Drawing a line under recent events and moving on

[Dark0ne]

Since the announcement of paid modding last week the internet has been awash with discussion on the topic from all angles and extremes. I myself have written over 10,000 words on the topic over the past month.

 

I have had to remind myself that I had the privilege of having a bit of forewarning about this happening; I had time to go through all the mental states, think of lots of the permutations and think of all the different arguments for and against the system, so when the announcement came, the shock for me was not knowing when it would happen or how they would do it, rather than not knowing it would happen at all.

 

I want to begin to draw a line under this ordeal. This does not mean I want to forget it ever happened or think that this won't crop up again in the not too distant future. It will. Of course it will. But life on the Nexus must go on, and in order for us to move forward we need to stop talking about the events of the past week so much and continue on where we left off before this all started while trying to pick up the broken pieces in our community.

 

Ironically (I know), before I sign off on the topic for now, I have taken part in two articles in the public media over the past week. It is my intention to do no more news articles or interviews in the media about this topic unless some new developments occur. I have already respectfully refused to do a few because of this. Of the two articles I took part in, one was a Q&A with Rock, Paper, Shotgun, the other was a close to 2 hour discussion with TotalBiscuit and Brumbek, author of SMIM . You can find that interview on

now, and it should be on TotalBiscuit's SoundCloud by the end of the day. The former gives you some insight in to my take on things, and the latter is a very off-the-cuff conversation between the three of us. And a conversation is all it is. It is not a debate, it's not an attempt at an unbiased news article approaching the situation from every angle and it doesn't cover or intend to cover all the angles of this situation. But if you're interested in hearing a few opinions on a few different aspects of the topic, or if you want to hear my voice coming through an £8 Logitech desktop microphone I bought 10 years ago because I hate using headset microphones, then you might be interested.

 

I will say that, since finding out about this development a month ago, and since the actual launch of it last week, my opinions and views have been swayed massively during this time. I've read some excellent points from mod users, mod authors and game developers and I've read a lot of really, really dumb points too. But the point is, there are some excellent points and arguments to be made from all angles in this topic and, if you're anything like me, you want to try and see it from every angle and come to your own conclusions from as enlightened a perspective as possible. I might look back on what I have said in a day, a week, a month, a year or a decade and think "Heck, I got it wrong there!" or "Nah, I don't agree with that any more". For me, it's not about having principles and stubbornly sticking to them as much as it is approaching the situation with an open mind with the willingness to have my opinion changed by well thought out and reasonable critique. I encourage all of you to try and do the same, no matter what your view on the topic is.

 

 

On the topic of donations

 

The paid modding fiasco has put a spotlight on donations for mod authors. Of course, we've had a donate button on the sites since 2012 but many have said it isn't prominent enough and many didn't even realise we had one.

 

I like the idea of a donation system and I don't have a problem with a more prominent donation system. What I don't want is a site littered with adfly links, advertisements/demands for donations from mod authors and desperate begging for money. We need to find a system that is tasteful, not insulting to the senses, universal, yet still effective.

 

Many have brought up payment platforms like Patreon and Flattr. I would love to integrate these platforms, especially if they have a decent API where we can plug it seamlessly into the sites and make it look nice. Unfortunately that's not my choice to make. Legally, and for my piece of mind, this needs to be run by Bethesda to ensure they're OK with the idea. I am aware that at least one mod author is talking with representatives of Bethesda right now on this topic and we will wait to see what they have to say. If they give the go ahead for Patreon then we'll begin work on integrating it however we can. If they say they're not OK with it, we won't.

 

Change isn't going to come over night and I'm not going to rush out lots of big sweeping changes straight away. If you're a mod author with thoughts on this then you should go to the private mod author forums (a part of our main forums) to make your thoughts known with all the others discussing it. But in the mean-time our rules are the same as they always have been on donations. You can't charge money for your mods, specifically ask for or talk about donations in your descriptions/images/file comments and you can't solicit or advertise other products or services (like adfly links, or a few G2A links I saw crop up recently).

 

We're in the process of reviewing all the information being given to us on donations, at which point I'm sure some changes will be made, but in the mean-time it's business as usual.

 

 

The community manager position

 

I publicised a paid job opening on the sites a few months ago for a full-time community manager role. A few weeks back we took the listing down as we'd had over 300 applications, some of which were absolutely fantastic. I've read every single application and have created a "short" list of 30 names that I was in the process of whittling that down to a smaller number still when this fiasco hit, which has since taken all of my time.

 

I know, now more than ever, I really need this role to be filled, but the application process is taking a long time. I'm obviously taking it very seriously and analysing all the candidates for suitability. Because there are many, many really good fits who have applied already I will be sending out emails to people on the "short short" list in the not too distant future to get them to answer a few questions.

