I will not be buying this game until they release the toolset.

[Sunsnub]

No offense to the original game or the original "modders" of the game, but no. One of the best aspects of this franchise is the ability to truly mod it.

 

I was gonna buy one game this december, and I didn't buy FO4 (despite my love for the franchise) for the simple reason that they haven't released the tool set yet. It's apparently an afterthought. Once it becomes a forethought, or at least presentthough, I might actually buy it.

 

Until then.... still rocking Fo3, and even FoNV, or NWN 1 (if I am looking for online)

 

Fo4??? Yeah it looks nice, but don't get it twisted Bethesda, one of the biggest draws to your games are what players can do with it, that you can't . So until you give the power to the players/consumers like previous generations, I will not be buying this game.

 

But I am looking forward to the day when I can buy this game and experience something better than previous fall outs (both from the original developer, and it's community.)

Edited December 5, 2015 by Sunsnub

[minc3meat]

No offense to the original game or the original "modders" of the game, but no. One of the best aspects of this franchise is the ability to truly mod it.

 

I was gonna buy one game this december, and I didn't buy FO4 (despite my love for the franchise) for the simple reason that they haven't released the tool set yet. It's apparently an afterthought. Once it becomes a forethought, or at least presentthough, I might actually buy it.

 

Until then.... still rocking Fo3, and even FoNV, or NWN 1 (if I am looking for online)

 

Fo4??? Yeah it looks nice, but don't get it twisted Bethesda, one of the biggest draws to your games are what players can do with it, that you can't . So until you give the power to the players/consumers like previous generations, I will not be buying this game.

 

But I am looking forward to the day when I can buy this game and experience something better than previous fall outs (both from the original developer, and it's community.)

 

To each their own.

The CK is rumored to be coming out Spring 2016, though... I don't know how you can wait that long haha

[DoctorKaizeld]

they always release the GECK and Creation Kit a couple months after release of their respective games FO and ES respectively.

 

it isnt an after thought they just focus on making the game before working on the public Dev Kit.

[Sunsnub]

I was glad Bethesda took over Fallout. I played it since Fo2. You remember that 2 dimensional s#*!???

 

But I really became interested in it when Fo3 came out. Post apolypitic world, that players can actually modify to be somewhat realistic.

 

And by that I mean can do stuff regulated game developers can't (e.g. wh*%# houses, real drugs, real violence, ect...) What do you think the apocolypse is going to look like? My Fo3 mod is super realistic, and dirty as earth. What do you think an apocoplase is going to look like? And it's only like that due to the toolset that was released, and the creative endevors of Bethesda's consumers.

 

Sky rim is just as popular for the same reason. I just never bought, or played that because this is much more up my alley.

 

Some of the best mods I remember from Fo3 were, the soundtraks, crazy adult posters, strippers and hookers (you think sex won't be an important part of an economy in a post apocoliptic world???), awesome graphics upgrades, realism mods, weather mods, equipment changes, appearance changes, scripts, ect... and I could go on and on.... Moding this game is the best thing about it (other than the ability to share it.)

[TheOriginalEvilD]

Eh. This is the first one of the franchise I have bought on release day, and only because I have so much experience with the two before it that I knew I'd love it. I actually value playing through at least one round without mods, trying to enjoy the vanilla weapons and such. To me it's like buying two games, one vanilla and one that I mod the crap out of. Once I start modding, my interest in vanilla gear is absolutely gone, and I feel like that's a waste. For all the people crying over how horrible this game supposedly is, it really is a great game in vanilla form and it'll only get better with mods.

[Oubliette]

they always release the GECK and Creation Kit a couple months after release of their respective games FO and ES respectively.

 

it isnt an after thought they just focus on making the game before working on the public Dev Kit.

 

No they don't. I believe they actually released a teaser version of the OS for Oblivion before the games release though I was a little late to Morrowind modding my copy of the CS came with my MW disk.

[DoctorKaizeld]

Sorry I was speaking from FONV and forward. I should have been careful with how I wrote that.

