Problems with the story [SPOILERS]

[1096bimu]

I know there's a spoiler section, nobody's in there so I'll just post this here.

 

So I beat the game, twice, with the institute and railroad endings. The game's not bad but I have a couple of issues with the story.

 

1. The Institute's actions don't make sense.

Piper talks about kidnappings and the sort by the institute throughout the commonwealth but there is no mention or explanation of it anywhere, you can't ask Father about any of this stuff, nor do you find any evidence of human experimentation in the environment.

 

2. The Institute's view on the synths don't make sense. Most scientists and researchers who do things like neuroscience or artificial intelligence don't believe in such things as free will, or dualism. Basically the consensus is that humans are purely physical and all human characteristics are results of physical interactions. It's almost impossible to imagine that a group of scientists who can create perfect human replicas would believe otherwise.

It would make much more sense if the Institute took a view similar to the slave owners in history, that the Synths are less than human, maybe slightly less average intelligence or something?

 

3.It was obvious from the start that Shaun is either already dead from old age, or already really old, because there was suspiciously no way to tell how long has past since the kidnapping. Having all the Kellogg story just felt like a trick of deception instead of interesting twist.

 

4.If Kellogg could live for a hundred years, and the synth Shaun could live forever. How come they couldn't make Father live longer? It makes no sense because Kellogg looks exactly the same as the kidnapping, which means he was enhanced 60 years ago when Shaun was still a baby. You'd think that in like 30 years they'd be able to enhance anybody and do a better job?

 

5.It makes no sense how the Railroad even thought about taking down BOS, unless they expected to have a super soldier like the player on their side. Also the BOS just arrived recently, how did they even know each other so well? The Railroad probably wouldn't even know about BOS because there is no internet. And the BOS shouldn't know about the Railroad because nobody does.

 

6.The Institute has superior technology but their guns and amor don't have any advantages why? Considering their limited supply of power shouldn't they focus on less elite forces with better equipments? Maybe with their own power amor? Instead they just throw in armies of not very useful synths.

 

7.This is more like, lore stuff. When someone dies in power amor shouldn't it just power down into the empty stance? Instead of rag doll all over the floor? You could still make the amor inaccessible for gameplay reasons and just say that it won't open unless the occupant agrees.

 

8.Piper's motivations for abandoning her news paper and following the player around makes little sense. I mean yea she's a news reporter but why is she following me like a bodyguard? Dense says he'll follow you but after you dismiss him he doesn't go back to his BOS missions he just stays at your settlement doing nothing. Like, I thought the BOS was here for a reason? Shouldn't you be helping?

 

9.Father says that he let the player out, but he lets his Corsers to kill the player. Even though we know that in this world no normal human could defeat one of those. Does Father want to outright kill the player? He even lets the Player face Kellogg when we also know that Kellogg has been playing this game for over a hundred years there's basically no chance the player will come out on top from the game word's perspective.

 

10.Vault 111 is full of subjects from before the war, somehow the Institute kills all of them so that the Player can be special.

 

11.The Synths are immune to radiation, Virgil's hiding place doesn't really give him any advantages.

 

12.If the Insatiate wasn't already powered by nuclear, where did they get their power from? Geothermal? Even Diamond city is nuclear powered. Hell even laser guns are nuclear powered. Why is this such an issue for them?

Edited November 15, 2015 by 1096bimu

[Deleted1779622User]

Second all those issues.

[TeamBacon]

Second all those issues.

 

I disagree with all those issues.

[Boombro]

 

1. The Institute's actions don't make sense.

Piper talks about kidnappings and the sort by the institute throughout the commonwealth but there is no mention or explanation of it anywhere, you can't ask Father about any of this stuff, nor do you find any evidence of human experimentation in the environment.

Look around. They are used for different stuff.

 

 

 

2. The Institute's view on the synths don't make sense. Most scientists and researchers who do things like neuroscience or artificial intelligence don't believe in such things as free will, or dualism. Basically the consensus is that humans are purely physical and all human characteristics are results of physical interactions. It's almost impossible to imagine that a group of scientists who can create perfect human replicas would believe otherwise.

It would make much more sense if the Institute took a view similar to the slave owners in history, that the Synths are less than human, maybe slightly less average intelligence or something?

Maybe they just don't know?

