We have a name! And a Q&A session with Tannin regarding the new mod manager.

[Thandal]

To be fair, it's been a year. Not really a surprise that people are keen to get more than "it'll be ready when it's ready".

 

You're right. It's no surprise that people are expecting a free product on their schedule, and not that of the folk actually working on it. We want it when we want it and it's up to Dark0ne to deliver it when we want it. I mean who does he think he is anyway, the Site Owner?

[ozoak]

Steady on. No need to be snarky, honestly, I don't think I was.

Tannin was brought on over 12 months ago, do you really think it's a sense of entitlement behind people enquiring about updates at this point?

Time may be wibbly wobbly, sure, and so where do you draw a line and say "enquiries before now are going to be met with ridicule, enquiries after will be met with reasonable response"?

Early demands of "When will it be ready!?" definitely reeked of entitlement, a year on it would be naive to think people wouldn't want some updates.

 

Possible that the real problem is people were told it was happening. We're all game aficionados, right? so we're likely all aware of the missteps made by games studios in the past.

How many studios have got themselves on the wrong side of community, or fans, by announcing something too soon and _then_ keeping tight lipped about progress. There's certain combinations of Announce, Update & Release that work and others that don't.

Don't announce + no updates + release after however long you want = works

Announce + updates + release after however long you want = works [more or less]

Announce + no updates + release after however long you want = doesn't work

Announce + no updates + release after a relatively short period = works

 

Humans understand things take time, more so when things are explained. Just sayin'.

And because I may have to, based on the reaction to my last post, let me be completely crystal clear:

* I do not expect to be told a release date on anyones schedule other than the developers working on it

* I am not demanding anything

 

The people wanting screenshots, updates on progress, whatever else? They're your super-fans. They're not asking because they're demanding toddlers (probably) but because they're passionate (probably).

But hey, each to their own, right?

[Thandal]

Possible that the real problem is people were told it was happening. We're all game aficionados, right? so we're likely all aware of the missteps made by games studios in the past.

How many studios have got themselves on the wrong side of community, or fans, by announcing something too soon and _then_ keeping tight lipped about progress. There's certain combinations of Announce, Update & Release that work and others that don't.

Don't announce + no updates + release after however long you want = works

Announce + updates + release after however long you want = works [more or less]

Announce + no updates + release after however long you want = doesn't work

Announce + no updates + release after a relatively short period = works

 

Two observations:

 

1. Those "missteps" are called that because they are one of the reasons fewer people ended-up buying the things those studios are selling. But how many studios give away the results of their work? Will there be significant (any?) defections to some other mod site if Vortex is never released? Will that impact the Nexus' bottom-line? Its stockholders? The entire calculus is different, yet (some) people are behaving in ways, and making demands, as if they were customers buying a product.

 

2. Your list leaves out the most common error about product announcements: Announce a (projected) availability date, then miss it. :laugh:

[ozoak]

 

Possible that the real problem is people were told it was happening. We're all game aficionados, right? so we're likely all aware of the missteps made by games studios in the past.

How many studios have got themselves on the wrong side of community, or fans, by announcing something too soon and _then_ keeping tight lipped about progress. There's certain combinations of Announce, Update & Release that work and others that don't.

Don't announce + no updates + release after however long you want = works

Announce + updates + release after however long you want = works [more or less]

Announce + no updates + release after however long you want = doesn't work

Announce + no updates + release after a relatively short period = works

 

Two observations:

 

1. Those "missteps" are called that because they are one of the reasons fewer people ended-up buying the things those studios are selling. But how many studios give away the results of their work? Will there be significant (any?) defections to some other mod site if Vortex is never released? Will that impact the Nexus' bottom-line? Its stockholders? The entire calculus is different, yet (some) people are behaving in ways, and making demands, as if they were customers buying a product.

 

2. Your list leaves out the most common error about product announcements: Announce a (projected) availability date, then miss it. :laugh:

 

 

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but you keep throwing the words "free" around, as though Nexus runs like a public interest charity: I was under the impression that Nexus drives incomes for a not insignificant number of people who now operate out of an office. So which is it, Vortex is a gift to the community out of the kindness of the charities heart, or a product offering that is hoped will bolster interest in Nexus and by extension additional revenue? I can't believe it's the first, and no-one would question your right, even your obligation, to provide services that help grow the business, but if it's not a charity then it's a _product_.

