The Creation Club - How to make it helpful to the Modding community, not destroy it

[MrJoseCuervo]

 

 

 

 

 

 

You think being motivated by money is bad for creativity? The movie, book, video game and music industry says otherwise. Every artist want to profit from their creative work, trying to shame mod authors for desiring to sell their work is beyond petty, selfish and not least unrealistic. I can not begin to fathom how someone believes it's the other way around. Stop basing arguments on a pipe dream and instead face the uncomfortable truth; mods belongs to the mod author and you have no say in how it's destributed or if it's distributed at all.

 

Are we living in the same reality? The arts in this day and age are sheet. Everything is done by a formula to maximize profits. Movies are judged by how much cash they rake in. How many Mummy, Beauty and the Beast remakes do you need to see? Don't even get me started on music...

 

Inject money into mods and have them filtered , curated and Bethesda-ized , what do you think will happen? Do you think they will push the envelope and come up with something outside of the formula? They have systematically dumbed down the franchise for maximum profitability. I don't think they are capable of being innovative anymore, I believe this is part of the reason they want to hijack our community.

 

It takes modders like Kinggath to fix their profit driven after thought of a settlement system. It takes the Unofficial Patch crew to touch up and fix bugs that Bethesda to this day will not fix. Its all about money now with them. The artistry of gaming only exists for the grunts doing the actual art and even they are stifled and their creativity forced into a mold.

 

 

You can be a negative pessimist to your hearts content, completely neglecting all the great works of art that has been made just to make it seem like you got a point. I need only point to the fact that you're here discussing video games and enjoying all types of media and it should be clear as day that you're an unrealistic hypocrite only pushing an agenda.

 

So to answer your question; no, we don't live in the same reality.

 

 

I am just dealing in facts, I don't think any thinking person would disagree that we are in a Dark Age when it comes to artistic expression.. I am sure there are plenty who think Harry Potter is a great work of literature and that Kanye West is indeed the greatest artist of all time, but I would hope they are a minority..

 

Bottom line, our modding community has nothing to gain from the intrusion of Bethesda. They have shown us what they are offering. $1 weapons and $5 Crab Armor. Until I see something else from them I will be a pessimist because they have a history to live down.

 

"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...I won't get fooled again." - GW Bush

 

Our community is releasing incredible content now without their help. None of you sellouts has yet to say what exactly the community has to gain from this. Its all about what Modders wallets will gain.

 

 

You're confusing facts with your own personal views and hyperbole opinions. You might be unwilling to look at alle the positives but I think it's sad that you'd go as far as wanting to destroy something so potetially rewarding - not only for mod authors but for users too - just out of spite. And what exactly are we risking if it fails? Nothing. But you're not afraid of failure, you're afraid of paid mods succeeding. Because in your mind that translates to just the same quality of mods except now you got to pay for them, as if having to pay for work is a legitimate reason to be against it in the first place. But if we're being realistic rather than a bunch of pessimistic doomsayers it is a whole lot more likely that money and the responsbility it intails will lead to higher quality mods developed by more professional "modders" who would never work for free.

 

This is the only fact that matters: You are entitled to nothing.

 

"Our community" as you put it will be whatever we as individual modders make it out to be and only a hypocrite would pretend to dictate what is best for us as a collective. Paid mods is only a choice that each individual mod author can choose to pursue, and if you're against people making a choice then you should seriously reconsider your position.

 

Yes and what are the benefits for users? We get the privilege of getting fleeced by Bethesda? Please lay it out for me. You can't because there are no benefits.

 

Yes there are. More official content, yes, that you have to pay for, that does not eat into your mod space, doesn't come with any restrictions, and, for the PS4 crowd, can use external assets. It is, quite literally, Official DLC. No one is forcing you to buy it, no one is even forcing you to look at it. However, there just might be some really good content made available, for small price. There really is NO downside here. If you don't want the content, don't buy it. Did you buy Horse Armor for Oblivion? When you didn't, did a beth employee come to your house, and put a bullet in the back of your head? No? Ok, so, where is the problem?

 

 

We have great content now. Why should PS4 users have to pay for content that everyone else has? Why should other users have to pay so Ps4 Users can get content? Shouldn't Bethesda be eating that if they want it so bad? They are the ones who promised them content, not me.

 

And I saw no evidence of DLC. I saw swords and armor for sale. That's it. They didn't even bother to try and provide a scale of DLC. I think we saw exactly what we are getting. Paid mods to mainly fleece Ps4 users but it will hit us all.

[MrJoseCuervo]

 

If you think Creation Club is going to decimate the free modding community or result in you having to pay for every single one of your 250 mods, then I'm assuming you haven't read the Creation Club's faq before you started spouting apocalyptic bulls***. The alternative is that you're just a complete idiot.

 

Let's just look at the logistics of what it means to become a Creation Club member. You have to apply, just as you would for a job. You have to prove the quality of your work; you'll be working alongside professional developers and expected to live up to their standards. You have to pitch every product to the company. You have to convince them to fund it. You have to go through multiple stages of QA and approval. You have to follow professional rules and etiquette that casual modders don't have to folllow. In short, it is going to be an extreme minority of mods that end up in the Creation Club's store. Mods by authors with a small or unimpressive portfolio (that is to say, most modders,) mods that aren't lore friendly, mods that use inadequately licensed modders resources (like SKSE or furniture packs,) mods that only have niche appeal, mods that Bethesda just doesn't like (including, most likely, mods that fix Bethesda's mistakes) are still going to be free because they won't make it through Creation Club.

 

What does that mean? It means that only a handful of modders are even going to make it into Creation Club, and then only a handful of their mods will make it through. Creation Club might poach several of our best modders (you know, the ones that we're always saying "I'd totally pay money for your work" about anyway) but many will continue to do free mods simply because the hobbyist workstyle suits them better. The rest of us regular jackoffs who only make player homes and weapon rebalances couldn't get into Creation Club even if we wanted to so we're still going to be here at the Nexus doing business as usual. The only difference is that we'll have the option of buying some really awesome mods that rarely get made on Nexus because they're too difficult/time consuming for the average hobbyist modder to produce.

