What can be done to defuse America?

[PoorlyAged]

Politicians are Evil. THAT I would most certainly agree with, considering it seems to have become the national passtime to vilify the 'other guys', regardless of if you are in power or not. It also seems to be political fashion not to pass laws that help the people, but to UNDO what your predecessor (of the other party) did. And the minority partys' sole purpose in life becomes making sure the party in power doesn't get anything of significance done. Currently, the government only seems to pass laws that benefit THEM. Of course, they have been doing that for the last several decades..... If you aren't wealthy when you go in to congress, you most certainly are by the time you come out.... and NOT from the nice salary that they are able to legislate themselves.......

 

Our GOVERNMENT is our biggest problem in this country. They try and legislate morality. For the last three or four decades, they have been more interested in dictating how we live our lives, rather than finding ways to improve them. And each and every additional step they take makes our lives WORSE, not better. Why does it happen that way? Because it puts more money in THEIR pocket. (all of them, doesn't matter which party)

 

Want to improve the country? Improve the government. Think you can do it with your vote? Think again. If it hasn't become patently obvious that our votes don't mean a tinkers damn any more, then you need to crawl out from under your rock, and take a look around. Things need to change, but, attempting to work within the system is doomed to failure before you even start, as the only folks that have the ability to change anything, are the very same folks that benefit the most from NOT changing anything. Term limits? Salary caps? Campaign finance reform? None of that will happen under the current conditions. Much as Trump may want to do some of it, congress won't pass it.

 

Except for one annoying little detail that keeps tickling the back of my mind. In America, the people are the government. It says so right here on the label.

Edited August 11, 2017 by PoorlyAged

[PoorlyAged]

Yeah, I don't think bringing up Nietzsche in terms of politics is all that helpful. lol

 

And I don't just mean the loose connection to Hitler or Goebbels. I won't go for the obvious.

 

I mean, I think Nietzsche's true "Superman" was none other than Conan. Someone like that at least..which was Robert E Howard's intention (Conan's creator). Someone with almost childlike disregard for civilization and the will to power to beat it over the head. It's sounds cool for a second, but that's about it.

 

Religion.. this is difficult to address without screwing up the thread. You may not like religion, but at the very least, it has communal values. That can be helpful in bringing people together. It can be harmful too, but in America, it hasn't been harmful like other periods in history.

 

If religion has got ya down (and I don't blame you at times), think of some other periods where it really uplifted the country. Martin Luther King Jr. comes to mind. Or maybe just by pointing him out, I can neutralize what you're saying a little. Sometimes it's bad. Sometimes it's good. :smile:

 

By this, I take it that you disagree with the statement "Government is about a set of laws which allow disparate peoples and their beliefs to live together without killing each other".

 

I made no value judgement about religion in general or any religion specifically. You are reading that into my comments and making some invalid assumptions based on your misinterpretation. I said "The over valuing of religious belief has too great an influence in political discussion". People over value their beliefs and under value other peoples beliefs. People are the problem, not religion itself.

 

I quoted the only part of Nietzsche's philosophy that is germane to my point. Here again you are reading way too much into my comments and taking my thoughts in a completely wrong direction. But you sound good doing it.

Edited August 11, 2017 by PoorlyAged

[kthompsen]

 

Yeah, I don't think bringing up Nietzsche in terms of politics is all that helpful. lol

 

And I don't just mean the loose connection to Hitler or Goebbels. I won't go for the obvious.

 

I mean, I think Nietzsche's true "Superman" was none other than Conan. Someone like that at least..which was Robert E Howard's intention (Conan's creator). Someone with almost childlike disregard for civilization and the will to power to beat it over the head. It's sounds cool for a second, but that's about it.

 

Religion.. this is difficult to address without screwing up the thread. You may not like religion, but at the very least, it has communal values. That can be helpful in bringing people together. It can be harmful too, but in America, it hasn't been harmful like other periods in history.

 

If religion has got ya down (and I don't blame you at times), think of some other periods where it really uplifted the country. Martin Luther King Jr. comes to mind. Or maybe just by pointing him out, I can neutralize what you're saying a little. Sometimes it's bad. Sometimes it's good. :smile:

 

By this, I take it that you disagree with the statement "Government is about a set of laws which allow disparate peoples and their beliefs to live together without killing each other".