 

And you misread the entire list. I didn't say announce a release date. Just announce. As in announce a product.

 

Which people are demanding? (recently)

Why so angry? I just don't get how s***ing on people asking polite or tongue in cheek humorous enquiries into the state of it is a good thing.

 

ed: sorry, it just blows me away how angry all the Nexus staff get when people ask (largely politely I might add) for some kind of insight into the progress. This thread doesn't get a lot of activity, the demanding questions have become few and far between, the people asking for updates now are just intrigued as to how it's going. As I said: they're your super-fans. Why bite their heads off when they just ask "how's it going?"

Edited September 15, 2017 by ozoak

[Thandal]

<snip>

Which people are demanding? (recently)

Why so angry? I just don't get how s***ing on people asking polite or tongue in cheek humorous enquiries into the state of it is a good thing.

 

Not angry, just disappointed that people don't read what's already been posted. Instead we see, "It's been a year and you haven't told us when we can have our new (free) toy..." (Even though there have been new "announcements" whenever there was something to announce.)

 

And I know your list didn't include "release date" announcements that later have to be walked back, but that is a huge "misstep". And one the Nexus is avoiding. :cool:

[ozoak]

 

<snip>

Which people are demanding? (recently)

Why so angry? I just don't get how s***ing on people asking polite or tongue in cheek humorous enquiries into the state of it is a good thing.

 

 

Not angry, just disappointed that people don't read what's already been posted. Instead we see, "It's been a year and you haven't told us when we can have our new (free) toy..."

 

 

"It's been a year and you haven't told us when we can have our new (free) toy..." ??

 

I'm sorry, who asked that and how far back do you have to go to find it?

 

I thought I made a point of being crystal clear, so again:

"How's it going?" != "What date will I get my free toy on?"

 

ed: Look, I didn't post to pick a fight, I didn't. 1 person saying they wanted a 'release countdown' (and I took that as tongue in cheek humour, nothing more), may be annoying.

Any chance I could get a concession to you saying you understand people are interested in knowing how it's going? :)

 

Hey, look, I work in software, you're probably surrounded by lots of users who also do - we get not publishing a launch date until you're absolutely 100% ready to do so.

But come on, by the same token we know how consumers (whether picking up a free product or paying for one) like to know what's going on. You get that, right?

Edited September 15, 2017 by ozoak

[Thandal]

Some examples, (I didn't go through all 38 pages):

 

... just wondering though are we any closer to a solid ETA? Or any chance for a follow up discussing were you guys are currently at? Thanks :smile:

 

Just looking for an update on what is going on.

 

...

I stumbled onto this Thread, Not enough Said about VORTEX on the Nexus,

Especially a Release Countdown Timer.

...

And Please give us a ET for a public release of Vortex.

 

And then yours...

 

I didn't say that people were being rude. Neither is the child in the back seat asking, "Are we there yet?"

[ozoak]

haha lol no, the kid in the back asking "are we there yet?" over and over? definitely rude :D

I don't think the questions have been overwhelming, but I do get your position, plus: it's your pitch, your rules :)

 

Could I offer a suggestion though, in good faith? If there are going to be no progress updates alongside there being (the totally justifiable) lack of release date, then there really is nothing to discuss.

It might be good form to just politely close this and post a Vortex FAQ/Announcements thread and pin it. Plonk all the relevant info to date in to it, and make it closed to all except staff/mods.

 

I think these threads have given people the impression that there will be discussion about it, I mean it's a forum so perhaps that's not unexpected.

But if each time there is an enquiry which would otherwise open a door to discussion about progress and it is simply shut down with a "it'll be ready when it's ready" response, they may be doing more harm than good (in terms of impressions left). Just a thought from a community management perspective, absolutely meant as constructive advice.

[Sycamore]

Maybe there are some old webcams laying around that you guys could hook up in some work areas or other interesting spots so we could watch live and maybe listen to what's going on with our favorite piece of software. Kind of like a surf cam... you could call it the

 

NEXUSVORTEX CAM

 

:)

Edited September 16, 2017 by Sycamore

[DoctaSax]

Ozoak makes some good points. At this stage, merely asking for a status update is natural, and treating "how's it going?" as "get a move on already" is being overly defensive. Considering Vortex is meant to appeal to the entire Nexus membership, the level of pressure from the handful of requests for news in the past months is hardly something to complain about.