Furthermore, Bethesda said explicitly that all the mods you already have will never be paid because they're only accepting completely new, original content made specifically through the Creation Club. So unless you're saying you're going to uninstall all 250 of the mods you already have and replace them with mods from the Creation Club (why would you do that unless Creation Club's mods are substantially better than the free versions?) you're not going to be paying for all of your mods.

Thank You! Someone that 'gets it'.

 

CC is NOT going to be the end of free modding. It simply is. not. It can't be. Not only for the reasons pointed out by the destroyed spacecraft, but also because without free mods, beths pool of potential authors immediately dries up.

 

I will grant that beth has made some less-than-appealing decisions in the past, but, I don't find it very likely that they are really looking to fall on their own swords.

 

 

And what is keeping them bound to this? They have lied over promised many many times. There is no reason for me to believe their words, especially when it doesn't match what they present to the public.

[Livionia]

I lost what the purpose of this thread was supposed to be. I understand that the CC may and I stress may cause issues for the community as a whole but we need to withhold judgment until we see the products and how they are presented, the price point, and whether the modders are adequately compensated for their work.

 

Bethesda Softworks and Zenemax have a tendancy of shitting the bed and BGS is not known for super polished end products but I would prefer wait and see what comes from this plan they have given us next to no information about. Every time I see someone say to look at the faq they have given us it really tells us little about the produce that CC is or will be. I have a fair amount of respect for Pete Hines and with the circles that he is talking and tweeting about the program I don't think he has any faith in the program.

 

I want the modders to be compensated in someway that resembles adequate but I don't trust BS or Zenemax.

 

I do understand that this is the only way to get into Sony's walled garden of no new assets in the free mods, that being said I don't trust BS or Zenemax but I will hope for the best.

[Alexotero1219]

I lost what the purpose of this thread was supposed to be. I understand that the CC may and I stress may cause issues for the community as a whole but we need to withhold judgment until we see the products and how they are presented, the price point, and whether the modders are adequately compensated for their work.

 

Bethesda Softworks and Zenemax have a tendancy of s***ing the bed and BGS is not known for super polished end products but I would prefer wait and see what comes from this plan they have given us next to no information about. Every time I see someone say to look at the faq they have given us it really tells us little about the produce that CC is or will be. I have a fair amount of respect for Pete Hines and with the circles that he is talking and tweeting about the program I don't think he has any faith in the program.

 

I want the modders to be compensated in someway that resembles adequate but I don't trust BS or Zenemax.

 

I do understand that this is the only way to get into Sony's walled garden of no new assets in the free mods, that being said I don't trust BS or Zenemax but I will hope for the best.

we already waited and saw. It was called the steam curated workshop.

[TheSpaceShuttleChallenger]

 

 

Yes and what are the benefits for users? We get the privilege of getting fleeced by Bethesda? Please lay it out for me. You can't because there are no benefits.

 

 

Better quality mods, obviously. Right now, the free modding community offers oceans of absolute crap with the occasional excellent mod floating through it, and for all that we have thousands of mods, the choices of *quality* mods are often pretty spare, especially when it comes to mods that require more advance skills like complex coding or sculpting. For example, I don't know if you noticed but nobody is finishing SKSE. Many of our best and brightest modders end up quitting because they just don't have the time and energy for a hobby that's so taxing and gives them nothing in return. Several other extremely skilled coders and modellers simply don't start modding to begin with because they know their work is worth more than nothing. Payment for people who work their asses off gives them incentive to stay on board, and gives incentive for highly skilled creators who aren't interested in slave labor to give modding a shot.

Not to mention that Creation Club mods will have quality assurance, meaning less time sifting through mods or installing and uninstalling trying to find a mod that actually does what it's supposed to do, and maybe for once we won't have to worry about a bad mod completely ruining our saves.

 

And please, having to pay a buck for a product that a skilled worker spent an entire workweek making is not 'getting fleeced.' If anything, demanding highly-skilled, labour-intensive products for free is fleecing modders.

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You think being motivated by money is bad for creativity? The movie, book, video game and music industry says otherwise. Every artist want to profit from their creative work, trying to shame mod authors for desiring to sell their work is beyond petty, selfish and not least unrealistic. I can not begin to fathom how someone believes it's the other way around. Stop basing arguments on a pipe dream and instead face the uncomfortable truth; mods belongs to the mod author and you have no say in how it's destributed or if it's distributed at all.

 

Are we living in the same reality? The arts in this day and age are sheet. Everything is done by a formula to maximize profits. Movies are judged by how much cash they rake in. How many Mummy, Beauty and the Beast remakes do you need to see? Don't even get me started on music...

 

Inject money into mods and have them filtered , curated and Bethesda-ized , what do you think will happen? Do you think they will push the envelope and come up with something outside of the formula? They have systematically dumbed down the franchise for maximum profitability. I don't think they are capable of being innovative anymore, I believe this is part of the reason they want to hijack our community.

 

It takes modders like Kinggath to fix their profit driven after thought of a settlement system. It takes the Unofficial Patch crew to touch up and fix bugs that Bethesda to this day will not fix. Its all about money now with them. The artistry of gaming only exists for the grunts doing the actual art and even they are stifled and their creativity forced into a mold.

 

 

You can be a negative pessimist to your hearts content, completely neglecting all the great works of art that has been made just to make it seem like you got a point. I need only point to the fact that you're here discussing video games and enjoying all types of media and it should be clear as day that you're an unrealistic hypocrite only pushing an agenda.

 

So to answer your question; no, we don't live in the same reality.

 

 

I am just dealing in facts, I don't think any thinking person would disagree that we are in a Dark Age when it comes to artistic expression.. I am sure there are plenty who think Harry Potter is a great work of literature and that Kanye West is indeed the greatest artist of all time, but I would hope they are a minority..

 

Bottom line, our modding community has nothing to gain from the intrusion of Bethesda. They have shown us what they are offering. $1 weapons and $5 Crab Armor. Until I see something else from them I will be a pessimist because they have a history to live down.