 

I wanted to update you all that the role has not been filled yet, I haven't sent out any emails, and the process is still on-going. And a big thank you to those of you who applied (and a big "what the heck, guys?" to those of you who sent in an application without telling me what your Nexus username is in your application...duh!!!).

[Jokerine]

I, for one, am ready to move on indeed. Thanks again for the talk with TB, it was really fun to listen to :)

[Xavathos]

In response to post #24858039.

Dark0ne wrote: Since the announcement of paid modding last week the internet has been awash with discussion on the topic from all angles and extremes. I myself have written over 10,000 words on the topic over the past month.

I have had to remind myself that I had the privilege of having a bit of forewarning about this happening; I had time to go through all the mental states, think of lots of the permutations and think of all the different arguments for and against the system, so when the announcement came, the shock for me was not knowing when it would happen or how they would do it, rather than not knowing it would happen at all.

I want to begin to draw a line under this ordeal. This does not mean I want to forget it ever happened or think that this won't crop up again in the not too distant future. It will. Of course it will. But life on the Nexus must go on, and in order for us to move forward we need to stop talking about the events of the past week so much and continue on where we left off before this all started while trying to pick up the broken pieces in our community.

Ironically (I know), before I sign off on the topic for now, I have taken part in two articles in the public media over the past week. It is my intention to do no more news articles or interviews in the media about this topic unless some new developments occur. I have already respectfully refused to do a few because of this. Of the two articles I took part in, one was a Q&A with Rock, Paper, Shotgun, the other was a close to 2 hour discussion with TotalBiscuit and Brumbek, author of SMIM . You can find that interview on

now, and it should be on TotalBiscuit's SoundCloud by the end of the day. The former gives you some insight in to my take on things, and the latter is a very off-the-cuff conversation between the three of us. And a conversation is all it is. It is not a debate, it's not an attempt at an unbiased news article approaching the situation from every angle and it doesn't cover or intend to cover all the angles of this situation. But if you're interested in hearing a few opinions on a few different aspects of the topic, or if you want to hear my voice coming through an £8 Logitech desktop microphone I bought 10 years ago because I hate using headset microphones, then you might be interested.

I will say that, since finding out about this development a month ago, and since the actual launch of it last week, my opinions and views have been swayed massively during this time. I've read some excellent points from mod users, mod authors and game developers and I've read a lot of really, really dumb points too. But the point is, there are some excellent points and arguments to be made from all angles in this topic and, if you're anything like me, you want to try and see it from every angle and come to your own conclusions from as enlightened a perspective as possible. I might look back on what I have said in a day, a week, a month, a year or a decade and think "Heck, I got it wrong there!" or "Nah, I don't agree with that any more". For me, it's not about having principles and stubbornly sticking to them as much as it is approaching the situation with an open mind with the willingness to have my opinion changed by well thought out and reasonable critique. I encourage all of you to try and do the same, no matter what your view on the topic is.


On the topic of donations

The paid modding fiasco has put a spotlight on donations for mod authors. Of course, we've had a donate button on the sites since 2012 but many have said it isn't prominent enough and many didn't even realise we had one.

I like the idea of a donation system and I don't have a problem with a more prominent donation system. What I don't want is a site littered with adfly links, advertisements/demands for donations from mod authors and desperate begging for money. We need to find a system that is tasteful, not insulting to the senses, universal, yet still effective.

Many have brought up payment platforms like Patreon and Flattr. I would love to integrate these platforms, especially if they have a decent API where we can plug it seamlessly into the sites and make it look nice. Unfortunately that's not my choice to make. Legally, and for my piece of mind, this needs to be run by Bethesda to ensure they're OK with the idea. I am aware that at least one mod author is talking with representatives of Bethesda right now on this topic and we will wait to see what they have to say. If they give the go ahead for Patreon then we'll begin work on integrating it however we can. If they say they're not OK with it, we won't.

Change isn't going to come over night and I'm not going to rush out lots of big sweeping changes straight away. If you're a mod author with thoughts on this then you should go to the private mod author forums (a part of our main forums) to make your thoughts known with all the others discussing it. But in the mean-time our rules are the same as they always have been on donations. You can't charge money for your mods, specifically ask for or talk about donations in your descriptions/images/file comments and you can't solicit or advertise other products or services (like adfly links, or a few G2A links I saw crop up recently).

We're in the process of reviewing all the information being given to us on donations, at which point I'm sure some changes will be made, but in the mean-time it's business as usual.