 

I made no value judgement about religion in general or any religion specifically. You are reading that into my comments and making some invalid assumptions based on your misinterpretation. I said "The over valuing of religious belief has too great an influence in political discussion". People over value their beliefs and under value other peoples beliefs. People are the problem, not religion itself.

 

I quoted the only part of Nietzsche's philosophy that is germane to my point. Here again you are reading way too much into my comments and taking my thoughts in a completely wrong direction. But you sound good doing it.

 

 

Well, Nietzsche's views in that statement meant more than just the statement itself. That's why I went there. I'm more concerned with his whole worldview.

 

As for religion, sure, it can be detrimental in the way you say. I'm not going to disagree. But I don't think that's the current problem at all. The turbulence we're experiencing is mostly political and philosophical imo. It's hard to discuss this though without getting into specifics (either yours or my own) and I don't want to ruin the thread.

 

edit: Actually, I'm gonna try to provide an example. I'm going all in here, come what may (Mods, please don't ban me.. just edit my post).

 

Lets assume you mean religious differences has led to a clash between Christian and Islamic believers, and that the immigration policy for the current ruling party is just a "cover" for simple xenophobia. That's all just just "overvaluing one belief over another" as you say.

 

I'll tell you why it's not as religious as you think. Because when it comes down to it, these two believe in similar things. And are both Abrahamic traditions from the Middle East. It has nothing to do with a religious clash, except in the most superficial sense. In fact, if Muslims ruled the whole country, these Christians would eventually welcome it. They are the ONLY ___ ONLY___ outsiders who could. No one else has a chance. It's been that way for over a thousand years, in areas where Christians got dominated. They are the only ones who thrive in it, besides the Muslims themselves. Everyone else is completely screwed. Christians only slightly screwed. The fact that modern leftists go on marches with Linda Sarsour and think she's their friend is hilarious. They'll be the first to go.

 

The real reason there's a clash, in my view, is that the Right is more libertarian and individualistic and fears what Islam eventually will try to do. Although they could live under Sharia conditions, they don't WANT to. And they don't want others to. They want that to be a choice. They are more pluralistic than you give them credit for. It's why you haven't seen any of this drama when it comes to Buddhists or Hindus (BTW, I'm a half Asian with a Buddhist mom and white father, who's Christian. I'm living proof of this!).

 

Lastly, the reasons why things are going bad is because the Left has lost all of their messaging (some of which was good) and just fall back on Identity Politics for everything. "That's racist!" Even I'm in danger of being called "Racist!" just for typing this, despite being half Asian/White and actually voting for Hillary (it's true). You can't even offer any dissent from the "Approved Message" without being turned into a monster of some kind these days. You want to defuse America? Take the microphone away from SJWs.. Their heart may be in the right place, but they are too hypersensitive for their own good.

Edited August 11, 2017 by kthompsen

[PoorlyAged]

 

 

Yeah, I don't think bringing up Nietzsche in terms of politics is all that helpful. lol

 

And I don't just mean the loose connection to Hitler or Goebbels. I won't go for the obvious.

 

I mean, I think Nietzsche's true "Superman" was none other than Conan. Someone like that at least..which was Robert E Howard's intention (Conan's creator). Someone with almost childlike disregard for civilization and the will to power to beat it over the head. It's sounds cool for a second, but that's about it.

 

Religion.. this is difficult to address without screwing up the thread. You may not like religion, but at the very least, it has communal values. That can be helpful in bringing people together. It can be harmful too, but in America, it hasn't been harmful like other periods in history.

 

If religion has got ya down (and I don't blame you at times), think of some other periods where it really uplifted the country. Martin Luther King Jr. comes to mind. Or maybe just by pointing him out, I can neutralize what you're saying a little. Sometimes it's bad. Sometimes it's good. :smile:

 

By this, I take it that you disagree with the statement "Government is about a set of laws which allow disparate peoples and their beliefs to live together without killing each other".

 

I made no value judgement about religion in general or any religion specifically. You are reading that into my comments and making some invalid assumptions based on your misinterpretation. I said "The over valuing of religious belief has too great an influence in political discussion". People over value their beliefs and under value other peoples beliefs. People are the problem, not religion itself.

 

I quoted the only part of Nietzsche's philosophy that is germane to my point. Here again you are reading way too much into my comments and taking my thoughts in a completely wrong direction. But you sound good doing it.