 

"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...I won't get fooled again." - GW Bush

 

Our community is releasing incredible content now without their help. None of you sellouts has yet to say what exactly the community has to gain from this. Its all about what Modders wallets will gain.

 

 

You're confusing facts with your own personal views and hyperbole opinions. You might be unwilling to look at alle the positives but I think it's sad that you'd go as far as wanting to destroy something so potetially rewarding - not only for mod authors but for users too - just out of spite. And what exactly are we risking if it fails? Nothing. But you're not afraid of failure, you're afraid of paid mods succeeding. Because in your mind that translates to just the same quality of mods except now you got to pay for them, as if having to pay for work is a legitimate reason to be against it in the first place. But if we're being realistic rather than a bunch of pessimistic doomsayers it is a whole lot more likely that money and the responsbility it intails will lead to higher quality mods developed by more professional "modders" who would never work for free.

 

This is the only fact that matters: You are entitled to nothing.

 

"Our community" as you put it will be whatever we as individual modders make it out to be and only a hypocrite would pretend to dictate what is best for us as a collective. Paid mods is only a choice that each individual mod author can choose to pursue, and if you're against people making a choice then you should seriously reconsider your position.

 

Yes and what are the benefits for users? We get the privilege of getting fleeced by Bethesda? Please lay it out for me. You can't because there are no benefits.

 

Yes there are. More official content, yes, that you have to pay for, that does not eat into your mod space, doesn't come with any restrictions, and, for the PS4 crowd, can use external assets. It is, quite literally, Official DLC. No one is forcing you to buy it, no one is even forcing you to look at it. However, there just might be some really good content made available, for small price. There really is NO downside here. If you don't want the content, don't buy it. Did you buy Horse Armor for Oblivion? When you didn't, did a beth employee come to your house, and put a bullet in the back of your head? No? Ok, so, where is the problem?

 

 

We have great content now. Why should PS4 users have to pay for content that everyone else has? Why should other users have to pay so Ps4 Users can get content? Shouldn't Bethesda be eating that if they want it so bad? They are the ones who promised them content, not me.

 

And I saw no evidence of DLC. I saw swords and armor for sale. That's it. They didn't even bother to try and provide a scale of DLC. I think we saw exactly what we are getting. Paid mods to mainly fleece Ps4 users but it will hit us all.

 

 

PS4 folks are being screwed by Sony. Not beth, not zenimax, not mod authors. They should know exactly who to blame by now. And no one at beth works for free. They are in business to make money. Not give stuff away for free. Once again, that is on Sony.

 

That was a demo. Likely not even 'real' content. And even if that is all 'we' get, how does it hurt anyone at all? If the PS4 folks want it, they can get it, if you don't want it, you don't have to.

 

 

 

If you think Creation Club is going to decimate the free modding community or result in you having to pay for every single one of your 250 mods, then I'm assuming you haven't read the Creation Club's faq before you started spouting apocalyptic bulls***. The alternative is that you're just a complete idiot.

 

Let's just look at the logistics of what it means to become a Creation Club member. You have to apply, just as you would for a job. You have to prove the quality of your work; you'll be working alongside professional developers and expected to live up to their standards. You have to pitch every product to the company. You have to convince them to fund it. You have to go through multiple stages of QA and approval. You have to follow professional rules and etiquette that casual modders don't have to folllow. In short, it is going to be an extreme minority of mods that end up in the Creation Club's store. Mods by authors with a small or unimpressive portfolio (that is to say, most modders,) mods that aren't lore friendly, mods that use inadequately licensed modders resources (like SKSE or furniture packs,) mods that only have niche appeal, mods that Bethesda just doesn't like (including, most likely, mods that fix Bethesda's mistakes) are still going to be free because they won't make it through Creation Club.

 

What does that mean? It means that only a handful of modders are even going to make it into Creation Club, and then only a handful of their mods will make it through. Creation Club might poach several of our best modders (you know, the ones that we're always saying "I'd totally pay money for your work" about anyway) but many will continue to do free mods simply because the hobbyist workstyle suits them better. The rest of us regular jackoffs who only make player homes and weapon rebalances couldn't get into Creation Club even if we wanted to so we're still going to be here at the Nexus doing business as usual. The only difference is that we'll have the option of buying some really awesome mods that rarely get made on Nexus because they're too difficult/time consuming for the average hobbyist modder to produce.

Furthermore, Bethesda said explicitly that all the mods you already have will never be paid because they're only accepting completely new, original content made specifically through the Creation Club. So unless you're saying you're going to uninstall all 250 of the mods you already have and replace them with mods from the Creation Club (why would you do that unless Creation Club's mods are substantially better than the free versions?) you're not going to be paying for all of your mods.

Thank You! Someone that 'gets it'.

 

CC is NOT going to be the end of free modding. It simply is. not. It can't be. Not only for the reasons pointed out by the destroyed spacecraft, but also because without free mods, beths pool of potential authors immediately dries up.

 

I will grant that beth has made some less-than-appealing decisions in the past, but, I don't find it very likely that they are really looking to fall on their own swords.

 

 

And what is keeping them bound to this? They have lied over promised many many times. There is no reason for me to believe their words, especially when it doesn't match what they present to the public.

 

 

I will grant that they don't have the best rep, but, you CAN bet that they are going to do what is in their own best interests. If they dispose of free modding, their labor pool immediately dries up, and CC becomes useless. Do you really think they are that stupid?

 

 

 

I lost what the purpose of this thread was supposed to be. I understand that the CC may and I stress may cause issues for the community as a whole but we need to withhold judgment until we see the products and how they are presented, the price point, and whether the modders are adequately compensated for their work.

 

Bethesda Softworks and Zenemax have a tendancy of s***ing the bed and BGS is not known for super polished end products but I would prefer wait and see what comes from this plan they have given us next to no information about. Every time I see someone say to look at the faq they have given us it really tells us little about the produce that CC is or will be. I have a fair amount of respect for Pete Hines and with the circles that he is talking and tweeting about the program I don't think he has any faith in the program.

