On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[Dark0ne]

In response to post #39465240.

SydneyB wrote: Thanks for all your support during all these years (and I hope also in the future), Dark One and all the Nexus team.

I see that Bethesda has just released a new version of the CK that requires synchronisation with your Steam account, and I think that is a move to stop the mods theft. And the thread you began on Bethesda.net is continuing in another thread with restricted access, so I hope they are sharing views with you in private about this issue.

Thank you very much, again :)

Thanks Sydney.

And the thread you began on Bethesda.net is continuing in another thread with restricted access, so I hope they are sharing views with you in private about this issue.

Where is this taking place?

[SydneyB]

In response to post #39465240. #39465310 is also a reply to the same post.

SydneyB wrote: Thanks for all your support during all these years (and I hope also in the future), Dark One and all the Nexus team.

I see that Bethesda has just released a new version of the CK that requires synchronisation with your Steam account, and I think that is a move to stop the mods theft. And the thread you began on Bethesda.net is continuing in another thread with restricted access, so I hope they are sharing views with you in private about this issue.

Thank you very much, again :)

Dark0ne wrote: Thanks Sydney.

And the thread you began on Bethesda.net is continuing in another thread with restricted access, so I hope they are sharing views with you in private about this issue.

Where is this taking place?

I see a note at the top that says that the thread has been divided into another thread. The link of the new thread is this one: https://community.bethesda.net/thread/23068

I thought that was a private thread they had opened with you as I for me it says I am not authorised to read it ...

[AgentTheory]

Love the nexus site. I haven't contributed any mods myself, but I have certainly downloaded a lot. As a book author and professor, I share parts of my texts (with the publisher's permission) and my powerpoints with students. I don't mind that they use pieces of them for whatever purposes. I do mind that my powerpoints appear on the internet with someone else claiming to be the author. In short, it has been impossible to get websites to remove my content. I could file a lawsuit, but that would be expensive and I would most likely need to travel to wherever the website's owner lives and file in court there.

 

I think you are correct that Bethesda is internally dysfunctional, and they have so far relied on lawyers who can only approach it from a technical legal standpoint, which they know is cumbersome in the case of the internet. Other than the legal approach, they probably don't know and don't care what else to do because they are a for-profit business, not a social website like Nexus that brings people together to share mod files, not make profit.

 

So there's the problem. Two sites that exist for very different reasons. Nexus is a community for public use and Bethesda.net is a business built to generate private profit. Bethesda will respond with greater alacrity if something threatens their profit. Notice how they responded when Far Harbor appeared for free download.

[MadMAX713]

man i really like bethesda. seeing their response to modders frustrations it is very disheartening. the whole reason i started modding was because i was such a big fan of bethesdas games. and it seems like they have turned a blind eye to some of their most devoted fans.

 

 

[Natterforme]

I have a perfect plan. Play Overwatch until Skyrim SE comes out. Install Skyrim SE. Get lost. >.>

 

In anycase, I am disappointed with this whole situation. This is why I didnt upload my mods to steam either. Mod curation by Bethesda is poor to be very generous. Making mods is hard enough without having to deal with an incompetent mod support system. When you throw on having to optimize to a lower standard on hardware on a console I dont own (PS4 or XBox 1) there is literally no benefit to me for doing so and a whole lot of headache.

 

On a different topic Robin, as Skyrim SE gets closer to release, and we come to understand more about it, I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on the matter. It is my opinion that, everything holding true, that Skyrim SE will be what Skyrim probably should have been from the start 5 years ago. I am very interested in seeing what the community creates with a more stable platform of the update/modified Fallout 4 version of the Creation Engine.

 

Cheers and you get shiny gold stars on your term paper Dark0ne.^^

 

-Natterforme

[Deleted3624098User]

Nice conclusion and very informative. I like your angry attitude as well (very non-political).

I am happy to be here.

Thanks again, Dark0ne - and the entire team, moderators included.

Edited June 17, 2016 by fredlaus

[TaraAncunin]

5,100 words I agree with. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this massive issue Dark0ne.

[setiweb]

Hmmm... perhaps that's why I get requests for updates from new accounts with only 1 post (and sometimes even no download history.)

[Sithspecter]

In response to post #39464605. #39464780, #39464890, #39464925, #39465125, #39465265 are all replies on the same post.

Sithspecter wrote: I can feel the hypocrisy flowing through you.