 

 

Well, Nietzsche's views in that statement meant more than just the statement itself. That's why I went there. I'm more concerned with his whole worldview.

 

As for religion, sure, it can be detrimental in the way you say. I'm not going to disagree. But I don't think that's the current problem at all. The turbulence we're experiencing is mostly political and philosophical imo. It's hard to discuss this though without getting into specifics (either yours or my own) and I don't want to ruin the thread.

 

edit: Actually, I'm gonna try to provide an example. I'm going all in here, come what may (Mods, please don't ban me.. just edit my post).

 

Lets assume you mean religious differences has led to a clash between Christian and Islamic believers, and that the immigration policy for the current ruling party is just a "cover" for simple xenophobia. That's all just just "overvaluing one belief over another" as you say.

 

I'll tell you why it's not as religious as you think. Because when it comes down to it, these two believe in similar things. And are both Abrahamic traditions from the Middle East. It has nothing to do with a religious clash, except in the most superficial sense. In fact, if Muslims ruled the whole country, these Christians would eventually welcome it. They are the ONLY ___ ONLY___ outsiders who could. No one else has a chance. It's been that way for over a thousand years, in areas where Christians got dominated. They are the only ones who thrive in it, besides the Muslims themselves. Everyone else is completely screwed. Christians only slightly screwed. The fact that modern leftists go on marches with Linda Sarsour and think she's their friend is hilarious. They'll be the first to go.

 

The real reason there's a clash, in my view, is that the Right is more libertarian and individualistic and fears what Islam eventually will try to do. Although they could live under Sharia conditions, they don't WANT to. And they don't want others to. They want that to be a choice. They are more pluralistic than you give them credit for. It's why you haven't seen any of this drama when it comes to Buddhists or Hindus (BTW, I'm a half Asian with a Buddhist mom and white father, who's Christian. I'm living proof of this!).

 

Lastly, the reasons why things are going bad is because the Left has lost all of their messaging (some of which was good) and just fall back on Identity Politics for everything. "That's racist!" Even I'm in danger of being called "Racist!" just for typing this, despite being half Asian/White and actually voting for Hillary (it's true). You can't even offer any dissent from the "Approved Message" without being turned into a monster of some kind these days. You want to defuse America? Take the microphone away from SJWs.. Their heart may be in the right place, but they are too hypersensitive for their own good.

 

 

After rereading both your posts, it is now obvious that you have an agenda all your own and are using my comment as a launching platform.

 

Well, I will state this as clearly and concisely as I can. Your comments have absolutely nothing to do with what I posted. It appears that you saw the word 'religious' and took of on a track all your own.

 

Forty two to you.

[HeyYou]

 

Politicians are Evil. THAT I would most certainly agree with, considering it seems to have become the national passtime to vilify the 'other guys', regardless of if you are in power or not. It also seems to be political fashion not to pass laws that help the people, but to UNDO what your predecessor (of the other party) did. And the minority partys' sole purpose in life becomes making sure the party in power doesn't get anything of significance done. Currently, the government only seems to pass laws that benefit THEM. Of course, they have been doing that for the last several decades..... If you aren't wealthy when you go in to congress, you most certainly are by the time you come out.... and NOT from the nice salary that they are able to legislate themselves.......

 

Our GOVERNMENT is our biggest problem in this country. They try and legislate morality. For the last three or four decades, they have been more interested in dictating how we live our lives, rather than finding ways to improve them. And each and every additional step they take makes our lives WORSE, not better. Why does it happen that way? Because it puts more money in THEIR pocket. (all of them, doesn't matter which party)

 

Want to improve the country? Improve the government. Think you can do it with your vote? Think again. If it hasn't become patently obvious that our votes don't mean a tinkers damn any more, then you need to crawl out from under your rock, and take a look around. Things need to change, but, attempting to work within the system is doomed to failure before you even start, as the only folks that have the ability to change anything, are the very same folks that benefit the most from NOT changing anything. Term limits? Salary caps? Campaign finance reform? None of that will happen under the current conditions. Much as Trump may want to do some of it, congress won't pass it.

 

Except for one annoying little detail that keeps tickling the back of my mind. In America, the people are the government. It says so right here on the label.

