On console mods, theft and Bethesda.net

[blattgeist]

First off: I did not follow any forum conversations during these last weeks, so this comment is only about the news here.

 

This essay was a little more than what I expected. You made it sound like the community is working together towards are shared goal but in fact it is not. Everyone has their own things that drive them forward. So telling people to "piss off" or leave the community just because they have a different opinion on things does not sound right to me and it actually surprises me to see such words here on the news section...

 

And no, I don't particularly care about whether mods belong to consoles or not.. or the whole PC vs console war. I just think that it is not OK to tell people to go away just because they have an opinion.

 

I agree about the rest of the essay, mod theft is NOT OK and Bethesda should really do something about it.. and better sooner than later. There are enough douchebags and trolls out there who don't care about morals and rights of other people who worked their asses off to create something that the community enjoys.

Edited June 19, 2016 by blattgeist

[CliveBarker]

 

In response to post #39505740. #39506695, #39506970, #39507980, #39508195, #39508525, #39508680, #39508790, #39509285, #39509720, #39510275, #39511760, #39511995, #39512010, #39512485, #39512650, #39512810, #39514085, #39514395, #39514900, #39515165, #39515295, #39515610, #39516210, #39516250, #39516375, #39518215, #39518480, #39520555, #39521910, #39522230, #39522760, #39524160 are all replies on the same post.

 

 

 

boomerizer wrote: OK, so, I read most of this. I know, TL;DR, I'm usually not one to skip, but most of this doesn't really apply to me. The thing with moderating etc, et al.

 

SO, I understand the whole stolen mods thing is bad. But, only "in a way."

 

Controversial, I know.

 

Here's why:

1) I've been using nexus probably on and off for the better part of 3 years-- though I don't really remember when I actually created my account to first mod Fallout: New Vegas-- I'm sure nobody cares anyway, so its not relevant. So I'll simply say: I don't know many modders by name.

 

Why is this relevant? Well, see, with 'stolen mods' on Xbox One (which I use, because I have a 2 Xbox Ones, and Xbox 360, a PS4, a /decent/ desktop computer, and 2 sub-par macbook pro laptops-- why duplicates? Well, I am married, and sometimes my wife and I like to play some games together.-- that last tidbit is irrelevant, but what /IS/ relevant is that I play many games, across many platforms. For example? I have Skyrim on Steam, I have Skyrim on the 360 (honestly, the only reason I still have the old thing). I play battlefield and the fallout games on both available platforms. Up until mods for console-- the only reason I played games on the PC was for that reason (if the game itself wasn't a PC exclusive.) Why? Console games are just far more easily accessible. I prefer to play them there, rather than worry about "will my computer run this?"

 

OK, so back on topic: I don't know mod authors by name. I mean, I do recognize some, like, say, Azar with hair mods. But that is pretty much, about it.

 

Why is this relevant? Because I just download them, and use them. I click like/favorite/endorse, whatever when I really like a mod, but other than that, I'm just a user. I appreciate all the mods created, sure, but I don't really look at the authors' names.

 

Here's the killer-- the part that will likely piss every mod author off.(but I mean well.)

 

I don't care if a mod has been stolen to be put up on the Xbox One site-- because to me, it is merely somebody throwing up a good mod onto a site when the author of the original PC mod hasn't taken the time of day to do it themselves. *gasp* I'm an douche for saying that, I know.

 

The biggest example I can say, of a mod I'd really like made (re)available is the NCR Veteran Ranger armor. I mean, it's the only mod I use on the PC that ISN'T readily available on Xbox. (I mean, I also have the Patriot Shield on PC and it isn't on xbox yet, but thats a story for another day.) Though, for a brief time,it had been, and the worst part is that it's not like the person who threw it on the console mod site claimed it was theirs. It was a mod that added several things-- and dudes, seriously, the description word limit doesn't really afford the uploaded to go into great detail.

 

 

Sure, the people that steal the mod and put it up on the console site could--SHOULD give credit where credit is due. But with that word limit, it really shouldn't be a priority. A description of what the mod is, and what it does, and how to use it should come first. THEN, if it can be done, sure, give credit where credit is due.

 

But mods are a free service, distributed free to a populace that I don't think really cares who makes the mods, just as long as they are made. I'd be more with you guys if the mods being stolen were being charged for. I know there is one dirtbag that was trying to encourage donations for stolen mods-- and yeah, OK, that is pathetic, and that guy (forgot the username) can rack off. But the way I see it, if its a mod that is on PC and isn't uploaded by the mod author due either to time, or they are a PC-Master-Race-r that doesn't think mods should be available to Console Peasants? Yeah, I don't care about how they feel-- its just someone making a good mod available to Xbox One.