How can you say;

"That list is by no means exhaustive, and there’s lots of other justifiable reasons for not wanting to share their mods on other sites. At the end of the day, we, the mod users, have absolutely no rights whatsoever in demanding mod authors do or do not do something with their mods. Nor do we have any right to take a mod and upload it somewhere else, just because other people want it."

After you have just uploaded tens of thousands of mods from Gamefront without a lick of consent from even ACTIVE USERS such as myself??

KryliaViru wrote: That's because that site was shutting down, though, and there were a lot of old mods on there often exclusive to it.

EDIT; However, I am not the official voice of Nexus, so I don't represent their views... I am just stating what I assume to be the reason.

Brigand231 wrote: If you read the article posted about that transfer, Nexus staff worked with Gamefront to make it happen. Did you bother to ask if, perhaps just maybe, there was a transfer of lease or permissions or rights during the process?

Jokerine wrote: I assume you already reported it and asked it to be taken down then?

Sithspecter wrote: I have, and no transfer or lease or permissions was given. I had over a dozen mods stolen from me from Nexus despite being an active member here and uploading mods that were more current to Nexus.

I've read every article on this subject, I've interfaced with Nexus staff on this and I've attempted to start cleaning up the Knights of the Old Republic section by reporting duplicate, bugged, or older versions of mods. There used to be only a hundred or so Knights of the Old Republic mods on Nexus, all of decent quality. Now there are over nine hundred, often bugged or incompatible mods that have flooded the section.

Nexus still has no leg to stand on when saying "Nor do we have any right to take a mod and upload it somewhere else, just because other people want it."

Nexus is right that other sites shouldn't steal mods, but the hypocrisy is overwhelming.

Dark0ne wrote: Ultimately there's an extremely different argument between "77,000 mods are about to be completely lost, tens of thousands of which aren't available anywhere else, for games long since their prime, and won't ever be available again" and what's discussed in this article.

You can try to draw parallels all you like, but I fundamentally disagree with you, despite understanding where you're coming from.

I believe you're already discussing this actively with SirSalami via email and helping where you can, so I think we'll leave it to that.

I'm not saying it was bad to save them, but saving them doesn't require an immediate release. Previously I was extremely impressed with Nexus interface, easy upload system, and professional appearance. This is what I expected:

1. Download and archive the files, screenshots, and descriptions.
2. Sort through the files, noting any duplicates, files with multiple version updates, or files that were bugged.
3. Attempt to contact authors. Obviously you won't reach every one, but at least try it. I am an active member at Nexus, and I contribute content here. It wouldn't be hard to find me.
4. Attempt to interface with the modding communities.
5. After a month or so with no contact from mod authors, then upload the mods with the caveat that if they modder returns, they can claim their file.

Instead, you just did the easy steps. I'm not saying it shouldn't have been done, I'm saying it should have been handled better.

I realize there are 77,000 files, and that's a huge amount of people to try to contact, but that's what you signed up for by deciding to archive those files.

[VaryelStudios]

In response to post #39464010. #39464265 is also a reply to the same post.

MokChaoticran wrote: Thanks for this, Dark0ne, Robin, whichever you'd prefer. Watching people argue, the countless rant videos, the nonstop flood of e-mails in my inbox for reporting and calling out stolen content on Bethesda.net, watching big time mod authors lock their doors and pull their work out of the public market - It's been a painful couple of weeks and I really appreciate some kind of official word on this, and as far as the modding community goes, you're as official as it gets.

I overall agree with your stance, and it is the most educated, realistic and moral of the ones I've seen put forward. If you read this, I'd like to ask, what is your opinion on the prospect of "Mod-DRM" and the likes, as it has been discussed among mod authors lately?

Dark0ne wrote: I honestly see no problem with inserting hidden scripts in to mods, that only trigger if the mod is used on a console, that informs users that the mod has been stolen and uploaded to Bethesda.net without permission (and to perhaps please report the mod).

I'm obviously not in favour of any form of DRM that would ultimately damage a console player, his console or his save game.

That would be amazing thing, especially informing console users that the stolen mod can damage their console, saves, and everything they have on there, since it wasn't tested with consoles at all.

I'd love to see someone from nexus releasing such script so we could add it to our mods, since for many of us something like this is way too complex to create.

Hopefully this idea will stay in minds of modders here, as it's really good way of fixing things.