On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[JimboUK]

In response to post #39468355. #39468585, #39469950 are all replies on the same post.

Izaki131 wrote: The author could've done without the long SJW-esque rant. Maybe you should give modding ON a console a try if you like them so much.

balwick wrote: You silly tart, you're exactly the type of person he tells to sod off in the post.

HadToRegister wrote:

Izaki131 0 kudos 1 posts
The author could've done without the long SJW-esque rant. Maybe you should give modding ON a console a try if you like them so much.

1 whole post.
Did you make an account JUST to post that dribble?

Did you understand any of what was written?

[Joeishellacool]

<3

[Dahveed]

Thanks for that article... I don't even have Fallout 4 (or even a console), but I was curious about how Skyrim console modding would work.

 

I had no idea that the official Bethesda mod site had such problems, and it's an eye-opener for sure. This information will be useful for when the new Skyrim version comes out... I'll be ready I guess!

 

Bethesda could indeed learn a lot from you, and it's a shame that they're just kind of pretending that we all don't even exist over here on the Nexus.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

[Dahveed]

In response to post #39468355. #39468585, #39469950, #39474765 are all replies on the same post.

Izaki131 wrote: The author could've done without the long SJW-esque rant. Maybe you should give modding ON a console a try if you like them so much.

balwick wrote: You silly tart, you're exactly the type of person he tells to sod off in the post.

HadToRegister wrote:

Izaki131 0 kudos 1 posts
The author could've done without the long SJW-esque rant. Maybe you should give modding ON a console a try if you like them so much.

1 whole post.
Did you make an account JUST to post that dribble?

jim_uk wrote: Did you understand any of what was written?

Terrible.

You are EXACTLY the sort of person who contributes to all these problems in the first place.

[icecreamassassin]

In response to post #39468315. #39468760, #39469375, #39469590, #39473275 are all replies on the same post.

R0NlN wrote: I hesitate to post this (since most people aren't very open to criticism, no matter how constructive-- that's just human nature), but in the end I feel compelled to do so. That was a painful read, which means it probably didn't accomplish what you wanted it to.

I know you have some important points to make, but there's a lot of brush to clear to find them. Please, in the future, edit before you publish. Provide an introduction that previews your main points, develop those points in the body, and finish with a summary. Go through each line (or at least each paragraph) and ask yourself, "Does this need to be here? Can it be shortened or reworded, to make the point more concisely?"

Try saying in a few words what you've said here in 5,127. You have to grab your readers' attention, get your message across, and wrap it up as quickly as the subject allows.

Sorry for the unsolicited advice. I only want to help you write articles that will impact your audience.

Dark0ne wrote: I hated English Lit class for this very reason.

These posts have always been a practical opinion-dump on my part. Almost as though you're reading what I would have said out loud, unedited and uncut. My honest opinion.

Believe it or not these articles do go through extensive editing, reworking of paragraphs, the removal of others and reorganising the structure, so the end result is exactly how I wanted the article to read.

All in all, it took about 6 hours to write and edit this particular article.

jackty89 wrote: I tough it was a good article it's written in the style "I'm in front of you talking". I really think it's a good read, a bit long but for a subject like this I'm rather certain that being short would leave to much for interpretation and that is something you want to avoid. I do think he should have added a TLDR; at the end as a lot of people... dislike reading unlike me :p

Thallassa wrote:

In response to post #39468315. #39468760, #39469375 are all replies on the same post.

Perhaps you shouldn't hate on legalese so much though...

Edit: What I mean is, legalese is a writing style that serves a particular purposes and does it very well. You also defend your writing style as suitable for your purpose, even if others find it a bit dense. So why complain about other people's language? :tongue:

Edit 2: Do all the swear words in your post mean swearing is ok on nexus now? Damn! :D

R0NlN wrote: This is a reply to Dark0ne, in response to _his_ reply to me:

That's fine, it's your choice. Just as long as you realize that a not-insubstantial number of people will give up on the "stream of consciousness" type of writing, never having learned what it was that you wanted them to take away from it.

Thanks much for taking my post in the spirit in which it was intended!

While feedback and subjective opinion about this article may be valid, is this really the place for this? Is it really more important to be dissecting Robbin's writing style than to focus on the purpose of the content?