 

Now, about this user unfriendliness on the bethesda.net/in-game mod browser?

 

Uh....what? I can use it just fine. Y for search. Use words to search for keywords. If mod is available. Click Download. How can it POSSIBLY be any easier to use?

 

In fact, I find it far easier to use than Nexus page or Nexus Mod Manager. Especially since with Skyrim mods, I ALSO need like 3 other programs to get certain mods to work-- LOOT, FNIS, SKSE. It's a nightmare most of the time, especially ENB's.

 

So, I guess what I mean to say is, if you care that much about stolen mods on Xbox One, be the first to make YOUR mods available on Xbox One before crying about your mod being stolen. Considering how easy that sounds...?

 

Makes me think most PC mod authors just don't give a flying stegosauras about the console community. When, y'know, at least in my case, I am both PC and Xbox. (I have a PS4 but, I really don't have anything worth repeated play.) I just want the mod available. I don't care who makes it available. Just that it is. And if it isn't available, or if a modder stops making it available for whatever reason, then, why even bother caring? If you care; make the effort to make it available. If you don't care to make it available for console, then don't cry out when someone else DOES make the effort to make it available. If the 'thief' is asking/demanding for payment/donations of some kind---or straight up saying "I made this! look at me! praise my awesome modding skillz!", yeah, OK, cry out all you want. But if its just a simple copy/paste upload with paraphrased description of the mod, why does it matter?

 

I don't know man, its all undue drama from both sides.

 

((Sorry I am all over the place. Rushed through, and without any real structure. Brain vomit.))

 

TLDR version:

Stop bitchin' if you don't make the effort to make it available. If you care enough to *censored*, but not enough to provide; why do it in the first place?

durge13 wrote: You don't seem to understand the stress put on modders when someone else starts distributing their mods. If that other person falls behind even a single version, it could mean the original author getting bug reports for things that have already been fixed, possibly leading to hours looking for the source of a bug that doesn't exist anymore. It has f*** all to do with availability to the masses (as you'd know if you read the whole post), modders can do what they want with their mods (within legal reason) and as always they have no reason to explain it to you why they do it that way. They could make it only available to people with the letter A at the start of their surname, and there is nothing you could say that would invalidate their choice to do so.

 

The fact is, stolen mods remove control from the original author, they may be changed slightly, they may be corrupted, out of date, and if an author has literally hundreds of thousands of people using their mod (like many on the Nexus do) then that can lead to unmanageable numbers of people asking about bugs that don't exist or features requests that have already been added.

 

It's not as simple a problem as you make it out to be and I haven't covered even half the problems that can arise from people making their own stolen distributions of a mod.

 

Obviously this doesn't happen with every mod that is stolen but it happens enough that a blanket policy of banning those who distribute stolen mods (regardless of if they 'give credit' as it's really not about credit for most).

boomerizer wrote: Ok, well while I can understand that-- I don't like to download complex mods that require constant updates. Usually, just armor/clothing and weapons. I mean, how many times do you really need to update a helmet?

 

That said, you merely validated my own argument on author names. How does the original mod author get the number of people asking about bugs and s***? If ModAuthorA makes the mod, and ModTheifB steals the mod, and updates the mod then how do the people end up at ModAuthorA for support?

 

I mean, sounds to me, credit is very unnecessary if the users know where to go.

Ethreon wrote: What you boil down to - I don't give a damn what happens as long as I GET WHAT I WANT.

 

.. this is why aliens avoid us.

boomerizer wrote: Incorrect. Best analogy that I can come up with:

 

I buy a burger. I don't know the cooks name.

But I know the waiter or waitress.

I thank the waitress.

If she's nice, I tip the waitress.

 

The cook goes thankless.

 

Doesn't mean I don't appreciate the cook for providing me with a well seasoned and prepared meal. But in the end, all that matters is that it was provided. And the cook can live with that because he knows. He doesn't need the credit.

wsxcgy wrote: @bommerizer

 

but waitresses don't steal the burgers from the cook once they have made it. the cook gives the burger to the waitress so the consumer may enjoy it.

CaladanAnduril wrote: Even better boomer...

 

At your work place you finish a great job and take a break for a coffee and a snack.

Mean time a another person take your hard work and rush to the boss, bragging about his success!

He will be appreciated by a lot of people, maybe promoted, maybe the boss will give him a new office.

 

When you will return from your break, you will also have a reward, a new office... next to the toilet, because you have not done well your work and you will have to do all the dirty work from now on.

 

How you will feel it now ?!

boomerizer wrote: No, the cook leaves it on the counter/hotplate-- the cook doesn't care who ordered the burger, or even who gets the burger. He doesn't know where its going.