The community manager position

I publicised a paid job opening on the sites a few months ago for a full-time community manager role. A few weeks back we took the listing down as we'd had over 300 applications, some of which were absolutely fantastic. I've read every single application and have created a "short" list of 30 names that I was in the process of whittling that down to a smaller number still when this fiasco hit, which has since taken all of my time.

I know, now more than ever, I really need this role to be filled, but the application process is taking a long time. I'm obviously taking it very seriously and analysing all the candidates for suitability. Because there are many, many really good fits who have applied already I will be sending out emails to people on the "short short" list in the not too distant future to get them to answer a few questions.

I wanted to update you all that the role has not been filled yet, I haven't sent out any emails, and the process is still on-going. And a big thank you to those of you who applied (and a big "what the heck, guys?" to those of you who sent in an application without telling me what your Nexus username is in your application...duh!!!).

Well said Dark0ne. Couldn't agree more. Let's move on! :)

The interview was great, indeed, I think even John underestimated how much you and Nick had to say on this topic, haha. Edited May 1, 2015 by Xavathos

[Terramaris]

Darn, I had a 500+ word draft on my computer about how to implement a Paetron system into Nexus, and was interviewing modders to get their opinions before I post the thread. Since it is up to Bethesda, I believe I will not be needing to post it anymore. Seems redundant if you already agree with it.

[LouGilmore93]

In response to post #24858039. #24858419 is also a reply to the same post.

Dark0ne wrote: Since the announcement of paid modding last week the internet has been awash with discussion on the topic from all angles and extremes. I myself have written over 10,000 words on the topic over the past month.

I have had to remind myself that I had the privilege of having a bit of forewarning about this happening; I had time to go through all the mental states, think of lots of the permutations and think of all the different arguments for and against the system, so when the announcement came, the shock for me was not knowing when it would happen or how they would do it, rather than not knowing it would happen at all.

I want to begin to draw a line under this ordeal. This does not mean I want to forget it ever happened or think that this won't crop up again in the not too distant future. It will. Of course it will. But life on the Nexus must go on, and in order for us to move forward we need to stop talking about the events of the past week so much and continue on where we left off before this all started while trying to pick up the broken pieces in our community.

Ironically (I know), before I sign off on the topic for now, I have taken part in two articles in the public media over the past week. It is my intention to do no more news articles or interviews in the media about this topic unless some new developments occur. I have already respectfully refused to do a few because of this. Of the two articles I took part in, one was a Q&A with Rock, Paper, Shotgun, the other was a close to 2 hour discussion with TotalBiscuit and Brumbek, author of SMIM . You can find that interview on

now, and it should be on TotalBiscuit's SoundCloud by the end of the day. The former gives you some insight in to my take on things, and the latter is a very off-the-cuff conversation between the three of us. And a conversation is all it is. It is not a debate, it's not an attempt at an unbiased news article approaching the situation from every angle and it doesn't cover or intend to cover all the angles of this situation. But if you're interested in hearing a few opinions on a few different aspects of the topic, or if you want to hear my voice coming through an £8 Logitech desktop microphone I bought 10 years ago because I hate using headset microphones, then you might be interested.

I will say that, since finding out about this development a month ago, and since the actual launch of it last week, my opinions and views have been swayed massively during this time. I've read some excellent points from mod users, mod authors and game developers and I've read a lot of really, really dumb points too. But the point is, there are some excellent points and arguments to be made from all angles in this topic and, if you're anything like me, you want to try and see it from every angle and come to your own conclusions from as enlightened a perspective as possible. I might look back on what I have said in a day, a week, a month, a year or a decade and think "Heck, I got it wrong there!" or "Nah, I don't agree with that any more". For me, it's not about having principles and stubbornly sticking to them as much as it is approaching the situation with an open mind with the willingness to have my opinion changed by well thought out and reasonable critique. I encourage all of you to try and do the same, no matter what your view on the topic is.


On the topic of donations

The paid modding fiasco has put a spotlight on donations for mod authors. Of course, we've had a donate button on the sites since 2012 but many have said it isn't prominent enough and many didn't even realise we had one.

I like the idea of a donation system and I don't have a problem with a more prominent donation system. What I don't want is a site littered with adfly links, advertisements/demands for donations from mod authors and desperate begging for money. We need to find a system that is tasteful, not insulting to the senses, universal, yet still effective.

Many have brought up payment platforms like Patreon and Flattr. I would love to integrate these platforms, especially if they have a decent API where we can plug it seamlessly into the sites and make it look nice. Unfortunately that's not my choice to make. Legally, and for my piece of mind, this needs to be run by Bethesda to ensure they're OK with the idea. I am aware that at least one mod author is talking with representatives of Bethesda right now on this topic and we will wait to see what they have to say. If they give the go ahead for Patreon then we'll begin work on integrating it however we can. If they say they're not OK with it, we won't.