 

 

4.If Kellogg could live for a hundred years, and the synth Shaun could live forever. How come they couldn't make Father live longer? It makes no sense because Kellogg looks exactly the same as the kidnapping, which means he was enhanced 60 years ago when Shaun was still a baby. You'd think that in like 30 years they'd be able to enhance anybody and do a better job?

Father is sick, kellogg not.

 

 

5.It makes no sense how the Railroad even thought about taking down BOS, unless they expected to have a super soldier like the player on their side. Also the BOS just arrived recently, how did they even know each other so well? The Railroad probably wouldn't even know about BOS because there is no internet. And the BOS shouldn't know about the Railroad because nobody does.

Dude, you just plant bombs. And it was plan B.

 

And they conflict with BoS later in the main quest, the plan was made after. The BoS knows about the RR because they been in bunker hill and other places.

Yes, they are well hidden, but doesn't mean BoS have zero chance of finding them out.

 

 

6.The Institute has superior technology but their guns and amor don't have any advantages why? Considering their limited supply of power shouldn't they focus on less elite forces with better equipments? Maybe with their own power amor? Instead they just throw in armies of not very useful synths.

They are useful, just not against you.

 

 

 

7.This is more like, lore stuff. When someone dies in power amor shouldn't it just power down into the empty stance? Instead of rag doll all over the floor? You could still make the amor inaccessible for gameplay reasons and just say that it won't open unless the occupant agrees.

Game engine limitations? To stop making you have 100204 PA frames?

 

 

8.Piper's motivations for abandoning her news paper and following the player around makes little sense. I mean yea she's a news reporter but why is she following me like a bodyguard? Dense says he'll follow you but after you dismiss him he doesn't go back to his BOS missions he just stays at your settlement doing nothing. Like, I thought the BOS was here for a reason? Shouldn't you be helping?

For better stories. The PC goes to badass places and meets all sort of people.

And cancel when "where do you want the follower to go." window and they will go back home.

 

 

9.Father says that he let the player out, but he lets his Corsers to kill the player. Even though we know that in this world no normal human could defeat one of those. Does Father want to outright kill the player? He even lets the Player face Kellogg when we also know that Kellogg has been playing this game for over a hundred years there's basically no chance the player will come out on top from the game word's perspective.

Odd story carve.

It because he knows that you will kill him. But doesn't want to help since

He want you to be the next head.

he wants to make sure of your skills.

 

 

10.Vault 111 is full of subjects from before the war, somehow the Institute kills all of them so that the Player can be special.

They didn't, they died because of the malfunction. You woke up because of it and because wanted your baby back.

 

 

 

11.The Synths are immune to radiation, Virgil's hiding place doesn't really give him any advantages.

But not to deathclaws, stingwings and all sorts of horrible stuff in the glowing sea that can kill anything but the PC.

 

 

.If the Insatiate wasn't already powered by nuclear, where did they get their power from? Geothermal? Even Diamond city is nuclear powered. Hell even laser guns are nuclear powered. Why is this such an issue for them?

Just because it endless doesn't mean it flow/output is strong enough. That was the problem.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Boombro

[starlitegirl]

Warning for spoilers....

 

The Institute itself is divided on how real synths are. If you tour the facility and question as many of the named scientists as possible, you see that as a rule it seems that the older ones feel they are not human and the younger ones feel they are closer to human. I think this might be due to the more human looking and acting ones of the third generation and especially the boy. I think that was when they starting calling Shaun 'Father' which is when it became more twisted if you ask me. Nick is pretty cool but having a synth child freak out that you might abandon him is totally disturbing. He seems to be unaware that he is a synth which really makes you wonder about the kidnappings and rumored replacements of humans with synths.

 

The newer generation working at the institute is shades of crazy. Father is too but he has a smidge of sanity left in there though it's really hard to access it. If you ally with him when he finally come out from his hidey hole and makes a comment about the world, you might want to shoot him in the face after all the work you have done in building settlements. Sadly, you can't. His actions show how he his 'upbringing' left him devoid of compassion. You are nothing more than a curiosity to him with some element of sentimentality woven in there. His word was 'experiment'. Couldn't punch him in the face on that one either. It's a mix of disgust and pity that I feel for him mixed in with the fact that he is my son and he is this way because of what his kidnappers did to him. How would he ever develop properly? He had no chance. So that just makes it supremely sad. I took his side out of guilt because he was my son. But it was like resigning one's self to a life of horrors out of love. I didn't even finish the game. After a couple of quests I just stopped after I made that announcement. It was too disturbing. Too dark for a game that should have measures of fun.