 

What it says on the label, and what's actually in the bottle, are two entirely different things. "The people" haven't counted much to the government for quite some time now.

[kthompsen]

 

 

 

Yeah, I don't think bringing up Nietzsche in terms of politics is all that helpful. lol

 

And I don't just mean the loose connection to Hitler or Goebbels. I won't go for the obvious.

 

I mean, I think Nietzsche's true "Superman" was none other than Conan. Someone like that at least..which was Robert E Howard's intention (Conan's creator). Someone with almost childlike disregard for civilization and the will to power to beat it over the head. It's sounds cool for a second, but that's about it.

 

Religion.. this is difficult to address without screwing up the thread. You may not like religion, but at the very least, it has communal values. That can be helpful in bringing people together. It can be harmful too, but in America, it hasn't been harmful like other periods in history.

 

If religion has got ya down (and I don't blame you at times), think of some other periods where it really uplifted the country. Martin Luther King Jr. comes to mind. Or maybe just by pointing him out, I can neutralize what you're saying a little. Sometimes it's bad. Sometimes it's good. :smile:

 

By this, I take it that you disagree with the statement "Government is about a set of laws which allow disparate peoples and their beliefs to live together without killing each other".

 

I made no value judgement about religion in general or any religion specifically. You are reading that into my comments and making some invalid assumptions based on your misinterpretation. I said "The over valuing of religious belief has too great an influence in political discussion". People over value their beliefs and under value other peoples beliefs. People are the problem, not religion itself.

 

I quoted the only part of Nietzsche's philosophy that is germane to my point. Here again you are reading way too much into my comments and taking my thoughts in a completely wrong direction. But you sound good doing it.

 

 

Well, Nietzsche's views in that statement meant more than just the statement itself. That's why I went there. I'm more concerned with his whole worldview.

 

As for religion, sure, it can be detrimental in the way you say. I'm not going to disagree. But I don't think that's the current problem at all. The turbulence we're experiencing is mostly political and philosophical imo. It's hard to discuss this though without getting into specifics (either yours or my own) and I don't want to ruin the thread.

 

edit: Actually, I'm gonna try to provide an example. I'm going all in here, come what may (Mods, please don't ban me.. just edit my post).

 

Lets assume you mean religious differences has led to a clash between Christian and Islamic believers, and that the immigration policy for the current ruling party is just a "cover" for simple xenophobia. That's all just just "overvaluing one belief over another" as you say.

 

I'll tell you why it's not as religious as you think. Because when it comes down to it, these two believe in similar things. And are both Abrahamic traditions from the Middle East. It has nothing to do with a religious clash, except in the most superficial sense. In fact, if Muslims ruled the whole country, these Christians would eventually welcome it. They are the ONLY ___ ONLY___ outsiders who could. No one else has a chance. It's been that way for over a thousand years, in areas where Christians got dominated. They are the only ones who thrive in it, besides the Muslims themselves. Everyone else is completely screwed. Christians only slightly screwed. The fact that modern leftists go on marches with Linda Sarsour and think she's their friend is hilarious. They'll be the first to go.

 

The real reason there's a clash, in my view, is that the Right is more libertarian and individualistic and fears what Islam eventually will try to do. Although they could live under Sharia conditions, they don't WANT to. And they don't want others to. They want that to be a choice. They are more pluralistic than you give them credit for. It's why you haven't seen any of this drama when it comes to Buddhists or Hindus (BTW, I'm a half Asian with a Buddhist mom and white father, who's Christian. I'm living proof of this!).

 

Lastly, the reasons why things are going bad is because the Left has lost all of their messaging (some of which was good) and just fall back on Identity Politics for everything. "That's racist!" Even I'm in danger of being called "Racist!" just for typing this, despite being half Asian/White and actually voting for Hillary (it's true). You can't even offer any dissent from the "Approved Message" without being turned into a monster of some kind these days. You want to defuse America? Take the microphone away from SJWs.. Their heart may be in the right place, but they are too hypersensitive for their own good.

 

 

After rereading both your posts, it is now obvious that you have an agenda all your own and are using my comment as a launching platform.

 

Well, I will state this as clearly and concisely as I can. Your comments have absolutely nothing to do with what I posted. It appears that you saw the word 'religious' and took of on a track all your own.

 

Forty two to you.

