or top notch armour models and massive game change mods will test their alpha and beta mods for free on the Nexusmods sites and then move their final updated and improved mod to Steam.

It is inevitable...

Ask any old timer what they feel about the kids who think they own their mods... they used to think they were crazy and disliked it. Now those kids are adults and spoiled the modding commmunity and so we are now left with a new generation who not only beleive that they own their mods, that they can pay modders a 'tip" or "donation" without consequence.

I don't like it but I have to say, "I told you so."

CiderMuffin wrote: Actually from the looks of it most of those kinds of modders (trainwiz, the mannimarco team, Beyond skyrim, Elianora.) disapprove of this practice greatly and it could follow suit with even more world-building mod teams and modders. Sure there are going to be those ones that believe they should get paid for their work but in the end the chances of a big mod like Falskaar or Wrymstooth would end up doing worse on the paid mod market as their content is so big it would take over the refund period to do everything they offer and for players to see if the mod causes problems.

Psijonica wrote: @ CiderMuffin

You are making some big assumptions and I disagree will your main point.

If you read what I wrote then you should know already that Trainwiz (god bless him) is an old time modder and who doesn't fall into this new generation. I predicted this would happen 4 years ago over at Modsreloaded and I was attacked and laughed at. My post is still there so I have proof of the prediction that the future would be pay-for-mods and that the gaming companies would be the ones to enforce it.

Just like today I predicted that the gaming companies will continue to protect their assets. It is a no-brainer.

There is a way that the Nexusmods could fight back but I am not willing to share my business model yet and I am not convinced that Darone is really the white night he is proclaiming himself as. Time will tell...

Just because trainwiz and other modders, who by the way are financially secure in their lives won't charge for their DLC typee mods, I already know for a fact that their are modding communities that are creating DLC type mods for sale on STEAM right now.

Sorry but it is time to open your eyes. I know you don't like what you are hearing but I promise you that you really won't like what you wil;l soon be seeing.

adragon82 wrote: Fear mongering?

I take it you never played Sims 2 or Spore?

Outside of the Mod the Sims site it was TOXIC and there were even lawsuits by modders against each other.

As for Spore, the game ate itself and modders were flagging work for "similarities" claiming their ideas were being copied...it stifled the game because people were not working together, not collaborating at all.

What Nexus needs to do is just expand their donations, include the button on ALL mod pages and make it so any amount can be donated...even 50 cents.

The last thing we need is for modders to start guarding their resources and not sharing in hopes to lessen the amount of competition to make more money.

reyzark wrote: kudos for u Adragon

CiderMuffin wrote: Adragon is absolutely right. It's not fear-mongering when we actually have examples to use.

Psijonica - thank you for thoughtful intelligent responses to my post.

The rest of you who commented - please read the post before responding with complete and utter nonsense. If you can write ... I'm going to conclude you can also READ.

[Sphinx019]

I agree with you fully, Dark0ne. Well said.

[anonownsyou]

In response to post #24608314. #24608419, #24608604, #24608679, #24608689, #24608739, #24609864, #24610079, #24610199, #24610329 are all replies on the same post.

mineturtule wrote:

Rifleman556 wrote: Do people not understand Legal reasons?

mineturtule wrote: What legal reason is there to say "free mods free mods" then taking money from the selling of the mods? I think that's called playing the ends against the middle.Or simply being two faced.

bigdeano89 wrote: More to the point, does NO ONE read anything other than bolded text? Dark0ne himself responds ON THAT REDDIT POST. I'm not even going to paste the info back again, I have done that half a dozen times so far. Go and read it yourself please.

Draugas wrote: I've seen that theres the option for the modder to list people who helped them create the mod so they get a portion of the money from sales. So Nexus doesn't get a portion of all sales, but gets something if the modder lists them.

IMO I don't see a problem with this (not that I'm supporting anything Valvthesda is doing with paid mods, I'm not). If a modder wants to tip Nexus to show support, I'm for it.

I think I saw it comes out of Valvthesda's cut, not the modder's, which is even better if true.

But to reiterate, I don't support the entire scheme in any way, shape or form. I'm afraid Valvthesda will continue this no matter how much noise users make, however.

CiderMuffin wrote: It's a DONATION, he isn't forcing modders to credit the Nexus as a source provider the mod makers are doing that themselves. He also stated NUMEROUS TIMES that he isn't opposed to the idea of modders making money off of their work it's just not his vision for the Nexus.

Don't listen to Chesko as they are having a temper tantrum because they messed up and want to make others suffer.

zanity wrote: Formally working with Valve and Bethesda when Valve and Bethesda are involved in such despicable acts is the worst idea possible. At a time like this, clean hands are ESSENTIAL. Remember, anyone has the right to help distribute Skyrim mods provided for FREE, so no-one is forced to work with Bethesda.

Sadly, as the owner of Valve knows, money corrupts- so one simply has to accumulate enough money to solve all business issues via financial corruption. Valve believes gamers are stupid enough to cheer mega-rich entities that attempt to keep gaming in the equivalent of the lawless 'wild west'- look how hard Valve fought to prevent Steam sales falling under EU laws on distance selling and consumer protection rights. Valve LOST, but the fact that Valve argued in court that digital game distribution companies are "ABOVE THE LAW" shows the mindset of these entities.

Zenimax had the perfect opportunity to FRESH START paid modding with Fallout 4- ensuring that from the beginning every correct legal mechanism was in place, and that would be commercial modders were completely educated in their legal responsibilities. Many would have been saddened at Fallout 4 modding going commercial, BUT it would be a completely reasonable experiment for Zenimax with ZERO impact on pre-existing situations.