[jcdenton2012]

I can actually explain some of The Institute's motivations here. According to existing information, The Institute, did at one time try and cooperate with the surface factions, but as the same loading screen states: "It failed due to mutual distrust." So, the big question, how do you win a war with the surface world with limited resources? As super-advanced as The Institute's technology is, such technology and weapons are ultimately finite limited in quantity, thus... they came up with an unorthodox solution. They fight, not with an army like the Brotherhood of Steel, but with subterfuge. Instead of waging a war with soldiers, they use proxies to control factions, control settlements, control ideas... control people. Sure, they have some combat synths, but the real threat are the ones who infiltrate and manipulate. In short... they do Illuminati bullshit. The funny part about that video is that it fits everything The Institute stands for perfectly... god I love Deus Ex...

 

In fact, if you were to surmise the Brotherhood of Steel's desires into a Deus Ex ending... it would probably be the Templar One, but it's easy to laugh at Maxson's ass-backwards ideals isn't it? :3

[Talwyn224]

There are some very good points raised by the OP here, most of which I agree with.

 

I've still yet to finish the game as I got about 1/2 way through and decided to "re-roll" and start again because reasons...

 

But still, there are a lot of narrative inconsistencies/plot/logic flaws which I've come to expect for a Bethesda game.

[Raycheetah]

One of the great failings of FO4 is the story, no doubt about it. There are a lotta things which make no sense, from a variety of faction PoVs. While a complex, interwoven plot would be difficult to fit into an RPG, it isn't necessarily impossible. As I see it, Bethesda was just lazy. Too lazy, in fact, even to clean up the many typos in the dialogues and other instances, and too lazy to follow their own lore (the BoS Proctor, I believe, references "transistor radios." Am I the only one who finds that jarring?)

 

Of course, the fact that no one wants to capture and use the Institute's substantial resources is just another headbanger; even the BoS wants to nuke it to oblivion, based on some ridiculous notion of destroying the "eeeee-vuhl" synth tech. Just as easy to destroy that tech, and keep the rest of the place, including that shiny, new reactor.

 

Finally, a couple of reasons I loathe the Institute:

 

The Institute's experiments on kidnapped humans created the local variety of supermutants. Proof exists in Virgil's abandoned lab.

 

The Institute sent a synth assassin to kill all the delegates from Commonwealth settlements to prevent the formation of a coalition government. So much for the "they're doomed" line Father keeps throwing at you. If the Commonwealth is doomed, it's only because the Institute wants it to be.

 

So, yeah. Sloppy work, but still quite an entertaining game. But it could've been SO much better... =-[.]-=

[Rangerwithabigiron]

By and large the Institute scientists don't regard the Synth as equal to humans because they're too obsessed with what they want from their creations to truly appreciate what they've created.

 

Also the BoS in this game was quite the shock, being that in previous games they were the moral high ground and now they only occupy a very small portion of the moral high ground.

I have to wonder if there's been a shift in 10 years, or if they've always been like this but their surroundings have always been so low before now that they were still the good guys.

[Omnimmotus]

By and large the Institute scientists don't regard the Synth as equal to humans because they're too obsessed with what they want from their creations to truly appreciate what they've created.

 

Also the BoS in this game was quite the shock, being that in previous games they were the moral high ground and now they only occupy a very small portion of the moral high ground.

I have to wonder if there's been a shift in 10 years, or if they've always been like this but their surroundings have always been so low before now that they were still the good guys.

Only in Fallout 3 were the Brotherhood the moral high-ground. If you ask to join the Brotherhood in the first Fallout, they send you on a suicide mission. It's only when you come back alive and successful that they, shocked, decide to maybe give you a chance. Though I do feel the FO4 Brotherhood is too willing to destroy technology. I can understand wanting to eliminate the Institute, but why blow it up when there is so much of value there?

 

 

 

10.Vault 111 is full of subjects from before the war, somehow the Institute kills all of them so that the Player can be special.

They didn't, they died because of the malfunction. You woke up because of it and because wanted your baby back.

Actually, you woke up because Father used remote access to trigger the opening of your pod to begin his little "experiment". For everyone else, he shut off the life support. I don't care about the moral implications of that (considering circumstances), but it does seem like a strange waste of resources.