 

I want the modders to be compensated in someway that resembles adequate but I don't trust BS or Zenemax.

 

I do understand that this is the only way to get into Sony's walled garden of no new assets in the free mods, that being said I don't trust BS or Zenemax but I will hope for the best.

we already waited and saw. It was called the steam curated workshop.

 

Totally different situation here. The steam workshop was open to anyone that wanted to upload their version of Horse Armor. CC is going to have an EXTREMELY limited participation rate. Less than .1% of mod authors will likely ever be involved. That leaves the other 99.9% cranking out free stuff.

[Alexotero1219]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You think being motivated by money is bad for creativity? The movie, book, video game and music industry says otherwise. Every artist want to profit from their creative work, trying to shame mod authors for desiring to sell their work is beyond petty, selfish and not least unrealistic. I can not begin to fathom how someone believes it's the other way around. Stop basing arguments on a pipe dream and instead face the uncomfortable truth; mods belongs to the mod author and you have no say in how it's destributed or if it's distributed at all.

 

Are we living in the same reality? The arts in this day and age are sheet. Everything is done by a formula to maximize profits. Movies are judged by how much cash they rake in. How many Mummy, Beauty and the Beast remakes do you need to see? Don't even get me started on music...

 

Inject money into mods and have them filtered , curated and Bethesda-ized , what do you think will happen? Do you think they will push the envelope and come up with something outside of the formula? They have systematically dumbed down the franchise for maximum profitability. I don't think they are capable of being innovative anymore, I believe this is part of the reason they want to hijack our community.

 

It takes modders like Kinggath to fix their profit driven after thought of a settlement system. It takes the Unofficial Patch crew to touch up and fix bugs that Bethesda to this day will not fix. Its all about money now with them. The artistry of gaming only exists for the grunts doing the actual art and even they are stifled and their creativity forced into a mold.

 

 

You can be a negative pessimist to your hearts content, completely neglecting all the great works of art that has been made just to make it seem like you got a point. I need only point to the fact that you're here discussing video games and enjoying all types of media and it should be clear as day that you're an unrealistic hypocrite only pushing an agenda.

 

So to answer your question; no, we don't live in the same reality.

 

 

I am just dealing in facts, I don't think any thinking person would disagree that we are in a Dark Age when it comes to artistic expression.. I am sure there are plenty who think Harry Potter is a great work of literature and that Kanye West is indeed the greatest artist of all time, but I would hope they are a minority..

 

Bottom line, our modding community has nothing to gain from the intrusion of Bethesda. They have shown us what they are offering. $1 weapons and $5 Crab Armor. Until I see something else from them I will be a pessimist because they have a history to live down.

 

"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...I won't get fooled again." - GW Bush

 

Our community is releasing incredible content now without their help. None of you sellouts has yet to say what exactly the community has to gain from this. Its all about what Modders wallets will gain.

 

 

You're confusing facts with your own personal views and hyperbole opinions. You might be unwilling to look at alle the positives but I think it's sad that you'd go as far as wanting to destroy something so potetially rewarding - not only for mod authors but for users too - just out of spite. And what exactly are we risking if it fails? Nothing. But you're not afraid of failure, you're afraid of paid mods succeeding. Because in your mind that translates to just the same quality of mods except now you got to pay for them, as if having to pay for work is a legitimate reason to be against it in the first place. But if we're being realistic rather than a bunch of pessimistic doomsayers it is a whole lot more likely that money and the responsbility it intails will lead to higher quality mods developed by more professional "modders" who would never work for free.

 

This is the only fact that matters: You are entitled to nothing.

 

"Our community" as you put it will be whatever we as individual modders make it out to be and only a hypocrite would pretend to dictate what is best for us as a collective. Paid mods is only a choice that each individual mod author can choose to pursue, and if you're against people making a choice then you should seriously reconsider your position.

 

Yes and what are the benefits for users? We get the privilege of getting fleeced by Bethesda? Please lay it out for me. You can't because there are no benefits.

 

Yes there are. More official content, yes, that you have to pay for, that does not eat into your mod space, doesn't come with any restrictions, and, for the PS4 crowd, can use external assets. It is, quite literally, Official DLC. No one is forcing you to buy it, no one is even forcing you to look at it. However, there just might be some really good content made available, for small price. There really is NO downside here. If you don't want the content, don't buy it. Did you buy Horse Armor for Oblivion? When you didn't, did a beth employee come to your house, and put a bullet in the back of your head? No? Ok, so, where is the problem?

 

 

We have great content now. Why should PS4 users have to pay for content that everyone else has? Why should other users have to pay so Ps4 Users can get content? Shouldn't Bethesda be eating that if they want it so bad? They are the ones who promised them content, not me.

 

And I saw no evidence of DLC. I saw swords and armor for sale. That's it. They didn't even bother to try and provide a scale of DLC. I think we saw exactly what we are getting. Paid mods to mainly fleece Ps4 users but it will hit us all.

 

 

PS4 folks are being screwed by Sony. Not beth, not zenimax, not mod authors. They should know exactly who to blame by now. And no one at beth works for free. They are in business to make money. Not give stuff away for free. Once again, that is on Sony.

 

That was a demo. Likely not even 'real' content. And even if that is all 'we' get, how does it hurt anyone at all? If the PS4 folks want it, they can get it, if you don't want it, you don't have to.

 

 

 

If you think Creation Club is going to decimate the free modding community or result in you having to pay for every single one of your 250 mods, then I'm assuming you haven't read the Creation Club's faq before you started spouting apocalyptic bulls***. The alternative is that you're just a complete idiot.