Change isn't going to come over night and I'm not going to rush out lots of big sweeping changes straight away. If you're a mod author with thoughts on this then you should go to the private mod author forums (a part of our main forums) to make your thoughts known with all the others discussing it. But in the mean-time our rules are the same as they always have been on donations. You can't charge money for your mods, specifically ask for or talk about donations in your descriptions/images/file comments and you can't solicit or advertise other products or services (like adfly links, or a few G2A links I saw crop up recently).

We're in the process of reviewing all the information being given to us on donations, at which point I'm sure some changes will be made, but in the mean-time it's business as usual.


The community manager position

I publicised a paid job opening on the sites a few months ago for a full-time community manager role. A few weeks back we took the listing down as we'd had over 300 applications, some of which were absolutely fantastic. I've read every single application and have created a "short" list of 30 names that I was in the process of whittling that down to a smaller number still when this fiasco hit, which has since taken all of my time.

I know, now more than ever, I really need this role to be filled, but the application process is taking a long time. I'm obviously taking it very seriously and analysing all the candidates for suitability. Because there are many, many really good fits who have applied already I will be sending out emails to people on the "short short" list in the not too distant future to get them to answer a few questions.

I wanted to update you all that the role has not been filled yet, I haven't sent out any emails, and the process is still on-going. And a big thank you to those of you who applied (and a big "what the heck, guys?" to those of you who sent in an application without telling me what your Nexus username is in your application...duh!!!).

Xavathos wrote: Well said Dark0ne. Couldn't agree more. Let's move on! :)

The interview was great, indeed, I think even John underestimated how much you and Nick had to say on this topic, haha.

Fantastic posts, Dark0ne - I personally can't wait to get past this and get back to the core of this website and mod. I loved the video you did with TB and Brumbek - I really like the idea of you possibly implementing Patreon into Nexus, would be a very nice way of introudcing "Community" funding to the great mods that are showcased here.

Again, thanks for the great posts and I hope the Nexus and its community can learn and grow from this experience.

-Stay Strong Brothers and Sisters, for we are a legion of many and we are unbreakable.


(Edit: FIxed grammatical errors and spelling mistakes.) Edited May 1, 2015 by LouGilmore93

[zcul]

Drawing a line, yea, athough that might be hard to do so. It is more worth now to focus on re-establishing the fine athmosphere we had had in this community before that debate began. Edited May 1, 2015 by zcul

[pokenar]

In response to post #24858524.

freedom613 wrote: Darn, I had a 500+ word draft on my computer about how to implement a Paetron system into Nexus, and was interviewing modders to get their opinions before I post the thread. Since it is up to Bethesda, I believe I will not be needing to post it anymore. Seems redundant if you already agree with it.

Post it anyways, there will no doubt be stubborn people who will be against even that, could help convince them.

[wulfharth]

Sometimes an idea once presented will persist as a part of the public consciousness forever. Finding out that Bethesda is in favor of individuals being paid to create content that adds life to their games will cause a massive change in the entire modding community.

 

Expect to see professional DLC creating studios in the future. Modders will soon have an opportunity to mod full-time and make a living from it. I wouldn't be surprised if these studios became sub-studios of Bethesda someday.

 

The downside is that the most professional and biggest mods will be paid mods (much like now). The upside is that there will be more DLC quality mods available and probably with additional support from Bethesda in terms of rigging files and code.

 

I have never failed to buy a mod for a TES game since Morrowind, and I've considered them all money well spent. I really look forward to the prospect of more of that type of content becoming available. The sooner this site adapts to this possibility, the better it will be able to stay a foundation piece of this community.

[Theseus12]

I sent in an application, but I doubt that I would be getting it, frankly. Not that long of a member.

[pokenar]

In response to post #24859024.

wulfharth wrote: Sometimes an idea once presented will persist as a part of the public consciousness forever. Finding out that Bethesda is in favor of individuals being paid to create content that adds life to their games will cause a massive change in the entire modding community.

Expect to see professional DLC creating studios in the future. Modders will soon have an opportunity to mod full-time and make a living from it. I wouldn't be surprised if these studios became sub-studios of Bethesda someday.

The downside is that the most professional and biggest mods will be paid mods (much like now). The upside is that there will be more DLC quality mods available and probably with additional support from Bethesda in terms of rigging files and code.

I have never failed to buy a mod for a TES game since Morrowind, and I've considered them all money well spent. I really look forward to the prospect of more of that type of content becoming available. The sooner this site adapts to this possibility, the better it will be able to stay a foundation piece of this community.

I was not actually one of those against paid mods, I just didn't like the execution. there were many many many issues with how bethesda and valve did it.