 

Then, the waitress delivers it to the table. But maybe, I ordered it, but then slid the plate to my wife or daughter, or a homeless person I invited to my table because it is payday and I felt generous.

 

 

In this case, the mod author uploads the mod to the internet, for everyone to download.

 

Now, I can download it from the original site, or I can download it from a ("stolen") redistribution-- it makes little difference to me. Because I don't look at author names. I merely check to make sure the download isn't dirty.

boomerizer wrote: Look, I'm not saying credit shouldn't be given where credit is due, in redistributed mods.

 

What I am mostly trying to convey is that unless the stolen mod is nefarious in nature, and the person is going out of their way to claim is as their own, it shouldn't be a problem. It sounds to me like mod authors are taking their works farrrrrrr toooooo seriously. And if thats how they feel, then perhaps they should make the effort to write their name in the mod-- there are plenty of mods that bring up pop up windows in the game "Welcome to FOCOM" for example. Can just say "This mod made by <> and distributed by <>".

 

I wouldn't leave my work unlabelled.

 

Oh, and a thought I just had:

At a job, I'd be getting paid. Money.

 

Here, its volunteer work. Nobody is really benefiting from 'stealing' a mod. I mean, seriously. In the best case scenario, the mod author gets more notoriety, because users search for the mod name (ie. Commonwealth Cuts, I had to search for because I couldn't find it on the nexus after downloading it on Xbox One). Because to be honest, I don't know the author name of Commonwealth Cuts.

 

The worst case, the mod author has to say "sorry, the only way I can fix your problem is if you uninstall THAT mod, and give me a bit of time to upload MY original version so that you may continue to enjoy my work."

 

So. Yeah.

boomerizer wrote: I also can't speak for how mods work, I know.

 

But I know that adding new 'physical' assets like armor, weapons, clothes, new workshop items-- those shouldn't really require tweaking between PC and Xbox. Fallout 4 is Fallout 4 either way you look at it.

 

Complex mods like quest lines, sure I can see where there might be some trouble. And worse, graphical enhancements-- yeah I get it. It's not just a simple port. But without only 2GB to play with, my only concern is adding physical assets, rather than trying to make the game look better-- because FO4 already looks pretty dang good. I wish I could download more than I have, though-- I sure would like to see quest mods like Skryims Falskaar and Lost City... but one of those mods is 2GB or more on its own.

 

Besides, you've created a mod, put a lot of work into it, and then uploaded it online-- your involvement is basically done. It's not like you have to worry about mass producing a physical object. Yet, you've made one product that now ANYONE can get for themselves. And if you've done your job right, there should be no need to fix anything.

 

You have no way of knowing if it works on console unless you own one yourself, upload your mod yourself, and test it, yourself. A lot of work that you might not want to do, but someone else already has? How does that add stress to you?

Nemesis8727 wrote: I agree with 95% of the things you say. The last 5% is the stuff I forgot after I read it.

I have created stuff in the past and I don't care how people use it or how they get it.

If they get it on some site no one uses (bethesda.net) where they wont thank me anyway if I took the time to upload it.

Or if they got it here on nexus, I don't care.

I can understand if creators do care but I think its just waste of energy to go complain on a site no one uses.

If I download a mod on nexus I look on the info, how to, FAQ and if I'm impressed I might look over the authors other mods but on a console I just want to press download.

EffELOfficial wrote: Wow. Flamewar. Right there. Your Burger analogy is more like the relationship between Mod Authors and the Nexus. The Nexus being the Waitress. Only difference is that the Cook's name is pasted on the plate, there.

 

Holy crap, that's an excellent idea, restaurants should do that.

Brabbit1987 wrote: I pretty much agree as well. I think this is being made into a much bigger deal than it actually is. In fact, I would say the over reaction just made the situation worse.

 

I also, think the easiest way to prevent this is to upload your mod before anyone else does.

 

Now the only reason I agree is because it's pretty much the only thing that can be done at the moment, unless you want to go through the process of taking down your mod uploaded by someone else.

 

I do think people should not be stealing. Let's say for example, the mod author doesn't want to make their mod available to consoles. I believe that should be respected. However, that is not the way things tend to work when it comes to things like this. Not everyone respects one another, and that honestly should be obvious.

 

It sort of similar in a way to piracy. Yes, it sucks, but as a developer you should be thinking ahead and how you will deal with it. I myself, would upload my own game so people can torrent it. I am more about getting my game out there, than I am for trying to make every last penny I possibly can.

 

So if you are a mod developer and you decide not to release it on consoles, you have to expect someone is going to do it for you, whether you like it or not. At least for now.