 

Let's just look at the logistics of what it means to become a Creation Club member. You have to apply, just as you would for a job. You have to prove the quality of your work; you'll be working alongside professional developers and expected to live up to their standards. You have to pitch every product to the company. You have to convince them to fund it. You have to go through multiple stages of QA and approval. You have to follow professional rules and etiquette that casual modders don't have to folllow. In short, it is going to be an extreme minority of mods that end up in the Creation Club's store. Mods by authors with a small or unimpressive portfolio (that is to say, most modders,) mods that aren't lore friendly, mods that use inadequately licensed modders resources (like SKSE or furniture packs,) mods that only have niche appeal, mods that Bethesda just doesn't like (including, most likely, mods that fix Bethesda's mistakes) are still going to be free because they won't make it through Creation Club.

 

What does that mean? It means that only a handful of modders are even going to make it into Creation Club, and then only a handful of their mods will make it through. Creation Club might poach several of our best modders (you know, the ones that we're always saying "I'd totally pay money for your work" about anyway) but many will continue to do free mods simply because the hobbyist workstyle suits them better. The rest of us regular jackoffs who only make player homes and weapon rebalances couldn't get into Creation Club even if we wanted to so we're still going to be here at the Nexus doing business as usual. The only difference is that we'll have the option of buying some really awesome mods that rarely get made on Nexus because they're too difficult/time consuming for the average hobbyist modder to produce.

Furthermore, Bethesda said explicitly that all the mods you already have will never be paid because they're only accepting completely new, original content made specifically through the Creation Club. So unless you're saying you're going to uninstall all 250 of the mods you already have and replace them with mods from the Creation Club (why would you do that unless Creation Club's mods are substantially better than the free versions?) you're not going to be paying for all of your mods.

Thank You! Someone that 'gets it'.

 

CC is NOT going to be the end of free modding. It simply is. not. It can't be. Not only for the reasons pointed out by the destroyed spacecraft, but also because without free mods, beths pool of potential authors immediately dries up.

 

I will grant that beth has made some less-than-appealing decisions in the past, but, I don't find it very likely that they are really looking to fall on their own swords.

 

 

And what is keeping them bound to this? They have lied over promised many many times. There is no reason for me to believe their words, especially when it doesn't match what they present to the public.

 

 

I will grant that they don't have the best rep, but, you CAN bet that they are going to do what is in their own best interests. If they dispose of free modding, their labor pool immediately dries up, and CC becomes useless. Do you really think they are that stupid?

 

 

 

I lost what the purpose of this thread was supposed to be. I understand that the CC may and I stress may cause issues for the community as a whole but we need to withhold judgment until we see the products and how they are presented, the price point, and whether the modders are adequately compensated for their work.

 

Bethesda Softworks and Zenemax have a tendancy of s***ing the bed and BGS is not known for super polished end products but I would prefer wait and see what comes from this plan they have given us next to no information about. Every time I see someone say to look at the faq they have given us it really tells us little about the produce that CC is or will be. I have a fair amount of respect for Pete Hines and with the circles that he is talking and tweeting about the program I don't think he has any faith in the program.

 

I want the modders to be compensated in someway that resembles adequate but I don't trust BS or Zenemax.

 

I do understand that this is the only way to get into Sony's walled garden of no new assets in the free mods, that being said I don't trust BS or Zenemax but I will hope for the best.

we already waited and saw. It was called the steam curated workshop.

 

Totally different situation here. The steam workshop was open to anyone that wanted to upload their version of Horse Armor. CC is going to have an EXTREMELY limited participation rate. Less than .1% of mod authors will likely ever be involved. That leaves the other 99.9% cranking out free stuff.

 

If you'll recall most people were not upset because anyone could upload to the curated workshop. Most people were upset because they were being charged for food retextures and bow mods. The core issues haven't changed in the slightest honestly. At least it doesn't seem like they have at all.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Alexotero1219

[HeyYou]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You think being motivated by money is bad for creativity? The movie, book, video game and music industry says otherwise. Every artist want to profit from their creative work, trying to shame mod authors for desiring to sell their work is beyond petty, selfish and not least unrealistic. I can not begin to fathom how someone believes it's the other way around. Stop basing arguments on a pipe dream and instead face the uncomfortable truth; mods belongs to the mod author and you have no say in how it's destributed or if it's distributed at all.

 

Are we living in the same reality? The arts in this day and age are sheet. Everything is done by a formula to maximize profits. Movies are judged by how much cash they rake in. How many Mummy, Beauty and the Beast remakes do you need to see? Don't even get me started on music...

 

Inject money into mods and have them filtered , curated and Bethesda-ized , what do you think will happen? Do you think they will push the envelope and come up with something outside of the formula? They have systematically dumbed down the franchise for maximum profitability. I don't think they are capable of being innovative anymore, I believe this is part of the reason they want to hijack our community.

 

It takes modders like Kinggath to fix their profit driven after thought of a settlement system. It takes the Unofficial Patch crew to touch up and fix bugs that Bethesda to this day will not fix. Its all about money now with them. The artistry of gaming only exists for the grunts doing the actual art and even they are stifled and their creativity forced into a mold.

 

 

You can be a negative pessimist to your hearts content, completely neglecting all the great works of art that has been made just to make it seem like you got a point. I need only point to the fact that you're here discussing video games and enjoying all types of media and it should be clear as day that you're an unrealistic hypocrite only pushing an agenda.

 

So to answer your question; no, we don't live in the same reality.

 

 

I am just dealing in facts, I don't think any thinking person would disagree that we are in a Dark Age when it comes to artistic expression.. I am sure there are plenty who think Harry Potter is a great work of literature and that Kanye West is indeed the greatest artist of all time, but I would hope they are a minority..

 

Bottom line, our modding community has nothing to gain from the intrusion of Bethesda. They have shown us what they are offering. $1 weapons and $5 Crab Armor. Until I see something else from them I will be a pessimist because they have a history to live down.

 

"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...I won't get fooled again." - GW Bush

 

Our community is releasing incredible content now without their help. None of you sellouts has yet to say what exactly the community has to gain from this. Its all about what Modders wallets will gain.