[ratrace]

My guess on why Bethesda, the father who left us us at birth with the tools to survive (to quote your metaphor, Dark0ne), is suddenly back now is the following:

They are preparing another paid mods debacle. Simple as that. And they want to cash grab with minimal effort in the same way that they release their games. Once again they've shown their indifference towards the modding community. They could have known better from the Valve / Steam workshop crap. But they chose to ignore that. They chose. I can't stress that enough.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I must be clear: There's only ONE reason for me to play a Bethesda game at all: the mods. Their vanilla stuff is mediocre at best. So the dumbest thing Bethesda could do is upset the modders.

[skinnytecboy]

In response to post #39471285. #39471885, #39472400, #39472495, #39474690 are all replies on the same post.

Rooker75 wrote: Honestly, I thought the FO4 GECK was delayed because someone there got the boneheaded idea they could make more money by withholding it until after they released DLC. The timing of its release makes me think I was right. It certainly taught me never to buy one of their new games until after they release its SDK. I play their games mainly for the modding, not for the game itself.

As I said when one of their early FO4 patches disabled mods and appeared to be deliberately tampering with config files to prevent mods from running, Bethesda appears to be attempting to assert an authority over modding they don't have and they need to back off. I lost interest, so I don't know if the true reason for that behavior was ever revealed.

I worry they'll look at the reaction to paid modding last year and the reaction to this now and decide supporting mods is more trouble than it's worth for them. While I'd love it if they backed away from trying to control modding, it would be a disaster for them and us (probably more for them than for us) if they decided to stop releasing SDKs for their games. If we could go back to the way things were at the beginning of last year, that would be great.

Anyway, just want to note one thing: If you file a DMCA complaint about a mod (or any other reason), the target of the complaint receives your name, address, email address and various other personal information. It could lead to doxxing, swatting and who knows what else.

I think using DMCA as a go to was a dumb way for them to handle this.

/edit: Forgot to mention, thanks for the new permission settings. I don't like the rights Beth/Zenimax grant themselves, so I'd already decided I want none of my mods on their site.

Jusey1 wrote: If you play ANY game just for the modding (unless that is the game's purpose) then don't buy their games at all. The games obviously aren't meant for you.

Rooker75 wrote: Did you get lost? I'm not sure you're in the right place. Do you need assistance?

Jusey1 wrote: Nope. I am not lost.

Ethreon wrote: You're lost.

For the record, you're not the only one who thought that they held back ck until the release of a couple of dlc. However, Dark0nsie makes a more plausible take on the situation.

[Kukassin]

In response to post #39468355. #39468585, #39469950, #39474765, #39474955 are all replies on the same post.

Izaki131 wrote: The author could've done without the long SJW-esque rant. Maybe you should give modding ON a console a try if you like them so much.

balwick wrote: You silly tart, you're exactly the type of person he tells to sod off in the post.

HadToRegister wrote:

Izaki131 0 kudos 1 posts
The author could've done without the long SJW-esque rant. Maybe you should give modding ON a console a try if you like them so much.

1 whole post.
Did you make an account JUST to post that dribble?

jim_uk wrote: Did you understand any of what was written?

Dahveed wrote: Terrible.

You are EXACTLY the sort of person who contributes to all these problems in the first place.

I despise SJWs, but Robin sure isn't one and he's right about what he said.

[MurdermiesteR]

In response to post #39471205. #39473665, #39474105, #39474445 are all replies on the same post.

Jusey1 wrote: I didn't fully read this, just skimmed through it. BUT that is because I already know everything that's going on, so I generally agree with what you're saying or at least what you are getting at.

However, from what I've read. You miss a few things, and there is some stupidity in there that you shouldn't have said at all.

Firstly, this modding business is a problem because of everybody involved. What I am saying is that there are more people making this a mess, than just the thefts themselves...

1. The thieves themselves for starting this ordeal... HOWEVER, there is probably two types of thieves going on. Console people who just wants to play the mod but has no idea why they shouldn't... And PC people who wants to cause trouble in the first place, or are PC elitists and wants to crash console users in general, giving no f*#@s about the modders themselves...

2. The console users who knowingly supports the thefts. Now, these people are pretty rare but they do exists and just having a few will cause any modder to be upset and highly judgemental.

3. The modders themselves being stupid over this crap. Yes, people stole ye' s#*&#33; and etc. Don't rant about it, don't go private, don't be stupid... Mods are your work and you should continue releasing your work, to as many people as possible. If someone stole a mod of yours, do what you need to do to fix it and let Bethesda know that they need to make a better system on Bethesda.net, but don't stop modding and don't make your mods go private. If possible, release those mods for console users yourself. That would greatly lower the chances of them stealing your mods.