Introducing paid modding for Skyrim is, by contrast, unforgivable. It is Valve attempting to increase the current lawless wild-west of modding to the power infinity, so it can leech off the commercial chaos like a money vampire. It is like an old 'gold rush' where tens of thousands of young men are 'invited' to waste their lives rainbow chasing while the mining giants wait in the wings to pick up the pieces for certain profit.

Charging for Skyrim mods is like a host charging dinner guests because "people deserve to make money from their time in the kitchen'. You want to make money from cooking? Go work in a restaurant. It is the same with software. The 'rules' of modding arose precisely because the work was intended to be offered for 'free'. When payment is involved, the Law states that the rules MUST change.

Nexus should explicitly join with everyone else to put pressure on Zenimax to reverse the decision over paid Skyrim mods. Zenimax should be informed, in the clearest terms, that paid software of ANY type comes with strict legal requirements, and if Zenimax takes the bigger part of the mod cost, zenimax carries full legal responsibility to ensure all necessary laws are met.

Such actions would assist Zenimax's project for paid Fallout 4 mods to meet required legal standards from the very beginning, and thus maybe help create a whole new type of modding community. Indeed, Zenimax could take responsibility for PURCHASING emerging fundamental Fallout 4 mod resources, and offer those resources for free (legally) to Fallout 4 paid end-user mod authors.

mALX1 wrote:

valvthesda, lol! You said it true though, there is no stopping this snowball rolling we need to just make sure it doesn't Steamroll Nexus down in its path.

HadToRegister wrote:

mineturtule 0 kudos 165 posts
I am also considering removing my content from the Nexus. Why? The problem is that Robin et al, for perfectly good political reasons, have positioned themselves as essentially the champions of free mods and that they would never implement a for-pay system. However, The Nexus is a listed Service Provider on the curated Workshop, and they are profiting from Workshop sales.

Please actually read the FACTS and Robin's reply, rather than fomenting chaos with assumptions rather than facts

Draugas wrote: mALX1 ^.^

I saw somewhere people trying to come up with an amalgamation of the two names and Valvthesda popped into my head a few hours ago. I think it works. ;p

Oh, and I won't be charging if people want to use it in their own posts. :D

Dark0ne never said 'free mods free mods', what he said was 'free Nexus', and as far as I can tell it's still free. It's clear to anyone with two brain cells to rub together (yep, I went there, a scathing indictment I know) that he can readily get behind people getting paid for their work. With a bit of thoroughness and some light reading, it should become apparent that Dark0ne has not been 'championing' free mods, only the free Nexus. However, keeping Nexus free costs money, and if Valve is offering no-strings-attached money as a courtesy, even if it's just a little bit, then the Nexus damn well ought to take it. It's the least they (Valve) can do after this catastrophe.

Just because 'Valvethesda' has handled this cash-grab disastrously, what with their system pretty much encouraging cheap, easy-to-produce-and-discard and often-stolen material for sale, doesn't mean it wasn't an impressive gesture from Valve to unconditionally share a sliver of their own (unreasonably substantial) profits with the Nexus, and even then only if the Author chooses to list the Nexus.

This pretty much qualifies it as a donation to a service (the Nexus, which apparently we take for granted), which the Nexus already accepts. Treating the money Valve would tight-fistedly hand over to the Nexus (and when Dark0ne says it will all go towards running it, you can believe it) as anything but a donation and a courtesy is asinine and shouldn't be perpetuated.

People are angry enough without forgetting who their friends are and pointing fingers at people and services that have provided for us while asking for nothing in return but community and support. We should all be sticking up for the Nexus now more than ever. Edited April 24, 2015 by anonownsyou

[M48A5]

A quick scan of the previous 43 pages has not revealed one thing that could come of this.

 

For all you people that have allowed Steam to control your computers, what is to keep Steam from inserting a code into every download paid mod?

 

This way when you sign on to Steam or verify your game cache, they could verify that you have paid mods and delete any and all unpaid mods.

 

If you don't think this could happen, no one thought there would be a charge for mods, either.

 

This is just another reason why I will never purchase a game that requires the use of a third party to play the game.

[sunshinenbrick]

I was listening to the radio the other day and they were talking about open source software and DRM in general, and an analogy one of the journalists made struck a cord with me. It went something like this:

 

"Closed software and and the business models that are forming around it are comparable to if you had a recipe book in your house and you decided to cook one of the recipes. While reading the ingredients you noticed that it says you should use 500ml of double cream. Let's say you decide this is a little excessive, as you are not getting any thinner, and replace the double cream with creme fraiche. The new ways business are restricting access to their software is the same as if the publisher of our cookbook charged you for doing this."

 

On a similar note there has recently been a legal stance supported by the Entertainment Software Association that if an "obsolete" game is resurrected by enthusiasts after the original developer ended their support for the game (and/or it's servers) then this can be legally enforced as hacking and copyright infringement. Here is a link to the article --> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/04/videogame-publishers-no-preserving-abandoned-games-even-museums-and-archives

 

We MUST NOT be quiet about this as we have consumer power. We may not be able to stop these markets from emerging all together but and we can and must fight to change things for the better or we will only have ourselves to blame. Changing the economy comes from within. Use donations that go straight to the creator. This applies to music and all other art forms as well, DO NOT let companies buy and sell our arts and culture!