 

 

You're confusing facts with your own personal views and hyperbole opinions. You might be unwilling to look at alle the positives but I think it's sad that you'd go as far as wanting to destroy something so potetially rewarding - not only for mod authors but for users too - just out of spite. And what exactly are we risking if it fails? Nothing. But you're not afraid of failure, you're afraid of paid mods succeeding. Because in your mind that translates to just the same quality of mods except now you got to pay for them, as if having to pay for work is a legitimate reason to be against it in the first place. But if we're being realistic rather than a bunch of pessimistic doomsayers it is a whole lot more likely that money and the responsbility it intails will lead to higher quality mods developed by more professional "modders" who would never work for free.

 

This is the only fact that matters: You are entitled to nothing.

 

"Our community" as you put it will be whatever we as individual modders make it out to be and only a hypocrite would pretend to dictate what is best for us as a collective. Paid mods is only a choice that each individual mod author can choose to pursue, and if you're against people making a choice then you should seriously reconsider your position.

 

Yes and what are the benefits for users? We get the privilege of getting fleeced by Bethesda? Please lay it out for me. You can't because there are no benefits.

 

Yes there are. More official content, yes, that you have to pay for, that does not eat into your mod space, doesn't come with any restrictions, and, for the PS4 crowd, can use external assets. It is, quite literally, Official DLC. No one is forcing you to buy it, no one is even forcing you to look at it. However, there just might be some really good content made available, for small price. There really is NO downside here. If you don't want the content, don't buy it. Did you buy Horse Armor for Oblivion? When you didn't, did a beth employee come to your house, and put a bullet in the back of your head? No? Ok, so, where is the problem?

 

 

We have great content now. Why should PS4 users have to pay for content that everyone else has? Why should other users have to pay so Ps4 Users can get content? Shouldn't Bethesda be eating that if they want it so bad? They are the ones who promised them content, not me.

 

And I saw no evidence of DLC. I saw swords and armor for sale. That's it. They didn't even bother to try and provide a scale of DLC. I think we saw exactly what we are getting. Paid mods to mainly fleece Ps4 users but it will hit us all.

 

 

PS4 folks are being screwed by Sony. Not beth, not zenimax, not mod authors. They should know exactly who to blame by now. And no one at beth works for free. They are in business to make money. Not give stuff away for free. Once again, that is on Sony.

 

That was a demo. Likely not even 'real' content. And even if that is all 'we' get, how does it hurt anyone at all? If the PS4 folks want it, they can get it, if you don't want it, you don't have to.

 

 

 

If you think Creation Club is going to decimate the free modding community or result in you having to pay for every single one of your 250 mods, then I'm assuming you haven't read the Creation Club's faq before you started spouting apocalyptic bulls***. The alternative is that you're just a complete idiot.

 

Let's just look at the logistics of what it means to become a Creation Club member. You have to apply, just as you would for a job. You have to prove the quality of your work; you'll be working alongside professional developers and expected to live up to their standards. You have to pitch every product to the company. You have to convince them to fund it. You have to go through multiple stages of QA and approval. You have to follow professional rules and etiquette that casual modders don't have to folllow. In short, it is going to be an extreme minority of mods that end up in the Creation Club's store. Mods by authors with a small or unimpressive portfolio (that is to say, most modders,) mods that aren't lore friendly, mods that use inadequately licensed modders resources (like SKSE or furniture packs,) mods that only have niche appeal, mods that Bethesda just doesn't like (including, most likely, mods that fix Bethesda's mistakes) are still going to be free because they won't make it through Creation Club.

 

What does that mean? It means that only a handful of modders are even going to make it into Creation Club, and then only a handful of their mods will make it through. Creation Club might poach several of our best modders (you know, the ones that we're always saying "I'd totally pay money for your work" about anyway) but many will continue to do free mods simply because the hobbyist workstyle suits them better. The rest of us regular jackoffs who only make player homes and weapon rebalances couldn't get into Creation Club even if we wanted to so we're still going to be here at the Nexus doing business as usual. The only difference is that we'll have the option of buying some really awesome mods that rarely get made on Nexus because they're too difficult/time consuming for the average hobbyist modder to produce.

Furthermore, Bethesda said explicitly that all the mods you already have will never be paid because they're only accepting completely new, original content made specifically through the Creation Club. So unless you're saying you're going to uninstall all 250 of the mods you already have and replace them with mods from the Creation Club (why would you do that unless Creation Club's mods are substantially better than the free versions?) you're not going to be paying for all of your mods.

Thank You! Someone that 'gets it'.

 

CC is NOT going to be the end of free modding. It simply is. not. It can't be. Not only for the reasons pointed out by the destroyed spacecraft, but also because without free mods, beths pool of potential authors immediately dries up.

 

I will grant that beth has made some less-than-appealing decisions in the past, but, I don't find it very likely that they are really looking to fall on their own swords.

 

 

And what is keeping them bound to this? They have lied over promised many many times. There is no reason for me to believe their words, especially when it doesn't match what they present to the public.

 

 

I will grant that they don't have the best rep, but, you CAN bet that they are going to do what is in their own best interests. If they dispose of free modding, their labor pool immediately dries up, and CC becomes useless. Do you really think they are that stupid?

 

 

 

I lost what the purpose of this thread was supposed to be. I understand that the CC may and I stress may cause issues for the community as a whole but we need to withhold judgment until we see the products and how they are presented, the price point, and whether the modders are adequately compensated for their work.

 

Bethesda Softworks and Zenemax have a tendancy of s***ing the bed and BGS is not known for super polished end products but I would prefer wait and see what comes from this plan they have given us next to no information about. Every time I see someone say to look at the faq they have given us it really tells us little about the produce that CC is or will be. I have a fair amount of respect for Pete Hines and with the circles that he is talking and tweeting about the program I don't think he has any faith in the program.

 

I want the modders to be compensated in someway that resembles adequate but I don't trust BS or Zenemax.

 

I do understand that this is the only way to get into Sony's walled garden of no new assets in the free mods, that being said I don't trust BS or Zenemax but I will hope for the best.

we already waited and saw. It was called the steam curated workshop.

 

Totally different situation here. The steam workshop was open to anyone that wanted to upload their version of Horse Armor. CC is going to have an EXTREMELY limited participation rate. Less than .1% of mod authors will likely ever be involved. That leaves the other 99.9% cranking out free stuff.

