anbeegod Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 Moral dilemma/grey areas enrich a story's depth, especially in games like the series Fallout. You said this and didn't notice FO4 is more grey than fallout 3? Even more than FNV main quest factions that were black and white? The Carbot House quest doesn't really have moral issue involved, because you're required to choose between a psycho old guy and his family which want to make use of him.To you. Moral dilemma is up to the RP and the players themselves. Let say morally I think the RR are just stealing robots and killed some of the INTS for no reasons that makes sense, so I have no problem killing them off.Who says that old man is even crazy? That his son just wants to make use of him? Maybe the don't think that helm even works and jack is the crazy one for tapping his dad? Name 2 F3 quests that makes people think? Tenpenny Tower and Arefu.Hardly, the very clear answer to blood ties is to make the dudes defend Arefu expect if you were playing a bad guy or a law loving dude. Same goes for tenpenny, they always this clear answer, the only factor is to pick is based on your wanted RP. FNV factions except Retard's Legion aren't even black and white to begin with. The factions have their pros and cons, including Yes-Man. Moral dilemma is for the players themselves, and roleplaying style is for the player characters. They are fundamentally different, because players are not their characters. I can roleplay as a guy who kills a controversial man for nothing more than fun, but in reality, if I were truly in my character's place, I would give this serious thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boombro Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) FNV factions except Retard's Legion aren't even black and white to begin with. The factions have their pros and cons, including Yes-Man.No. They hardly have any greyness. They do have pros and cons, but not greyness. It clear the CL are just bad people, that NCR are lawful good etc. Moral dilemma is for the players themselves, and roleplaying style is for the player characters.But you said those two quests make the player think and that so untrue. Edited March 30, 2016 by Boombro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anbeegod Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 Not everything can be told by actions, but yes, everything can be told by a combination of actions and 3 dialogue options. The 4th isn't even needed. I have worked in enough videogame engines on enough different projects to know that we are never going to be truly free... That is just some grade school dream, like thinking you can grow up and be a famous actor. In fact, I'm working on a mod that gives the players lots of choices. Part of the reason is that I lack the ability to code/script for more complicated events, part of which is the necessity. Usually, you express opinions towards a certain subject by words. Yes, you can express your opinion to a person by planning a series of hideous accidents for him, or secretly put a thousand dollars in his pocket just to thank him; but before that, shouldn't you be able to express you anger/gratitude/agreement/disagreement/sorrow towards a particular thing that he has done? Aside from these debatable matter, sometimes, you simply need to have more slots to proceed things. NPC: Which province do you like the most? Player:1. Skyrim2. Morrowind3. Cyrodiil4. High Rock5. Hammerfell6. Summerset Isle7. Valenwood8. Elsweyr9. Black Marsh10. Nah, I'd rather destroy them all.11. Why not all? No way limited slots can support conversations like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boombro Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) Aside from these debatable matter, sometimes, you simply need to have more slots to proceed things. NPC: Which province do you like the most? Player:1. Skyrim2. Morrowind3. Cyrodiil4. High Rock5. Hammerfell6. Summerset Isle7. Valenwood8. Elsweyr9. Black Marsh10. Nah, I'd rather destroy them all.11. Why not all? No way limited slots can support conversations like that. True. Why not try branching? i'm sure that giving the npcs a voiceless sound file and make it seem natural? Like:Mer:human:Beast: Having a lot of options is nice, but one should make them tidy. It gets tiring. Edited March 30, 2016 by Boombro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anbeegod Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) No. They hardly have any greyness. They do have pros and cons, but not greyness. It clear the CL are just bad people, that NCR are lawful good etc. Categorizing factions and characters isn't the best way to discuss about moral greyness. NCR: corruption, weakness, "modernized", brings order, helps people etcHouse: dictator, brings order, brings wealth, extreme capitalistYes-Man: continuous chaos in Mojave, free from NCR and Retard's Legion's grip Morality is about ideology. If you have different ideology with someone else, then your moral standards are different - and that's part of my ideology. Edited March 30, 2016 by anbeegod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anbeegod Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 True. Why not try branching? i'm sure that giving the npcs a voiceless sound file and make it seem natural? Like:Mer:human:Beast: Having a lot of options is nice, but one should make them tidy. It gets tiring. Ultimately, it means more dialogue options still. Besides, what if I adore a province not for its races, but for its magnificent scenery and hidden secrets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeamBacon Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 In fact, I'm working on a mod that gives the players lots of choices. Part of the reason is that I lack the ability to code/script for more complicated events, part of which is the necessity. Usually, you express opinions towards a certain subject by words. Yes, you can express your opinion to a person by planning a series of hideous accidents for him, or secretly put a thousand dollars in his pocket just to thank him; but before that, shouldn't you be able to express you anger/gratitude/agreement/disagreement/sorrow towards a particular thing that he has done? Aside from these debatable matter, sometimes, you simply need to have more slots to proceed things. NPC: Which province do you like the most? Player:1. Skyrim2. Morrowind3. Cyrodiil4. High Rock5. Hammerfell6. Summerset Isle7. Valenwood8. Elsweyr9. Black Marsh10. Nah, I'd rather destroy them all.11. Why not all? No way limited slots can support conversations like that. But that is a poorly written conversation that is... a) Inefficient for writing and voice acting, because you have to do 11 lines of dialogue and the player only hears 1. That is 10 wasted lines of dialogue. b) Just plane boring and doesn't add anything to the roleplaying of the character. c) Cumbersome. If you want to express your opinion in words, you have a whole THREE dialogue options to do that. That is more than enough to actually craft a conversation that is immersive and flows like a real world conversation. You can branch things, build tension, create a narrative, and leave the player feeling like they ACTUALLY expressed themselves. As opposed to just giving them a big long list of half baked options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IglooGreenHouse Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Wow, this seems like a really contentious issue.Does anyone know if there's any plans to make a dialogue system like Skyrim? I thought it was best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boombro Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 NCR: corruption, weakness, "modernized", brings order, helps people etcHouse: dictator, brings order, brings wealth, extreme capitalistYes-Man: continuous chaos in Mojave, free from NCR and Retard's Legion's gripAgain, hardly grey. Ultimately, it means more dialogue options still. Besides, what if I adore a province not for its races, but for its magnificent scenery and hidden secrets?Branch it with why? But that is a poorly written conversation that is...TB, I'm sure that is an example. Wow, this seems like a really contentious issue.Does anyone know if there's any plans to make a dialogue system like Skyrim? I thought it was best. Who knows, maybe FO4 can hold more than four. But maybe the leads said just four for one reason or another. We really can't do much with CK to dig into stuff well and proper, or the entrance of smarty pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTL2 Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 The fail safe should be Kent Connoly giving you a way into the Institute and taking it down as the Silver Shroud by yourself. Hahaa!! Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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