 

Bethesda has something in the works to lessen these issues. I doubt it will stop it entirely though.

boomerizer wrote: Maybe not in the manner that I think you mean. In a lot of restaurants, there are multiple people that work on your order. I used to work in a kitchen, at a resort-- up to the entire kitchen might have something to do with your order. One guy grills the meat, another one assembles it, someone else makes the sides, another person might make another side.... that, and some kitchen employees don't stick around long enough to make plastering a name on a plate cost effective. Notice how I'm getting into monetary value, now?

 

Mod authors don't have that concern, now do they? Money. Their product (mods) is free. And you can't steal that which is free.

boomerizer wrote: woah, brabbit. wish I'd seen this before posting to the one above you.

 

Right, there should be steps taken to prevent it, but like piracy, it can't be fully protected against. I mean, these state-of-the-art pirated copies of stuff are often still released even before the actual product is released. With games, online features are often forgone since that is the only way to verify a legit copy. Online authentication. Can't do that with mods, though-- as they are acquired digitally. How would you stop mod theft?

 

You can't stop thieves. In order to do that, you'd have to remove either the desire, or the opportunity. The only way to remove the opportunity is to not upload the mod at all. So you have to focus on deterring the desire to 'steal'. Best way to do that, is to be the first to upload your mod to the new medium. And if you don't like consoles, or just don't have the time, then you sort of have to concede the point.

Ethreon wrote: <<I'm ok with theft as long as I get what I want and the victim is given credit. What's the harm after all, I get what I want, everyone is happy.>>

 

 

:rolleyes:

boomerizer wrote: It's not theft because this s*** is free. There is no physical loss. You still have the mod page. You still have the mod assets on your computer. Oh my god, the pain.

Ethreon wrote: Please go back to the woods.

 

OP disagrees with you in clear terms.

Mod makers disagree with you in clear terms.

Beth disagrees with you in clear terms.

Law disagrees with you.

Common sense does too.

Billy1969 wrote: boomerizer, you're obviously a gamefaq console forum cesspool troll, please take your filth back there, k thx.

Brabbit1987 wrote: @Billy1969

 

Is name calling really necessary?

boomerizer wrote: Brabbit: Of course, it is necessary for the unintelligent to resort to name-calling, when they don't have an argument that can stand on its own merit.

 

 

Never been to GameFaq. At least, not knowingly.

 

I actually spend most of my time playing and enjoying games. In fact, before my first post here, today, I was playing Fallout 4. On my PC.

 

I love Bethesda games so much I own them on PC/Steam AND Xbox 360/One. I buy the games twice. Because I'm a gamer. (And because I'm married and sometimes play with-and-or-at-the-same-time-as my wife.)(And because I might have a gaming problem.)

BuffHamster wrote: What Ethreon said is quite true.

 

Try this logic on for size: If the mod authors are disrespected and the get angry enough with their content being bootlegged, "pffft! there goes your 'free' mods" ie; no longer available to the public. You now have to pay for them with Bitcoin."

 

 

Epic Fail in Logic. If the burger was not cooked well, or the meal was ice cold when it reached you, or was not prepared to your liking:

Do you still tip? Yes?, what a rube.

Do you complain to the wait staff? Awesome, where does that complaint go? Ah yes, the wait staff reports back to the kitchen staff.

Tips? Guess what? They are usually shared with the kitchen staff, so, bad preparation and poorly cleared tables = no tips, and later, a decline in the customer base followed by the establishment shutting down and everyone on the street.

 

You really need to think the apathy thing through here, rather than use superficial excuses for that feeling of entitlement. The Mod Authors owe you nothing, you on the other hand owe them, at the least, a modicum of thankful respect for creating a product that you obviously do not have the ability to do yourself.

EDIT:

 

Another epic fail in logic. Alternative to "uploading it first", how about "not uploading at all"?, or uploading content that turns your console into a doorstop?

Mods that use external requirements, such as Fallout 4 Script Extender, will not run on the console, ... accept it.

There are many ways the mod author can prevent their work from being pirated, and many have already taken this route.

boomerizer wrote: You're assuming the burger is ill prepared.

 

The mods I download are typically complete, and not broken-- as I've yet to download an incomplete or broken mod on my console. (well, I've downloaded a Hide Pipboy one that didn't work, but the answer to that was simply Disable and Delete.)

 

If something is broken or does not work, I disable or uninstall as appropriate, and leave it at that. If its a mod I really like or want to see, I check on it later. I don't harass the author. I just wait for it to be usable.

 

But that is because I know that modding can be risky. It can break the savegame, or even the game itself. If something doesn't work right, I move on. If my game gets broke, I reinstall and move on.

 

What a monster I am.