[Vagrant0]

 

they always release the GECK and Creation Kit a couple months after release of their respective games FO and ES respectively.

 

it isnt an after thought they just focus on making the game before working on the public Dev Kit.

 

No they don't. I believe they actually released a teaser version of the OS for Oblivion before the games release though I was a little late to Morrowind modding my copy of the CS came with my MW disk.

 

There is admittedly a mentality change from Bethesda in terms of toolkit releases. But we also aren't living in the same environment as things were in those days, the toolkit has changed significantly, and mistakes were made here and there.

 

The original toolkit for Oblivion was buggy and missing many components that had to be forcefully removed because of software licensing issues. The version of the toolkit they released was not the version that the game was made with. These issues became more pronounced with the release of Shivering Isles, where whole features were broken by the new version of the toolkit, which was needed to open the updated game files properly. Much of this was because at the time the engine being used was not owned by Bethesda, so many of the tools they were using were either created solely for in-house work, or were built from various official Gamebryo tools or 3rd party plugins like speedtree. If anything, in those days, the toolkit was more of an afterthought, released just because there was promise from the Morrowind modding scene, and provided with little to no official documentation.

 

The GECK for FO3 was a delayed release because they recognized the problems that occured with the Oblivion CK, and also had to adjust/review documentation. Also, with the QC issues with Oblivion, they probably had more staff assigned to bugfixing than working on a public toolkit since the former was more directly related to sales. FO:NV was essentially just an overhaul mod built with the FO3 GECK, so very few things needed to be updated, but still the NV GECK was postponed for a month or so to get everything squared away.

 

The CK for Skyrim was a similar state, but was pushed back due to both updating it to be right for the new engine, but also to support the Steam Workshop, which wasn't a particularly well defined thing at the time. The numerous bugs that came up with the early versions likely also played a part in delaying the release, along with possible apprehension of early mods creating false bug reports.

 

This time around, they have many of the same issues all around, in addition to wanting to incorporate the new GECK with their own in-house mod service for use on consoles. This is far from being an afterthought at this point since so much is connected with a toolset. They want it to be working, to be feature rich, have documentation, and interface with systems which probably aren't fully setup yet. When they have significant portions of their team still working on bugfixes and optimization for those people who still can't get the game to run, some things take priority over others... They just have to.

 

The whole "mods will fix it" mentality is really the part of all this that is entirely broken here. Yes, mods will eventually be able to do some great things with this game, but that doesn't mean we should ignore the responsibility of the game maker to fix the stuff that is actually broken.

[Warmaker01]

Eh. This is the first one of the franchise I have bought on release day, and only because I have so much experience with the two before it that I knew I'd love it. I actually value playing through at least one round without mods, trying to enjoy the vanilla weapons and such. To me it's like buying two games, one vanilla and one that I mod the crap out of. Once I start modding, my interest in vanilla gear is absolutely gone, and I feel like that's a waste. For all the people crying over how horrible this game supposedly is, it really is a great game in vanilla form and it'll only get better with mods.

Same here. I have to experience the "vanilla" Bethesda game before it gets dolled up by mods. Thankfully FO4 has a lot to it. Some stupid design decisions were made but overall, the package is a great experience. Vanilla FO4 let you do more in the game than some modded up past games.

[Sunsnub]

Still haven't bought this since still no GECK release.

 

Diehard Fallout fan here, played and bought 1, 2, 3, "3.NV", but just waiting for this to come out before I drop my hard earned cash on it. Don't get me wrong the vanilla game is great out of the box (or I expect it to be if it's anything like it's predecessors, although NV was a pretty big let down because it was pretty much a DCL release of FO3 with a bunch of co-opted community mods with cooperate fine tuning, but hey, we don't get paid for modding and most of us don't expect to.

 

We as the consumers of the product (including modders) just like having the capability [it's one of the things that separates Bethesda games from the bulls***], and I am speaking both as a player, and a developer (on other platforms.)

 

Still waiting... Hey I guess the benefit is, if/when they finally get around to releasing this, and I subsequently do finally buy it, the price may have come down?

Edited February 3, 2016 by Sunsnub