 

 

Agenda? On nexus? lol.. Strong word.

 

Damn.. I want to talk with you. Not over you.

 

I knew you might say it has nothing to do with what I said though. You already did this once. In which case, you're way too abstract for your own good. What exactly do you mean by "valuing one belief over another" then and how is this one of the country's current problems? Because what I just pointed out is the ONLY hot button issue in relation to that. The elephant in the room. It's the big thing hitting everyone in the face that needs to be defused, when it comes to belief. That of Christian/Islam relations, Trump's immigration measures, and cries of xenophobia/racism/etc.

 

Secondly, I pointed out that plurality has existed fine for awhile now. And I used myself to point this out. I'm living proof. Being half-Asian/Scandinavian, who grew up in a Buddhist/Christian household... in the South of Texas even. There are specifics to the problem above that makes it different now. It's not as simple as "one belief over another". If that was the case, I and anyone like me wouldn't exist.. or be a psychological mess. This country is already beautiful when it comes to plurality and diversity, and the nightmare that the media wants to create where it's not is complete nonsense. It tells me how sheltered they are themselves than anything else. And those who listen to it. My only agenda, if anything, is to be pissed off about this. Because it negates my very existence, in favor of fiction and hysteria.. where we somehow found ourselves in some racist ridden wasteland overnight.

Edited August 11, 2017 by kthompsen

[Aurielius]

 

 

Politicians are Evil. THAT I would most certainly agree with, considering it seems to have become the national passtime to vilify the 'other guys', regardless of if you are in power or not. It also seems to be political fashion not to pass laws that help the people, but to UNDO what your predecessor (of the other party) did. And the minority partys' sole purpose in life becomes making sure the party in power doesn't get anything of significance done. Currently, the government only seems to pass laws that benefit THEM. Of course, they have been doing that for the last several decades..... If you aren't wealthy when you go in to congress, you most certainly are by the time you come out.... and NOT from the nice salary that they are able to legislate themselves.......

 

Our GOVERNMENT is our biggest problem in this country. They try and legislate morality. For the last three or four decades, they have been more interested in dictating how we live our lives, rather than finding ways to improve them. And each and every additional step they take makes our lives WORSE, not better. Why does it happen that way? Because it puts more money in THEIR pocket. (all of them, doesn't matter which party)

 

Want to improve the country? Improve the government. Think you can do it with your vote? Think again. If it hasn't become patently obvious that our votes don't mean a tinkers damn any more, then you need to crawl out from under your rock, and take a look around. Things need to change, but, attempting to work within the system is doomed to failure before you even start, as the only folks that have the ability to change anything, are the very same folks that benefit the most from NOT changing anything. Term limits? Salary caps? Campaign finance reform? None of that will happen under the current conditions. Much as Trump may want to do some of it, congress won't pass it.

 

Except for one annoying little detail that keeps tickling the back of my mind. In America, the people are the government. It says so right here on the label.

 

What it says on the label, and what's actually in the bottle, are two entirely different things. "The people" haven't counted much to the government for quite some time now.

 

I agree in principle with PA...but practice and theory are distinctly separate realities. Out of the 535 people we have sent to Congress how many would one estimate are there for altruistic purposes? Given the constant flow of federal indictments for corruption / malfeasance every year since I can recall. My bet is that, there is a comfortable minority that went to DC to line their pockets rather than serve the nation. So in that sense I agree with HY's deep skepticism about who runs the country.

[kthompsen]

 

 

 

Politicians are Evil. THAT I would most certainly agree with, considering it seems to have become the national passtime to vilify the 'other guys', regardless of if you are in power or not. It also seems to be political fashion not to pass laws that help the people, but to UNDO what your predecessor (of the other party) did. And the minority partys' sole purpose in life becomes making sure the party in power doesn't get anything of significance done. Currently, the government only seems to pass laws that benefit THEM. Of course, they have been doing that for the last several decades..... If you aren't wealthy when you go in to congress, you most certainly are by the time you come out.... and NOT from the nice salary that they are able to legislate themselves.......