Billy1969 wrote: Actually I was wrong, it's not a gamefaq console forum troll, excuse me for that, seeing his constant repeating that mod stealing is no theft, in more or less difficult words that the unintelligent like me don't understand I stand corrected he is in fact Pobatti aka MasterMagnus aka a dozen other account names, the console Jesus.

 

EDIT: and he even uses multiple accounts to talk to himself and pat himself on the back, LMAO too funny! Seriously some peeps should be locked up in a straight jacket and the key thrown away in a deep pit.

moddersrule1969 wrote: Now I'm hungry. Thanks.

BuffHamster wrote:

 

No, just an uninformed fool who insists on swimming against the tide of opinion, and law.

 

Whether you personally think that because it is free, therfore it can not be stolen, does not fly in the courts. It has been explained to you over and over again, it is illegal, that is, posting someone else's work and claiming it as your own is called plagiarism and in many countries, it is against the Law. You can be prosecuted. You can be sued.

 

Is that what you are supporting? Piracy? Theft of Intellectual Property? Are you advocating that it is perfectly okay to do this?

 

Is that the corner that you wish to paint yourself into?

_______________________________________________

@moddersrule1969: Burgers and fries on me. want Coke or Diet Coke?

iRodd wrote: Let's put this simply: I made this mod. It's mine. I do whatever I want with it. You don't have any rights to distribute it. No, I don't care whether it's good or it's bad, if people want it or not. The mod is mine, and I decide what to do with it. If I don't want console users to use it just because I'm idiot and I dislike them, or there actually are reasons for that, I'm the one who decides it. Capiche?

boomerizer wrote: Nope. Just that I'm not going to be held to a standard that the modders aren't going to be.

 

Wanna prove to me you're not against stolen mods? How bout we start taking down mods that contain stolen, plagiarized content. See a more recent post of mine that lists a couple of these mods. But if you've been on here long enough, a list doesn't really need to be compiled. You'll already know some.

kingtobbe wrote: @boomerizer:

What you don't seem to realize is that creative control of a mod, getting the credit for it is what leads many mod makers to keep chasing the content creating dragon so to speak. Their content is their baby. If you take that away from then and even invert those positive feelings that mod maker will eventually stop making content. Which will lead to very little content available for everyone including console users, especially since console users are unable to create content without also being a PC user.

 

I don't even think that mod pirating as some have called this is a fair comparison. Mods are not commercially produced by people who do work with money as incentive. Thus it's far more destructive to mod making than it is for game and software developers (and that is saying a lot as it can be quite devastating for smaller studios and devs).

 

 

Mods that have more files than a plugin require more work than simply a quick repack with XB1 appropriate compression of archives. For example, a simple retexture of say Kellogs armor quickly de-saturated (Ctrl+Shift+U, Ctrl+S - done!) in Photoshop to make it black (you know the first mods that appeared on Nexus when FO4 was new) consists of just one file that you normally on PC just have to put in ..\Data\Textures\Armor\Kellogg\ and you are good to go. For it to work on XB1 which requires that you pack files to BA2 archives in the Creation Kit you need to make a plugin (esp) and setup a material swap pointing to a custom material file (bgsm). And this without mentioning that a author might have to consider what resolution and DDS compression that works best on XB1 and other performance issues that may require a lot of tweaking to get just right.

 

This is just to have a very simple mod originally consisting of a single dds-file. Most mods are far more complex and thus require far more work to function relatively similar on XB1 as it did on PC.

 

Additional reasons could that I should mentioned are for example:

 

- You are using tidbits of content by another author(s) that you either by legal reasons or just out of courtesy need to ask for a new permission or try remaking it yourself. Most permissions requires a separate permission for you to upload it to another site. If someones steals your mod you will get in trouble with authors you have permissions to use work for on Nexus but not off-site.

 

- You are waiting for Bethesda to update their platform so it's not so damn buggy and limiting in it's modpage functions. 2000 characters are not enough to describe most mods especially considering that users can't see what files are included when they install it I personally would like to describe what files a mod adds/changes as this will help to manage load orders and mod compatibility. And more advanced XB1 users might want to know what exactly they are downloading.

 

- The CK is in open beta and are not very reliable, especially when it comes to uploading your mod to another platform, I've had files both missing from archives or unrelated files being added despite not selecting them in the file list prior to packaging a mod. Other people have way more serious problems and thus many are currently delayed in their work due to this.

- Some authors are cunts. While true it doesn't justify stealing from them. It only justify you not interacting with them in the community.

 

 

Conclusion, stealing mods are ruining for everyone. I've said it many times, to both authors and users, this is a asymmetrical symbiosis. Don't bite the hand that feeds you or potentially could at least. If you can't see that you haven't understood whats going on and should refrain from commenting on the issue further until you have, or just ignore it. This issue, seen from both users and authors perspective is simple, you are either part of the community or against it. And that is just without touching the legality of the issue which Bethesda has made very clear.

boomerizer wrote: @kingtobbe

 

Thank you. You've worded it in a way that I understand better than whats been flung my way today. You have effectively illustrated to me how it is.