 

If you'll recall most people were not upset because anyone could upload to the curated workshop. Most people were upset because they were being charged for food retextures and bow mods. The core issues haven't changed in the slightest honestly. At least it doesn't seem like they have at all.

 

And anyone paying for those only had themselves to blame.

 

What is so hard to understand about "If you don't want it, DON'T BUY IT."??????? The REASON you were seeing idiocy like that, is BECAUSE it was open to anyone.

 

And as I recall, most folks were upset simply because mod authors could put their mods behind a paywall, regardless of quality, or content. The 'always been free, always should be free' folks raised quite a stink. Gabe folded under pressure. I don't think Beth is going to.

[MrJoseCuervo]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You think being motivated by money is bad for creativity? The movie, book, video game and music industry says otherwise. Every artist want to profit from their creative work, trying to shame mod authors for desiring to sell their work is beyond petty, selfish and not least unrealistic. I can not begin to fathom how someone believes it's the other way around. Stop basing arguments on a pipe dream and instead face the uncomfortable truth; mods belongs to the mod author and you have no say in how it's destributed or if it's distributed at all.

 

Are we living in the same reality? The arts in this day and age are sheet. Everything is done by a formula to maximize profits. Movies are judged by how much cash they rake in. How many Mummy, Beauty and the Beast remakes do you need to see? Don't even get me started on music...

 

Inject money into mods and have them filtered , curated and Bethesda-ized , what do you think will happen? Do you think they will push the envelope and come up with something outside of the formula? They have systematically dumbed down the franchise for maximum profitability. I don't think they are capable of being innovative anymore, I believe this is part of the reason they want to hijack our community.

 

It takes modders like Kinggath to fix their profit driven after thought of a settlement system. It takes the Unofficial Patch crew to touch up and fix bugs that Bethesda to this day will not fix. Its all about money now with them. The artistry of gaming only exists for the grunts doing the actual art and even they are stifled and their creativity forced into a mold.

 

 

You can be a negative pessimist to your hearts content, completely neglecting all the great works of art that has been made just to make it seem like you got a point. I need only point to the fact that you're here discussing video games and enjoying all types of media and it should be clear as day that you're an unrealistic hypocrite only pushing an agenda.

 

So to answer your question; no, we don't live in the same reality.

 

 

I am just dealing in facts, I don't think any thinking person would disagree that we are in a Dark Age when it comes to artistic expression.. I am sure there are plenty who think Harry Potter is a great work of literature and that Kanye West is indeed the greatest artist of all time, but I would hope they are a minority..

 

Bottom line, our modding community has nothing to gain from the intrusion of Bethesda. They have shown us what they are offering. $1 weapons and $5 Crab Armor. Until I see something else from them I will be a pessimist because they have a history to live down.

 

"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice...I won't get fooled again." - GW Bush

 

Our community is releasing incredible content now without their help. None of you sellouts has yet to say what exactly the community has to gain from this. Its all about what Modders wallets will gain.

 

 

You're confusing facts with your own personal views and hyperbole opinions. You might be unwilling to look at alle the positives but I think it's sad that you'd go as far as wanting to destroy something so potetially rewarding - not only for mod authors but for users too - just out of spite. And what exactly are we risking if it fails? Nothing. But you're not afraid of failure, you're afraid of paid mods succeeding. Because in your mind that translates to just the same quality of mods except now you got to pay for them, as if having to pay for work is a legitimate reason to be against it in the first place. But if we're being realistic rather than a bunch of pessimistic doomsayers it is a whole lot more likely that money and the responsbility it intails will lead to higher quality mods developed by more professional "modders" who would never work for free.

 

This is the only fact that matters: You are entitled to nothing.

 

"Our community" as you put it will be whatever we as individual modders make it out to be and only a hypocrite would pretend to dictate what is best for us as a collective. Paid mods is only a choice that each individual mod author can choose to pursue, and if you're against people making a choice then you should seriously reconsider your position.

 

Yes and what are the benefits for users? We get the privilege of getting fleeced by Bethesda? Please lay it out for me. You can't because there are no benefits.

 

Yes there are. More official content, yes, that you have to pay for, that does not eat into your mod space, doesn't come with any restrictions, and, for the PS4 crowd, can use external assets. It is, quite literally, Official DLC. No one is forcing you to buy it, no one is even forcing you to look at it. However, there just might be some really good content made available, for small price. There really is NO downside here. If you don't want the content, don't buy it. Did you buy Horse Armor for Oblivion? When you didn't, did a beth employee come to your house, and put a bullet in the back of your head? No? Ok, so, where is the problem?

 

 

We have great content now. Why should PS4 users have to pay for content that everyone else has? Why should other users have to pay so Ps4 Users can get content? Shouldn't Bethesda be eating that if they want it so bad? They are the ones who promised them content, not me.

 

And I saw no evidence of DLC. I saw swords and armor for sale. That's it. They didn't even bother to try and provide a scale of DLC. I think we saw exactly what we are getting. Paid mods to mainly fleece Ps4 users but it will hit us all.

 

 

PS4 folks are being screwed by Sony. Not beth, not zenimax, not mod authors. They should know exactly who to blame by now. And no one at beth works for free. They are in business to make money. Not give stuff away for free. Once again, that is on Sony.

 

That was a demo. Likely not even 'real' content. And even if that is all 'we' get, how does it hurt anyone at all? If the PS4 folks want it, they can get it, if you don't want it, you don't have to.

 

 

 

If you think Creation Club is going to decimate the free modding community or result in you having to pay for every single one of your 250 mods, then I'm assuming you haven't read the Creation Club's faq before you started spouting apocalyptic bulls***. The alternative is that you're just a complete idiot.

