Why we can't use Patreon, and talking about donations and doing more to support mod authors

[neotribe]

I think it might be worth breaking out Ye Olde Prynter and actually corresponding on paper with Bethesda's in house legal types re: Patreon, Flattr and the like, and other issues of this sort. It doesn't have to be that different, or any less generic, than the current PayPal setup.

 

Just look at it as giving the mod author the choice of which payment processor's button they want to embed in the generic donation dialog. There are legitimate reasons to want to avoid doing business with PayPal. Hard to see why Bethesda would care which payments backend is used in the current donation dialog. The ban on outright requests for donations or donation-driven updates would not have to change.

 

 

Reading through the Terms of Service of ZeniMax Media, it has become quite clear to me, after much retyping and general "de-lawyer'ing" that Bethesda "allows" PayPal links because of the fact that they cannot prove, without a doubt, that the donation to modders is because of something they did involving ZeniMax Media property. Even-so, they still "granted its use" at the start of Skyrim's modding days because they were ignorant to how large it would be, or so I think is what has happened. It was an oversight by Bethesda and its layers, and they won't allow an easier way to allow donations involving Bethesda property because they know how much it drives the community. ZeniMax Media's Terms of service section 2, subsection 2, paragraph 2, line 3 states that: "To the extent that ZeniMax cannot claim exclusive ownership rights in such UGC (User Generated Content) by operation of law or pursuant to the assignment noted above... You hereby expressly grant...license to exercise all rights of any kind or nature associated with such UGC in all formats and media".

 

 

I have a law degree. (Not currently a practicing lawyer.) This makes no sense. On the face of it, the logical implications of a PayPal button on the Nexus are as clear (or as unclear) as any other payment processor's button. Bethesda is likely concerned about the public perception that Flattr and Patreon are platforms meant to compensate creatives for their content through micro-payments at crowd-scale, rather than a generic payments platform. And given that it's a perceptual problem, reassuring them that the Nexus would frame it purely as a choice of payment processor, to which the Nexus is agnostic, might do the trick.

Edited October 8, 2015 by neotribe

[sunshinenbrick]

I think it might be worth breaking out Ye Olde Prynter...

 

Love it! Yes! Yes! and YES again!

[CaptBlakhelm]

I imagine some sort of fund that willing users can pay into. Each month (or maybe each week), the "runners" of this fund will give a portion or all of the donated funds to a mod author. (This may be a problem for mods with multiple modders). I use portion because the runners can decide if all funds are given to the mod or if a portion is given to the site to "pay for maintenance" - I'd imagine that you could count it as a Nexus Premium perk to anybody who donates to the fund.

 

As how the "Modder of the month" is chosen is kind of beyond me. The best I can imagine is either having a "board of directors" choose the mod (either randomly or manually) or have a vote based system - likely based off of votes of premium Nexus members (or maybe all of them)

[goatofdeath]

I guess I'm not quite understanding why Bethesda is the gating factor here. If they don't want it on their properties, that's fine. Seems like a simple if (Bethesda) {Don't show Patreon of Flattr buttons} would do the job.

 

Mods for more supportive companies could then have donations allowed through Patreon or Flattr. Assuming it does ok, that would incentivize either Bethesda to get their s*** together to support modder contributions themselves, or for them to officially bless Patreon and Flattr on the nexus in support of the modding community.

 

Just because at the moment Bethesda doesn't like it, I'm not quite seeing why the option should be taken away from the rest of the modding community that might not even be interested in modding Bethesda games.

[uisukii24]

Pray tell, why can mod authors not advertise a patreon or what have you as a means to promote donations, while the Nexus itself is DIRECTLY PROFITING from the work of these mod authors?

 

The Nexus is in a far worse condition in respect to being sued than any mod author providing a means for patronage. Site admin, it's time to cut the crap, stop lying and stop treating the people who are responsible for your income like they are second class citizens.

 

You really are disgustingly shameless.

[Meihyr]

Pray tell, why can mod authors not advertise a patreon or what have you as a means to promote donations, while the Nexus itself is DIRECTLY PROFITING from the work of these mod authors?

 

The Nexus is in a far worse condition in respect to being sued than any mod author providing a means for patronage. Site admin, it's time to cut the crap, stop lying and stop treating the people who are responsible for your income like they are second class citizens.

 

You really are disgustingly shameless.

 

No one is treating anyone like "second class citizens". People can donate to modders on the Nexus if they so choose. It's not like the option isn't there.

[sunshinenbrick]

Just to clarify a few things so we are all reading from the same page.

 

Nexus does not directly benefit from money donated to modders for their hard work. These streams are deliberately avoided from crossing.

 

Advertising, supporting, membership and the odd sponsor all go to Nexus so they can provide the platform and services that they provide (including things like bandwidth, forums, support etc...)

 

All the money donated to an author goes directly to them (via Paypal) and the Nexus never touches nor knows about it (unless of course someone tells them about it!). No mods have a price tag and nor is any of the money donated, for the mods themselves. Donations represent an appreciation and recognition of the work the modder puts in, in fact you can donate to someone who has never made a mod in their life... maybe simply because they helped you with a technical issue, made some cool artistic images, or whatever.

 

As far as Bethesda games is concerned, it is most likely a conscious choice by Nexus to just have one platform as two or more would increase the costs and cause utter mayhem and confusion for the site and its users.

 

I am all for the passion we share about the importance and significance of modding, but we need to be as constructive as possible if we are to make any progress. The idea mentioned about competitions and expos is a very good one that will go a long way to solve many issues. However the ball is firmly in the developer's court right now and we will have to see which way they play it before we can know where we stand or how to react. This does not stop us from thinking about it and planning for future possibilities, but gaining a wide and clear picture of it all is the best course of action right now.

[RonnieJay]

In response to post #29459543.

uisukii24 wrote: Pray tell, why can mod authors not advertise a patreon or what have you as a means to promote donations, while the Nexus itself is DIRECTLY PROFITING from the work of these mod authors?

The Nexus is in a far worse condition in respect to being sued than any mod author providing a means for patronage. Site admin, it's time to cut the crap, stop lying and stop treating the people who are responsible for your income like they are second class citizens.

You really are disgustingly shameless.

You can't be serious...

[evilhippo]

In response to post #29459543. #29479164 is also a reply to the same post.

uisukii24 wrote: Pray tell, why can mod authors not advertise a patreon or what have you as a means to promote donations, while the Nexus itself is DIRECTLY PROFITING from the work of these mod authors?

The Nexus is in a far worse condition in respect to being sued than any mod author providing a means for patronage. Site admin, it's time to cut the crap, stop lying and stop treating the people who are responsible for your income like they are second class citizens.

You really are disgustingly shameless.

RonnieJay wrote: You can't be serious...

I assume this is satire.

[Gr33dl0ck]

In response to post #29459543. #29479164, #29495650 are all replies on the same post.

uisukii24 wrote: Pray tell, why can mod authors not advertise a patreon or what have you as a means to promote donations, while the Nexus itself is DIRECTLY PROFITING from the work of these mod authors?

The Nexus is in a far worse condition in respect to being sued than any mod author providing a means for patronage. Site admin, it's time to cut the crap, stop lying and stop treating the people who are responsible for your income like they are second class citizens.

You really are disgustingly shameless.

RonnieJay wrote: You can't be serious...

evilhippo wrote: I assume this is satire.

I am debating wether I should report you or just leave you here so people could throw them tomatoes at you.