 

I'm still on the 'if credit is given' side, then I don't rightly care. But now I'm not so.. what is the word here? Wanting? Looking for understanding.

 

I'm sure many other posters here will be relieved-- I'm out, for now. I need food. And to wreck some super mutants. And to ignore Preston Garvey some more.

HadToRegister wrote: @OP, in SIX YEARS, you've endorsed ONCE.

iRodd wrote: Ok, you're trying to convince me that I use stolen mods too. Cool, maybe I do, but that's pretty irrelevant. Now, tell me: why stealing mods wouldn't be bad? For example: I created a mod and a lot of people liked it, then they start asking for a console version. If it is possible, I have the time, the means and the will, I'll port it. Else, I could trust someone else to do so, just like a lot of armor mods out there. Or, for any reason, not port it at all. This is fine, you wouldn't even be able to use my mod if I hadn't uploaded it to the Nexus in the first place, to respect my wish is the least you can do.

 

You can't just download the mod and upload it somewhere else, don't you see? You're disrespecting the author, who you should be grateful to for creating the mod. You can't just think "Hey, he would like to see his mod being used everywhere, so I'll upload it elsewhere!", you aren't the author nor know how he feels and thinks. If you really want port a mod to a console, ask the author first. Stop thinking just about yourself, I can barely believe you're married that way.

Roblade wrote: The cook sure the hell does care who does and doesn't get the burger. We like to know when people like boomerizer are ordering. I think nexus should have a Banned from mod list for authors to reject users, keeping them from being able to download track or comment on a mod. or the authors entire collection of mods. As a Chef I have that, it is a little sign on my front glass, it says " I reserve the right to refuse service." I've only ever used that right twice, after all you can't refuse everyone and stay in business, but I've made some very public refusals, once tossed out a man for fondling one of my waitresses.

@boomerizer: What you, and many, many others, apparently don't seem to understand is, it all boils down to a matter of respect.

 

The legality arguments, laying out of the rules, the naming conventions, if it's called theft, piracy or what-have-you, and all the funny analogies people may come up with, are all fine and dandy, but... ultimately they don't matter.

 

What does matter is, plain and simply, these authors have no reason to be sharing their works with you, none, nada, at all, despite maybe their own willingness to share. Sharing is not part of the hobby, it's only an afterthought. They mod for themselves first and foremost, and then, out of the goodness of their heart or whatever, decide to go the extra mile and make it usable by others, share it, and maintain comments sections to offer support and perhaps also hear you out on suggestions or ideas for improvements. But at the end of the day "you", as in "the users", are not needed in the equation and can and will, from an author's point of view, very easily be eliminated again at any point in time, and it will only ever be a win to themselves, a loss only to you.

 

It doesn't matter "why" they decided to distribute and manage their mods in so-or-so ways, or what places they choose to have their mods available at or not. They created it, they decide, you "respect" it, period.

 

If you don't, and make yourself more of a bother than it's worth for them, which is where you're heading with your attitude, and everybody agreeing with it while not seeing the big picture in the background, you eliminate their desire to share with you. They don't have any reason to, it's not like you're giving them anything back for it, not even a thanks mostly, and they most definitely do not benefit from your usage of their mods. Instead it "costs" them, actually, time, effort, and in your and other people's cases also nerves and heartache a lot.

 

If you disrespect them and their work as atrociously as to actively support someone who "stole" their work, as you do, no matter what he's going to do with it, he took it without asking first, and that's blatant disrespect to those people, sometimes even doing something that's completely against their expressed wishes, then "you" are making yourself their enemy and in their eyes no longer deserving access to their mods.

 

With increasing numbers of "you" their desire to keep sharing rapidly dwindles. And as it's absolutely no loss at all to them to just stop, at one point sooner or later they will. And that's where you're heading, if you keep at it, increasingly less and less mods shared with the public, for the public is becoming more a bother than the effort is worth. And a gain it never was.

 

The number of authors speaking up against your mindset in here should be telling, but apparently it's not. Be assured though that the number you're seeing here is only the pinnacle of the iceberg, as they say, and a lot more even are just silently sitting back and watching you people now, then making their decision if publicly sharing is still "worth it" in their eyes or not. As we speak, and the things on Bethesda.net keep going on the way they are now for only a little longer, the balance is quickly tipping towards your deficit, and in numbers you can't even fathom in your weirdest nightmares. Keep up with this attitude of your's, stay a part of the problem instead of helping in coming to a solution, and they'll soon become reality.