Secondly, yes. Bethesda needs to do something to Bethesda.net and they are planning to do something at least. But we don't know how successful it will be until they do it. People also shouldn't complain about how long it takes for them to do it. Yes, they need to take action ASAP but they're are planning to put in a new system to help the modders and console users. They need to do it right, which can and will take some time to do it right. The longer they suggested means that they are really paying attention to this system and really want to put out something that works.

Lastly, paid mods are NOT gonna happen again. Don't be a doomsayer with that stupid stuff.

Kukassin wrote: Agreed, although they have every right to go private and I don't think any of the 2 options are better.

What I do think is better is adding a DRM system which would inform the user (if on console) to delete the mod and report it and if not, it will damage their game.

About your second point, there are actually quite many that support it, not rare whatsoever. Pretty much every comment on the stolen pages is from them and there are TONS of them on YouTube videos, everywhere really. Again, not a rarity whatsoever.

turoktony wrote: Regarding number 3, Dark0ne already adressed your comment. A mod author should not continue releasing their work if they do not want to. At the end of the day, it is THEIR work. No one has the right to tell them what to do with it or pressure them in any way to port the mod to consoles.

You should complain about how long Bethesda takes to put a system to prevent this stuff in place. At the time of writing this comment, people are still stealing mods. It should be Bethesda's top priority to keep their community satisfied, but frankly they don't really seem to be giving a s#*&#33; at this point. If they never will give a s#*&#33;, then at least they could be kind enough to let us know so we can just abandon Fallout 4 and all their future RPGs.

Lastly, paid mods are DEFINITELY going to happen again. Come on, man. Why do you think this entire console modding thing was created anyway? So that Bethesda will be able to milk the modding community in the future! The situation with Skyrim was just a test. Now a system has been put in place to allow them to start selling you mods pretty early in the game's life, in an attempt to milk everyone as much as possible. Sadly this is what corporations have devolved into. Nobody gives a s#*&#33; about us anymore. All we really, truly are to Bethesda (or rather ZeniMax) is sentient wallets, waiting to be exploited so they can earn yet more money. Gotta love capitalism, am I right? Paid mods will definitely not kill the modding community, though. There will always be mod authors that will offer their mods for free, and those certainly deserve donations for the effort they have put in their mods.

Jusey1 wrote: Huh. I rarely see people supporting the actual thefts myself.

Check Bethesda.net for theft supporters. They host threads and can be found all over "test" files.

As an author myself, I find Beth.net toxic and have moved to modding Witcher 3 until the site begins supporting the authors. Our content is ours to do with as we will. Until that is recognized only my good friends will have access to my work.

[icecreamassassin]

When I heard about all of Bethesda's forward movement into mod management with their hosting framework I immediately became a bit paranoid about what degree of control they were going to want on content and where it is posted.

 

This article is good because it does point out a very large ineptitude on Bethesda's part, one which was clearly illustrated in the paid modding fiasco; they have a bad case of the rose colored glasses. Meaning that everything they see is rosy and perfect. They do not plan their actions based on the lowest common denominator. As a pen and paper RPG designer myself, the one key thing of design that I always have to look at is, "How will people try and break and exploit the system within the confines of the rules". Bethesda clearly does not consider the fact that a large percentage of users are opportunistic little pricks. They need to plan for those people first and foremost and try and build towards their vision while dealing with the eventuality of people exploiting the system.

 

One key thing to keep in mind is that any mod which uses SKSE (and most large mods do) will probably never work on console, so implementing some SKSE can easily prevent a mod from being used on console. That said I have no problems per say with consoles getting mods; I think it's cool, but the cruz of the problem here is that Bethesda is stepping in and trying to push things that way while not doing anything to ensure it goers smoothly and that people are secure and property is represented fairly.

 

Bottom line, Bethesda has NEVER understood the modding community and frankly I don't think even respects it, their actions sure don't show it. It's because of the modding community that Skyrim is even still relevant. Robbin said it in his article; FO4's interest started to wane and so they rushed the CK to the rescue. They have always had a bad history of "release now fix later" mentality and frankly I think leave it to us to largely fix ourselves. It's just a bummer deal