 

Our GOVERNMENT is our biggest problem in this country. They try and legislate morality. For the last three or four decades, they have been more interested in dictating how we live our lives, rather than finding ways to improve them. And each and every additional step they take makes our lives WORSE, not better. Why does it happen that way? Because it puts more money in THEIR pocket. (all of them, doesn't matter which party)

 

Want to improve the country? Improve the government. Think you can do it with your vote? Think again. If it hasn't become patently obvious that our votes don't mean a tinkers damn any more, then you need to crawl out from under your rock, and take a look around. Things need to change, but, attempting to work within the system is doomed to failure before you even start, as the only folks that have the ability to change anything, are the very same folks that benefit the most from NOT changing anything. Term limits? Salary caps? Campaign finance reform? None of that will happen under the current conditions. Much as Trump may want to do some of it, congress won't pass it.

 

Except for one annoying little detail that keeps tickling the back of my mind. In America, the people are the government. It says so right here on the label.

 

What it says on the label, and what's actually in the bottle, are two entirely different things. "The people" haven't counted much to the government for quite some time now.

 

I agree in principle with PA...but practice and theory are distinctly separate realities. Out of the 535 people we have sent to Congress how many would one estimate are there for altruistic purposes? Given the constant flow of federal indictments for corruption / malfeasance every year since I can recall. My bet is that, there is a comfortable minority that went to DC to line their pockets rather than serve the nation. So in that sense I agree with HY's deep skepticism about who runs the country.

 

 

What's even more pathetic to me is they don't even line their pockets with much, relatively speaking. They're very cheap. A 25k donation here, a 50k one here, a house here.. 100k on a very good day. They're a complete joke compared to actual wealth.. but they sell themselves and our country out for these small numbers.

 

I could almost respect an expensive prostitute. But these are the elite's equivalent of crackheads.

Edited August 11, 2017 by kthompsen

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

 

Politicians are Evil. THAT I would most certainly agree with, considering it seems to have become the national passtime to vilify the 'other guys', regardless of if you are in power or not. It also seems to be political fashion not to pass laws that help the people, but to UNDO what your predecessor (of the other party) did. And the minority partys' sole purpose in life becomes making sure the party in power doesn't get anything of significance done. Currently, the government only seems to pass laws that benefit THEM. Of course, they have been doing that for the last several decades..... If you aren't wealthy when you go in to congress, you most certainly are by the time you come out.... and NOT from the nice salary that they are able to legislate themselves.......

 

Our GOVERNMENT is our biggest problem in this country. They try and legislate morality. For the last three or four decades, they have been more interested in dictating how we live our lives, rather than finding ways to improve them. And each and every additional step they take makes our lives WORSE, not better. Why does it happen that way? Because it puts more money in THEIR pocket. (all of them, doesn't matter which party)

 

Want to improve the country? Improve the government. Think you can do it with your vote? Think again. If it hasn't become patently obvious that our votes don't mean a tinkers damn any more, then you need to crawl out from under your rock, and take a look around. Things need to change, but, attempting to work within the system is doomed to failure before you even start, as the only folks that have the ability to change anything, are the very same folks that benefit the most from NOT changing anything. Term limits? Salary caps? Campaign finance reform? None of that will happen under the current conditions. Much as Trump may want to do some of it, congress won't pass it.

 

Except for one annoying little detail that keeps tickling the back of my mind. In America, the people are the government. It says so right here on the label.

 

What it says on the label, and what's actually in the bottle, are two entirely different things. "The people" haven't counted much to the government for quite some time now.

 

I agree in principle with PA...but practice and theory are distinctly separate realities. Out of the 535 people we have sent to Congress how many would one estimate are there for altruistic purposes? Given the constant flow of federal indictments for corruption / malfeasance every year since I can recall. My bet is that, there is a comfortable minority that went to DC to line their pockets rather than serve the nation. So in that sense I agree with HY's deep skepticism about who runs the country.

 

 

What's even more pathetic to me is they don't even line their pockets with much, relatively speaking. They're very cheap. A 25k donation here, a 50k one here, a house here.. 100k on a very good day. They're a complete joke compared to actual wealth.. but they sell themselves and our country out for these small numbers.

 

I could almost respect an expensive prostitute. But these are the elite's equivalent of crackheads.

 

500,000 dollar speaking fees?

[sunshinenbrick]

I think they are more than likely puppets with little to no actual wealth, of course not all of them as some will also have 'lineage' or become a bigger fish along with the bankers and other 'big business' owners.

 

...all the while the cats quietly remain to be seen or heard.