 

You're happy to see mods finally coming to consoles? Guess again, they won't be for much longer, if people can't even be bothered to give at least the minimum amount of respect to those who create these mods. You think this situation is blown out of proportion? Think again, because these creators disagree. You think they shouldn't care as much as they do? Guess what, but they do! And they won't ever stop just because you say so.

 

This blatant disrespect thrown at these benevolent people in scales beyond your wildest imagination right now really cannot be taken by everybody, and by most others not endlessly so either. It gets to their heart, it turns them away, it makes them no longer "want" to share.

 

Is this what you're aiming for? 'Cause then, congratulations, you're achieving it.

 

Thanks for coming in and try to enter some empathy and reasoning to this individual.

 

At this point this is just becoming disgusting. No matter how obvious and strong the answers we give to him, he just keep answering with the same fallacies over and over and over.

 

I wish he was banned but at the end this doesn't fix anything since sadly, many children share his views. At this point I will just ignore his existence and any words he writes.

Edited June 19, 2016 by CliveBarker

[Jinxxed0]

There are two ways the thievery can stop (I could only read like 1/4th of this. im burnt out from reading in school. so sorry if these things are mentioned):

 

Bethesda can let console players upload "private use mods". They can upload whatever they want for personal use without anyone else ever seeing it. For example as a PC player, I like modify 99% of every mod I use and then repackage them for loading onto NMM. Why not let console players do that? That way they can create their own "collection" or whatever, modify the mod how they want if they happen to even know how, and they get access to mods that are just floating around without hurting the mod authors. I mean, you can't sit there and tell me that a mod author is upset knowing someone is editing their mod for personal use.

 

 

The second "solution", and lazinest/stupidest, but effective solution (yet terrible idea) is to make your mod contain adult content, require something like MCM, etc etc. And then you can upload the regular version of your mod to Bethesda.net But really, I think my first solution would cut down on it dramatically. I might be underestimating the amount of xbone users who are only uploading mods for the "glory". I would imagine most of them are uploading people's mods because they want the mods.

 

Bethesda needs to do something fast though because it's going to be a million times worse with Skyrim remastered is released. I can already see at least 10% of modders taking down their mods. And I can already see thousands of abandoned mods being uploaded by random people. I really feel like the private mods thing is a really good solution. It stops the thieving and also adds inf. customization to the end users.

[Castironwolf]

Thanks for posting this, it really helps to know where the Nexus stands.

[BahamutBBob]

A few years ago, I worked with another guy from the facepunch forums to bring a model into Garry's Mod. Some douche ended up stealing it, and uploading it on FPSbanana within a couple weeks. It was kinda bullshit.

[Davis237834]

Good read, thanks for looking out for us Dark0ne!

 

I am sorta half dreading the return of paid mods, and hope that Bethesda get their heads out of their ass or their community managers start earning their keep by getting this issue sorted out asap.

Edited June 19, 2016 by Davis237834

[Lisnpuppy]

Let me see if I can take a shot at this one.

 

I am an artist. I love to paint and draw but it is a hobby not a career. I just like when people like them. So I paint a lovely scene of a church and country lane. I make them into a bunch of small prints and give them out on the street to whomever would like them. My name is at the bottom as all artist typically are. People are happy. I am happy. So I pack up my things and go home.

 

A few weeks later I walk by an art gallery and there is my print, I did not give the print to the gallery. I go in to talk to the gallery owner and they kinda brush me off even though I have proof the work is mine. I walk out upset and there is a large group of people pointing at the work and they look mad. One person yells, "That is the one that painted the cards like the picture! Get her!!" I then run for my life...possibly regretting having shared something I loved with others.

 

I now see the print everywhere. And most people no longer know I painted it. It is being used in all kinds of places I did not intend and I am not given credit for it.

 

So this is how I see the mod theft thing.

[MarchinBunny]

Let me see if I can take a shot at this one.

 

I am an artist. I love to paint and draw but it is a hobby not a career. I just like when people like them. So I paint a lovely scene of a church and country lane. I make them into a bunch of small prints and give them out on the street to whomever would like them. My name is at the bottom as all artist typically are. People are happy. I am happy. So I pack up my things and go home.

 

A few weeks later I walk by an art gallery and there is my print, I did not give the print to the gallery. I go in to talk to the gallery owner and they kinda brush me off even though I have proof the work is mine. I walk out upset and there is a large group of people pointing at the work and they look mad. One person yells, "That is the one that painted the cards like the picture! Get her!!" I then run for my life...possibly regretting having shared something I loved with others.

 

I now see the print everywhere. And most people no longer know I painted it. It is being used in all kinds of places I did not intend and I am not given credit for it.