 

Let's just look at the logistics of what it means to become a Creation Club member. You have to apply, just as you would for a job. You have to prove the quality of your work; you'll be working alongside professional developers and expected to live up to their standards. You have to pitch every product to the company. You have to convince them to fund it. You have to go through multiple stages of QA and approval. You have to follow professional rules and etiquette that casual modders don't have to folllow. In short, it is going to be an extreme minority of mods that end up in the Creation Club's store. Mods by authors with a small or unimpressive portfolio (that is to say, most modders,) mods that aren't lore friendly, mods that use inadequately licensed modders resources (like SKSE or furniture packs,) mods that only have niche appeal, mods that Bethesda just doesn't like (including, most likely, mods that fix Bethesda's mistakes) are still going to be free because they won't make it through Creation Club.

 

What does that mean? It means that only a handful of modders are even going to make it into Creation Club, and then only a handful of their mods will make it through. Creation Club might poach several of our best modders (you know, the ones that we're always saying "I'd totally pay money for your work" about anyway) but many will continue to do free mods simply because the hobbyist workstyle suits them better. The rest of us regular jackoffs who only make player homes and weapon rebalances couldn't get into Creation Club even if we wanted to so we're still going to be here at the Nexus doing business as usual. The only difference is that we'll have the option of buying some really awesome mods that rarely get made on Nexus because they're too difficult/time consuming for the average hobbyist modder to produce.

Furthermore, Bethesda said explicitly that all the mods you already have will never be paid because they're only accepting completely new, original content made specifically through the Creation Club. So unless you're saying you're going to uninstall all 250 of the mods you already have and replace them with mods from the Creation Club (why would you do that unless Creation Club's mods are substantially better than the free versions?) you're not going to be paying for all of your mods.

Thank You! Someone that 'gets it'.

 

CC is NOT going to be the end of free modding. It simply is. not. It can't be. Not only for the reasons pointed out by the destroyed spacecraft, but also because without free mods, beths pool of potential authors immediately dries up.

 

I will grant that beth has made some less-than-appealing decisions in the past, but, I don't find it very likely that they are really looking to fall on their own swords.

 

 

And what is keeping them bound to this? They have lied over promised many many times. There is no reason for me to believe their words, especially when it doesn't match what they present to the public.

 

 

I will grant that they don't have the best rep, but, you CAN bet that they are going to do what is in their own best interests. If they dispose of free modding, their labor pool immediately dries up, and CC becomes useless. Do you really think they are that stupid?

 

 

 

I lost what the purpose of this thread was supposed to be. I understand that the CC may and I stress may cause issues for the community as a whole but we need to withhold judgment until we see the products and how they are presented, the price point, and whether the modders are adequately compensated for their work.

 

Bethesda Softworks and Zenemax have a tendancy of s***ing the bed and BGS is not known for super polished end products but I would prefer wait and see what comes from this plan they have given us next to no information about. Every time I see someone say to look at the faq they have given us it really tells us little about the produce that CC is or will be. I have a fair amount of respect for Pete Hines and with the circles that he is talking and tweeting about the program I don't think he has any faith in the program.

 

I want the modders to be compensated in someway that resembles adequate but I don't trust BS or Zenemax.

 

I do understand that this is the only way to get into Sony's walled garden of no new assets in the free mods, that being said I don't trust BS or Zenemax but I will hope for the best.

we already waited and saw. It was called the steam curated workshop.

 

Totally different situation here. The steam workshop was open to anyone that wanted to upload their version of Horse Armor. CC is going to have an EXTREMELY limited participation rate. Less than .1% of mod authors will likely ever be involved. That leaves the other 99.9% cranking out free stuff.

 

If you'll recall most people were not upset because anyone could upload to the curated workshop. Most people were upset because they were being charged for food retextures and bow mods. The core issues haven't changed in the slightest honestly. At least it doesn't seem like they have at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes and what are the benefits for users? We get the privilege of getting fleeced by Bethesda? Please lay it out for me. You can't because there are no benefits.

 

 

Better quality mods, obviously. Right now, the free modding community offers oceans of absolute crap with the occasional excellent mod floating through it, and for all that we have thousands of mods, the choices of *quality* mods are often pretty spare, especially when it comes to mods that require more advance skills like complex coding or sculpting. For example, I don't know if you noticed but nobody is finishing SKSE. Many of our best and brightest modders end up quitting because they just don't have the time and energy for a hobby that's so taxing and gives them nothing in return. Several other extremely skilled coders and modellers simply don't start modding to begin with because they know their work is worth more than nothing. Payment for people who work their asses off gives them incentive to stay on board, and gives incentive for highly skilled creators who aren't interested in slave labor to give modding a shot.

Not to mention that Creation Club mods will have quality assurance, meaning less time sifting through mods or installing and uninstalling trying to find a mod that actually does what it's supposed to do, and maybe for once we won't have to worry about a bad mod completely ruining our saves.

 

And please, having to pay a buck for a product that a skilled worker spent an entire workweek making is not 'getting fleeced.' If anything, demanding highly-skilled, labour-intensive products for free is fleecing modders.

 

 

Better mods huh? I have seen mods that blow away anything Bethesda has done. So I think your one and only positive point that you buried in your paragraph trying to justify modders selling out the community stinks.

 

Fallout 4 and Skyrim will be the last iteration of a Bethesda modding community if CC is successful. they will have the foundation for their paid mods in place for the next game then all they need to do is change the engine they use (Yay!) then not release any Creation Tools (Boo!) then let the fleecing begin.

 

Then its game over.

[HeyYou]

 

Better mods huh? I have seen mods that blow away anything Bethesda has done. So I think your one and only positive point that you buried in your paragraph trying to justify modders selling out the community stinks.

 

Fallout 4 and Skyrim will be the last iteration of a Bethesda modding community if CC is successful. they will have the foundation for their paid mods in place for the next game then all they need to do is change the engine they use (Yay!) then not release any Creation Tools (Boo!) then let the fleecing begin.

 

Then its game over.

 

Yup. Mod authors have put out some truly amazing stuff, all on their own, now, just think what they will be able to do working WITH Beth.

 

Your predictions of gloom and doom have zero basis in fact, and are just your opinion, meaningless. You can no more predict the future than I can.