 

So this is how I see the mod theft thing.

Not really entirely the same thing here. What is going on here would be more like drawing a base for people to use to draw their own characters, but then having that person upload that base somewhere else.

 

Personally, I don't care ... that type of thing doesn't bother me because I feel it's hypocritical to care about such a thing, but then repost other art from companies and such and also drawing their characters. As long as no one is claiming it as their own nor are the some how misrepresenting my work, it's all good in my opinion.

[jonboy]

In response to post #39520310. #39520525, #39520890 are all replies on the same post.

acidzebra wrote:

Does anyone disagree that _in principle_ an author should be able to determine how his/her work is used? That an author should rightfully retain some level of control over his/her work? That it is not right for someone to take an author's work and pass it of as his own? I really hope these are things most people can agree on.

 

Now it is also true that _de facto_ the internet and very nature of digital information make it very hard to actually exercise said control. But authors still release their work on the internet, for free, for people to enjoy. You should appreciate that.

 

Community happens when authors express certain wishes about their work and those wishes are respected and observed by the rest of the community - you know, when people respect each other in general? Otherwise, what you have is just a bunch of leeches and not a community at all. You will likely lose a lot of potential mods in a situation like that, as authors feel disrespected and unappreciated and will stop sharing.

 

Personal views: I've set my mods (where possible) to the most liberal permissions. Take them, remix them, reupload them, share alike, port them when skyrim remaster comes out, go nuts. I'm not offering technical support on any of it, you're on your own. Don't have a console, don't care. It'd be nice if you mention me somewhere if you do something with the mods, but I don't even care all that much tbh. But some mod authors feel differently. And while you may disagree with their views (I personally think it's a fool's errand to try and control stuff you put on the internet for free), if you appreciate their works and want to see more, you should probably respect their wishes, or they will stop contributing, and I'd rather lose a bunch of non-contributing leeches with big mouths than people who produce neat things for free.

Brabbit1987 wrote: Great post and 100% agree. Especially with your personal views. I also think it's a bit of a fools errand. A losing battle if you will.

I do feel people should respect their wishes though regardless, but we all know how well that has been going.

AFKRoger wrote: I completely agree, but I believe this issue more with the fact that's its happening with in the community not that is happening out in the wild.

Bethesda was always a part of the community.

Well said. The root issue is creator control of their art. Just because the Internet allows bootlegging and infinite copying and distributing does not make it right.

[RealmEleven]

Hi Dark0ne, from the other side of the world...

 

I do love the sound of one hand clapping in the morning.

 

I think it's past due on this particular group of topics. Speaking of which, well done keeping it under 6000 words. There's a lot to say about this because it really IS a complex issue.

 

People of different temperament have different motives for doing any given thing; including modding. For some of us, it's about having a bit more fun with the game and, with all the people trying to tell others how to make their decisions and judging anyone who is not just like them, those of us just wanting a bit of fun feel far less inclined to publish anything. For others, it's about the esteem that comes from other people's appreciation of a job that is well done and, in the absence of any credit for the work, these ones have no reason to contribute. For some, its always about money and, for yet another minority, it's about "doing the right thing"; evidently, as long as they, themselves, are not the ones having to do the hard yards. For some, it's about sharing an experience and there are also those who use modding to collaborate with others in their experience of a game which does not allow for multiplayer engagement. Some, even, are strongly motivated by the sense of empowerment which comes from finding new and creative ways to force the game engine to operate, reliably, well outside its design parameters.

 

Just because some, or even most, don't care about a given motive doesn't mean that motive is “deviant” or invalid in any way. It just means that some people are woefully ignorant about the fact that there is no such thing as “normal” behaviour because temperament and behaviour are, statistically, multimodal not normal. The only way to “just get on”, in the face of this factual social diversity, is to avoid doing things which violate the rights of others. And rights are simply the reasonable expectations which arise, in common, from the participation of all concerned in a particular activity (E.g. intellectual property rights). There is no point, no matter who you are, in investing time and effort into anything if you are to be deprived of the benefit you perceived arising from the time and effort in question. To this end, we all have every right to choose not to invest the time and effort, just as we all have the right to choose to invest our time and effort – and it seems to me that it's the kind of people, who are accustomed to having other people do their dirty work, who are generally the first ones to pass judgement whenever they dislike a decision someone-else has every right to make. This is the real hubris (not to be confused with pride, which is a healthy emotional response to personal achievement) and it's this arrogant attitude to the liberties and freedoms and rights of others which is the biggest part of the problem, as I see it.

 

So, to sum up:

When something is not ones call to make, it's not ones call.

Period. Full Stop. Heave to and reef the sails!

Some people need to get over it or get therapy.

Edited June 19, 2016 by RealmEleven